Poll Regarding Paul & Romans 7
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So he’s telling them This
“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness?
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, ( what chapter sevens last half is about ) but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”( not described in chapter seven )
Romans 6:12-18 KJV
and then the next chapter he’s telling them he has no power to do what’s right even if he wants to and he’s currently rly just a sinner with no control ?
“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness?
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, ( what chapter sevens last half is about ) but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”( not described in chapter seven )
Romans 6:12-18 KJV
and then the next chapter he’s telling them he has no power to do what’s right even if he wants to and he’s currently rly just a sinner with no control ?
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That's right.
Remember the proper type of prayer Jesus gave to His disciples when they asked Him to teach them how to pray?
Luke 11: 2 And He said to them, “When you pray, say:
‘Father, [c]hallowed be Your name.
[d]Your kingdom come.
3‘Give us each day our [e]daily bread.
4‘And forgive us our sins,
For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And do not lead us into temptation.’”
Remember the proper type of prayer Jesus gave to His disciples when they asked Him to teach them how to pray?
Luke 11: 2 And He said to them, “When you pray, say:
‘Father, [c]hallowed be Your name.
[d]Your kingdom come.
3‘Give us each day our [e]daily bread.
4‘And forgive us our sins,
For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And do not lead us into temptation.’”
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Yes agreed Jesus came to call us to the understanding of repentence and life it’s what should be preached much more than it is
“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
Luke 24:44-48 KJV
“But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Matthew 9:13 KJV
Because
“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:5 KJV
And so
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
2 Peter 3:9 KJV
about owul eas t talking about how he was just a sinner and was always winning and could t control it he’s talking about all sinners and how sin go stroke us against our best efforts and explaining why we need to repent and get baptized in Christs name who died for our sins
Paul isn’t saying anything im a sinner and can’t do any better he’s explaining to Christian’s how to become free of sins dominion over us same things Jesus taught
But to your point no one is free from the ability to be tempted just because we believe in Jesus . Even Paul faced temptation constantly . Chapter 7 of Roman’s starts at the beginning of chapter 6 and he’s giving a lengthy speech on deep things inside of mankind’s nature “we’re all in this boat until we convert to christ “ is what he’s getting at the freedom part comes in chapter 8 when he begins telling us what frees us from the body of death he’s been lamenting in seven
“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”
Romans 7:18, 21-24 KJV
We can’t remain on that snare and state or we’re going to die then he goes on to the answers that deliver us
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh;
but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”( that’s what he’s describing in chapter seven the carnality in mankinds members our flesh )
Romans 8:1-8 KJV
Yes we still need to repent if we find ourselves commiting sin I agree but I don’t think that’s what Paul’s saying in chapter seven but it’s only the opinion of a common fool so it’s nothing official lol just my own thought about it
“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
Luke 24:44-48 KJV
“But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Matthew 9:13 KJV
Because
“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:5 KJV
And so
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
2 Peter 3:9 KJV
about owul eas t talking about how he was just a sinner and was always winning and could t control it he’s talking about all sinners and how sin go stroke us against our best efforts and explaining why we need to repent and get baptized in Christs name who died for our sins
Paul isn’t saying anything im a sinner and can’t do any better he’s explaining to Christian’s how to become free of sins dominion over us same things Jesus taught
But to your point no one is free from the ability to be tempted just because we believe in Jesus . Even Paul faced temptation constantly . Chapter 7 of Roman’s starts at the beginning of chapter 6 and he’s giving a lengthy speech on deep things inside of mankind’s nature “we’re all in this boat until we convert to christ “ is what he’s getting at the freedom part comes in chapter 8 when he begins telling us what frees us from the body of death he’s been lamenting in seven
“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”
Romans 7:18, 21-24 KJV
We can’t remain on that snare and state or we’re going to die then he goes on to the answers that deliver us
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh;
but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”( that’s what he’s describing in chapter seven the carnality in mankinds members our flesh )
Romans 8:1-8 KJV
Yes we still need to repent if we find ourselves commiting sin I agree but I don’t think that’s what Paul’s saying in chapter seven but it’s only the opinion of a common fool so it’s nothing official lol just my own thought about it
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You know what struck me some years back regarding what you’re talking about the proper type of prayer ? When God was promising beforhand to make a new covenant he says this of the new covenant that is going to come
“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.”
Isaiah 55:3-7
i began to look at David’s writings quite a bit because he said he would make a covenant based upon the sure mercies of David “
david was chosen by God to be king and lead his people , after that happened David connotes several sins of death according to the law for instance adultery is a sure death sentance according to the law conspiring to commit murder also a sin of death
david saw Bathsheba a married woman and began to covet her body , then this sin led him to invite her to his bed chamber and commit adultery , then that led him to start trying to cover up his adultery and covetousness by lying and deceiving Uriah the Hittite a good and godly israelite dedicated to the lord and the ark of the covenant . He then eventually plotted Uriahs unjust death innorder to cover over his sins of adultery having impregnated Bathsheba and he eventually has the man killed all to cover up his own sins
later after David had died God says of David who did those things “ you aren’t like David who lives his life after my own heart and ways did everything I commanded “ that’s w paraphrase but it’s something releatively the same as that the idea is he speaks of David as of David had never done those things
“and rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes;”
1 Kings 14:8 KJV
How is this clearly David conjured several sins of death but God has apparently forgiven and forgotten about it when he speaks of David and so I searched in his writings and found psalm 51 which to me is the true sinners prayer and shows a man repenting deeply after he had done those things
“Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: According unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, And cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: And my sin is ever before me.
Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: And in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Hide thy face from my sins, And blot out all mine iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God; And renew a right spirit within me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; And uphold me with thy free spirit. Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; And sinners shall be converted unto thee.”
Psalm 51:1-3, 5-7, 9-10, 12-13
later i saw this which seems to be the outcome
“When I kept silence, my bones waxed old Through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: My moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah. I acknowledged my sin unto thee, And mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; And thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin.
For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: Surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.”
Psalm 32:3-6 KJV
then I find it to be here manifest to Christian’s in our scriptures this mercy to the repentant
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, ( when we have ) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
1 John 1:8-10 KJV
acknolwegement of our sins , ( confession ) from a place of Repentance can change everything does Ch angels everything because God is merciful to those who aren’t hiding and lying to him even if they make mistakes or do a wrong in his sight .
a repentance is such a part of the fabric of the New Testament and it seems like it gets forgotten about
“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.”
Isaiah 55:3-7
i began to look at David’s writings quite a bit because he said he would make a covenant based upon the sure mercies of David “
david was chosen by God to be king and lead his people , after that happened David connotes several sins of death according to the law for instance adultery is a sure death sentance according to the law conspiring to commit murder also a sin of death
david saw Bathsheba a married woman and began to covet her body , then this sin led him to invite her to his bed chamber and commit adultery , then that led him to start trying to cover up his adultery and covetousness by lying and deceiving Uriah the Hittite a good and godly israelite dedicated to the lord and the ark of the covenant . He then eventually plotted Uriahs unjust death innorder to cover over his sins of adultery having impregnated Bathsheba and he eventually has the man killed all to cover up his own sins
later after David had died God says of David who did those things “ you aren’t like David who lives his life after my own heart and ways did everything I commanded “ that’s w paraphrase but it’s something releatively the same as that the idea is he speaks of David as of David had never done those things
“and rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes;”
1 Kings 14:8 KJV
How is this clearly David conjured several sins of death but God has apparently forgiven and forgotten about it when he speaks of David and so I searched in his writings and found psalm 51 which to me is the true sinners prayer and shows a man repenting deeply after he had done those things
“Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: According unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, And cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: And my sin is ever before me.
Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: And in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Hide thy face from my sins, And blot out all mine iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God; And renew a right spirit within me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; And uphold me with thy free spirit. Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; And sinners shall be converted unto thee.”
Psalm 51:1-3, 5-7, 9-10, 12-13
later i saw this which seems to be the outcome
“When I kept silence, my bones waxed old Through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: My moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah. I acknowledged my sin unto thee, And mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; And thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin.
For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: Surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.”
Psalm 32:3-6 KJV
then I find it to be here manifest to Christian’s in our scriptures this mercy to the repentant
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, ( when we have ) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
1 John 1:8-10 KJV
acknolwegement of our sins , ( confession ) from a place of Repentance can change everything does Ch angels everything because God is merciful to those who aren’t hiding and lying to him even if they make mistakes or do a wrong in his sight .
a repentance is such a part of the fabric of the New Testament and it seems like it gets forgotten about
I believe both of your options are insufficient. Paul is simply stating the condition of man apart from Christ once he recognises the laws of reality (moral and ethical) are of God and are righteous and good. Paul loved righteousness more than his own life, this is why he could recognise this dilemma within.
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Paul learnt to be content in any and all circumstances so he is not describing the Christian life. It is understandable to struggle initially in the Christian life for it is a new and living way and we must learn how to walk by means of the Spirit, but it is not a life in which we should find ourselves constantly struggling till the day we die.
Phil.4:12-13
12 I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13 I can do all this through him who gives me strength.
Phil.4:12-13
12 I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13 I can do all this through him who gives me strength.
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More Deception - Instead of Just Being Straightforward:
You cannot possibly get any idea what "percentage" of Christians think of one thing or another, by posting a tiny poll in a tiny thread, that very few people will ever see.
That's not how statistics are done, and I'm pretty sure you know that.
You won't assess what any percentage of Christians in the world believe, and you won't even assess percentages of people in this forum, because most won't even read it.
Surely you know this.
So... what is your REAL reason for conducting a poll?
Maybe you want to bring up a topic, get everyone arguing, while pretending YOU don't have an opinion???
Why don't YOU just give us YOUR opinion UP FRONT, and JUST BE HONEST.
Making fake excuses for a poll, in order to argue some new thing, is just tiresome and deceptive... why don't you just try being honest?
.
You cannot possibly get any idea what "percentage" of Christians think of one thing or another, by posting a tiny poll in a tiny thread, that very few people will ever see.
That's not how statistics are done, and I'm pretty sure you know that.
You won't assess what any percentage of Christians in the world believe, and you won't even assess percentages of people in this forum, because most won't even read it.
Surely you know this.
So... what is your REAL reason for conducting a poll?
Maybe you want to bring up a topic, get everyone arguing, while pretending YOU don't have an opinion???
Why don't YOU just give us YOUR opinion UP FRONT, and JUST BE HONEST.
Making fake excuses for a poll, in order to argue some new thing, is just tiresome and deceptive... why don't you just try being honest?
.
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