Predestination is misunderstood...
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I don't think you read what he said. He basically said the same thing you did. You're a strange duck, Paul Thomson. 
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He says Abraham was redeemed (Was he redeemed? I say, “Yes, of course he was.) and justified (Was Abraham a believer? I say, “Yes, of course he was) .
R. C. Sproul: How were the people in the Old Testament redeemed? How were they saved? Did Abraham go to heaven? Was Abraham a believer? Was he redeemed? I say, “Yes, of course he was. The New Testament labors that point.”
He says Abraham was saved (So, how were they saved, if they were saved? Well, Paul, in his epistle to the Romans, again, uses Abraham as an example of people in the Old Testament who were saved, )
He says that seved and justified are the same thing (Well, Paul, in his epistle to the Romans, again, uses Abraham as an example of people in the Old Testament who were saved, not by obeying the works of the law, not through the rites and the rituals of the sacrifices of the liturgy of Israel, but Abraham was justified by faith.) .
R. C. Sproul: They say, “Well, how could the people in the Old Testament be redeemed when Christ hadn’t come yet? There was no cross. There was no atonement. How could they possibly be redeemed when the Bible tells us that the blood of bulls and goats, all of the trappings of the Old Testament sacrificial system, could not in and of themselves save?”
So, how were they saved, if they were saved? Well, Paul, in his epistle to the Romans, again, uses Abraham as an example of people in the Old Testament who were saved, not by obeying the works of the law, not through the rites and the rituals of the sacrifices of the liturgy of Israel, but Abraham was justified by faith.
He thinks salvation, redemption and justification are all the same thing and happened together when Abraham believed God and it was reckoned ti Him as righteousness. (And my students look at me, and they say, “How could he be justified by faith when he hadn’t even heard about Jesus? What was the basis of Abraham’s salvation?” Well, the basis of Abraham’s salvation was the work of Jesus Christ. Abraham was saved exactly the same way you are saved, with one significant difference. Abraham’s faith was in a promise that was not yet fulfilled. Our faith is in the promise that has been fulfilled. Abraham and the Old Testament saints looked ahead into the future for their awaited Messiah, their awaited Redeemer. We look backwards to the past to the One who has come.}
I said Abraham was justified when he believed, but he was redeemed/his sins atoned for at the cross and he will be fully saved only at the resurrection.
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But you fail to see the point
They are condemned ALREADY
You can keep trying to put that present tense in there all you want. A person who truly trusts God does not change their mind and repent back to a state of unbelief again.
No matter how powerful you think you are.. You have no power to save you or keep yourself saved.
And God does nto make mistakes
They are condemned ALREADY
You can keep trying to put that present tense in there all you want. A person who truly trusts God does not change their mind and repent back to a state of unbelief again.
No matter how powerful you think you are.. You have no power to save you or keep yourself saved.
And God does nto make mistakes
Paul would disagree with you, (romans 4) he not only said abraham was saved, he said we today are saved by that same faith
Rom 4: 16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be [d]sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
That is not wise to claim this.
I am saved because I am justified. if I am not justifed. I have not been rescued (saved) I am still lost.
Rom 4: 16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be [d]sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
That is not wise to claim this.
I am saved because I am justified. if I am not justifed. I have not been rescued (saved) I am still lost.
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Yes, Jesus was I AM........Jesus was in the Desert with Israel, Paul said he was that Rock that followed them everywhere..........In Dan. 12 Jesus was the Man in Linen.........In Gen. 18 and 19 Jesus was the man Abraham called the Lord.
Jesus comes from the Hebrew word Yeshua, meaning Salvation. In many places in the old testament when the English speaks about "SALVATION" in a personhood sort of way as in my Salvation (Yeshua) its speaking about Jesus. This goes right over peoples heads. One passage as one patriarch was dying he said "My Salvation" (Yeshua) will carry me across the river.
Those men you named believed on the ONE TO COME, that was their Salvation. The seed whose heel would be bruised, but who would stomp on the head of the serpent. That is why Revelation says he was crucified before the foundations of the earth was ever laid.
That is what Predestination REALLY MEANS, if one reads Paul properly he is saying Jesus was PREDESTINED to be a SACRIFICE, therefore we are predestined unto Salvation in Christ Jesus, that does not mean that we have to accept that free gift, God knowing all things predestined us unto salvation in Christ because He foreknew we would fall.
Jesus comes from the Hebrew word Yeshua, meaning Salvation. In many places in the old testament when the English speaks about "SALVATION" in a personhood sort of way as in my Salvation (Yeshua) its speaking about Jesus. This goes right over peoples heads. One passage as one patriarch was dying he said "My Salvation" (Yeshua) will carry me across the river.
Those men you named believed on the ONE TO COME, that was their Salvation. The seed whose heel would be bruised, but who would stomp on the head of the serpent. That is why Revelation says he was crucified before the foundations of the earth was ever laid.
That is what Predestination REALLY MEANS, if one reads Paul properly he is saying Jesus was PREDESTINED to be a SACRIFICE, therefore we are predestined unto Salvation in Christ Jesus, that does not mean that we have to accept that free gift, God knowing all things predestined us unto salvation in Christ because He foreknew we would fall.
nobody chooses to go to hell.
God decides if they Go to hell.
But what you can choose is to be in hell with somebody.
It's called a living hell.
It's where you pluck somebody out of the fire.
But thanks for your correct answer that God does not predestine people to hell.
I was believing you where once a Calvinist.
God decides if they Go to hell.
But what you can choose is to be in hell with somebody.
It's called a living hell.
It's where you pluck somebody out of the fire.
But thanks for your correct answer that God does not predestine people to hell.
I was believing you where once a Calvinist.
The text says that Eve was tempted and ate before Adam and that she went to him after, so I do not think it was at the exact same time.
I do not believe Adam nor Eve was "MADE" to do anything. I think they chose to disobey. Did they stumble on their way to sinning? I believe that would be a necessity to be honest. If they were steadfast in their faith in God they wouldn't have been deceived.
I believe the moment they took they bite and ate was the exact time they fell. The second they DID the only thing God commanded them not to do was when they fell, so wasn't at the exact same time according to Gen. I do not believe the "stumbling" was the sin. If that's what you're asking. Why, what do you think?
I do not believe Adam nor Eve was "MADE" to do anything. I think they chose to disobey. Did they stumble on their way to sinning? I believe that would be a necessity to be honest. If they were steadfast in their faith in God they wouldn't have been deceived.
I believe the moment they took they bite and ate was the exact time they fell. The second they DID the only thing God commanded them not to do was when they fell, so wasn't at the exact same time according to Gen. I do not believe the "stumbling" was the sin. If that's what you're asking. Why, what do you think?