Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
BillyBob said:
At last count I have less than 200 posts. Could you please look back and find one where I claim scripture must harmonize! Not that I think this is a bad thing, but I'm sure that you won't find one.....
Click to expand...
I must have you confused with someone else. For that I apologize.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BillyBob
FollowerofShiloh said:
I showed you when Paul tells us this is from God he specifically mentions it. Since there's no mention of that, how do you know this was not just what Paul is saying it to confirm his stance on election?
Click to expand...
Everything Paul wrote was under inspiration. It was God-breathed. It's the word of God. It's ALL from God.
This is very basic stuff. Either It's all God's word given by inspiration and God-breathed and trustworthy or...nothing can be trusted.
You are the one who is actually taking away words from the book. This is a grievous mistake.
 
Rufus said:
And if you can't be bothered to get your bible and look up the passages, should I feel guilty for what you choose to not do?

And you should be the last one here to talk about someone else's arrogance or discourteousness (real or perceived!). Remove the beam from your own eye before pointing to any speck in mine.
Click to expand...

I am sorry you are having problems with your eyes. I indicated I knew the scriptures you referenced. From my post:

Niki7 said:
I cannot understand, not because I am ignorant of the scripture you posted, why you would think there is any bearing on what I posted? If anyone here has posted about our guilt and Jesus taking our place, that person would be me....although I am certainly not alone.
Click to expand...

No. I'm not arrogant or nasty in my posts. Believe me I could be but you do enough of that yourself.

I can see no reason you should convince anyone of your correct interpretation with the attitude you display and your constant evading of actual discussion. In what way do those scriptures negate the post concerning the fact that Christians in the NT are not referred to as sinners?

Never once did I say that means we do not sin. I have posted scripture about it as I almost always do and you try to gaslight me.

It will not work.
 
selahsays said:
Why, even before Esau was born, did God hate him? Did God in the first earth age likewise despise Esau? Or does it really matter why, other than what Romans 9 makes very clear?

(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved." "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God."

- Romans 9:11-26
Click to expand...

You ask these questions but what is your takeaway on God's disposition of heart toward Jacob and Esau in the above quoted passage? And, yes, I think it's important -- both the "why" and the "when".
 
selahsays said:
But Paul was a chosen vessel—God chose him specifically to write most of the NT, right?
Click to expand...

Actually, Paul is considered to have written 13 or 14 of the 27 books of the NT...certainly not half. Further, much of what he wrote was correctional...consider Galatians and Corinthians. Not all of course

You said you consider all of scripture. Well what Paul wrote is very much in the minority. On top of that, certain people have trouble understanding Romans to this day and even Peter the Apostle said some people find him hard to understand.

as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which there are some things that are hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. II Peter 3:16
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
I showed you when Paul tells us this is from God he specifically mentions it. Since there's no mention of that, how do you know this was not just what Paul is saying it to confirm his stance on election?
Click to expand...

Classic Argument from Silence fallacy. :rolleyes: The onus is on you to prove that Romans 9 or any portion thereof is not divine revelation.
 
Cameron143 said:
Everything Paul wrote was under inspiration. It was God-breathed. It's the word of God. It's ALL from God.
This is very basic stuff. Either It's all God's word given by inspiration and God-breathed and trustworthy or...nothing can be trusted.
You are the one who is actually taking away words from the book. This is a grievous mistake.
Click to expand...
There's a difference between what God says and what we know is hyperbole.

Hyperbole in the Bible

We do not communicate using explicit, factual language to make our points. What I'm getting at is the reality that the Bible makes extensive use of idiom and hyperbole. Hyperbole is the employment of exaggerative language to emphasize a point. Idiom is biblical "slang" if you will.

Jul 2, 2019 — Paul is using hyperbole, exaggeration, it illustrates the importance of getting his point across.
So, it's not fully inspired but a method Paul uses.
 
Rufus said:
You ask these questions but what is your takeaway on God's disposition of heart toward Jacob and Esau in the above quoted passage? And, yes, I think it's important -- both the "why" and the "when".
Click to expand...
Jacob was elected; Esau was not.
 
Rufus said:
Classic Argument from Silence fallacy. :rolleyes: The onus is on you to prove that Romans 9 or any portion thereof is not divine revelation.
Click to expand...
I already made the point. You keep dancing around it with idioms not related to either scripture from Malachi nor Paul.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eli1
Cameron143 said:
Sure. And God added further information through Paul.
Do you know everything about salvation from the OT? Or did your knowledge of salvation enlarge as a result of the information found in the NT?
Click to expand...

Isaiah is so graphic in it's accuracy of the Messiah, that once Jesus had been crucified, they considered it to be too problematical.

The 17th-century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah1 readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter, and the week after, we jump straight to Isaiah 54.2

—Eitan Bar

so....
 
Rufus said:
YOU are the one evading a straightforward answer; yet, I'm dishonest!? Project much? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
You claimed God does not and cannot love sinners, then denied saying such after I was making a case for how He did, so yes, your question was very deceitful.
 
Niki7 said:
Actually, Paul is considered to have written 13 or 14 of the 27 books of the NT...certainly not half. Further, much of what he wrote was correctional...consider Galatians and Corinthians. Not all of course

You said you consider all of scripture. Well what Paul wrote is very much in the minority. On top of that, certain people have trouble understanding Romans to this day and even Peter the Apostle said some people find him hard to understand.

as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which there are some things that are hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. II Peter 3:16
Click to expand...
It doesn’t matter, though, what you perceive or do not understand. That’s why we study His Word. The Bible is inspired, and God is the author. Right?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back