Predestination is misunderstood...
- Thread starter Genez
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
What is predestination ?
It is God’s predetermining all reasonable beings, whether angels or men, to an everlasting domain either of salvation or damnation. 1 Thess 5:9
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
So predestination is comprised of two aspects:
Election, which is God’s sovereign choosing some men to salvation through Christ. “And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.” {Rom 9:23} “Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.” {Eph1:5}
Reprobation, which is God’s sovereign choosing some, both men and Angels, to destruction. There are some vessels “to dishonor.” {2 Tim 2:20} “To shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.” {Rom 9:22} 13
It is God’s predetermining all reasonable beings, whether angels or men, to an everlasting domain either of salvation or damnation. 1 Thess 5:9
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
So predestination is comprised of two aspects:
Election, which is God’s sovereign choosing some men to salvation through Christ. “And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.” {Rom 9:23} “Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.” {Eph1:5}
Reprobation, which is God’s sovereign choosing some, both men and Angels, to destruction. There are some vessels “to dishonor.” {2 Tim 2:20} “To shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.” {Rom 9:22} 13
Genesis 2
8And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, where He placed the man He had formed. 9Out of the ground the LORD God gave growth to every tree that is pleasing to the eye and good for food. And in the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
15Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it.
16And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”
25And the man and his wife were both naked, and they were not ashamed.
You know that I love you, @Magenta, and that I hold your counsel in high regard, but I'm having a time dismissing @PaulThomson's argument.
The above sequence of events, the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (and this is the first I've even considered the possibility that these might be one and the same as proposed by @7thMoon) are in the middle of the garden. Whether it can be deduced that God 'put' them there are they were 'just' there from the statement as is, "And in the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the of tkogae." I'd have to be given more insight about before determining. Anyway, these were there before Adam was created.
'bbl, have company
8And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, where He placed the man He had formed. 9Out of the ground the LORD God gave growth to every tree that is pleasing to the eye and good for food. And in the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
15Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it.
16And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”
25And the man and his wife were both naked, and they were not ashamed.
You know that I love you, @Magenta, and that I hold your counsel in high regard, but I'm having a time dismissing @PaulThomson's argument.
The above sequence of events, the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (and this is the first I've even considered the possibility that these might be one and the same as proposed by @7thMoon) are in the middle of the garden. Whether it can be deduced that God 'put' them there are they were 'just' there from the statement as is, "And in the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the of tkogae." I'd have to be given more insight about before determining. Anyway, these were there before Adam was created.
'bbl, have company
-
1
- Show all
Scripture does not say so, only that we have eternal life in
Thank you, Mem, and I likewise hold you in high regard, even though I must admit I do not always understand some of the things you say in your musings and pondering .
. It does give me cause to pause and reflect how differently some of us think! And this is not a bad thing. Also it seems your background is much different than mine, and this would lend itself to some of the differences in our thought directions and/or leanings as well. Any way, I do not recall anything being said in my convos concerning the origin of the two trees under discussion. The pertinent point being discussed was whether or not Adam and Eve had eaten of the Tree of Life to maintain their existence prior to sinning by eating of the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Since eating of it (ToL) would mean they would live forever after, obviously they had not. P denies this. And God specifically ousted them from the garden and guarded the way to the Tree of Life so they could not ALSO eat of it after sinning. That means they had not already. Another point denied by those who want to say otherwise. And this came up in my convo with P only because I was showing him how he goes beyond what Scripture says, as one of two examples I gave, because he asked me to, although as mentioned, he has a whole thread where he makes claims about God nowhere found in the Bible.
Thank you, Mem, and I likewise hold you in high regard, even though I must admit I do not always understand some of the things you say in your musings and pondering .
. It does give me cause to pause and reflect how differently some of us think! And this is not a bad thing. Also it seems your background is much different than mine, and this would lend itself to some of the differences in our thought directions and/or leanings as well. Any way, I do not recall anything being said in my convos concerning the origin of the two trees under discussion. The pertinent point being discussed was whether or not Adam and Eve had eaten of the Tree of Life to maintain their existence prior to sinning by eating of the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Since eating of it (ToL) would mean they would live forever after, obviously they had not. P denies this. And God specifically ousted them from the garden and guarded the way to the Tree of Life so they could not ALSO eat of it after sinning. That means they had not already. Another point denied by those who want to say otherwise. And this came up in my convo with P only because I was showing him how he goes beyond what Scripture says, as one of two examples I gave, because he asked me to, although as mentioned, he has a whole thread where he makes claims about God nowhere found in the Bible. -
1
- Show all
Do you not think their blindness was spiritual and/or psychological? When people say they see,
it also means they understand. It does not mean they could not physically see before. It means
they have made the connections between one thing and another to arrive at a specific conclusion.
In this case, they saw the evil they had done, in using their self will to go against the will of God.
You could even say they ate the fruit of their disobedience. And all creation suffers for it.
it also means they understand. It does not mean they could not physically see before. It means
they have made the connections between one thing and another to arrive at a specific conclusion.
In this case, they saw the evil they had done, in using their self will to go against the will of God.
You could even say they ate the fruit of their disobedience. And all creation suffers for it.