I wrote a Letter to my Free Will

[John146]

Absolutely! It's pretty difficult for people to claim they had free will, at least BEFORE they were freed by Christ.

Here, Paul is writing to believers. Can we grieve the a Holy Spirit by our behavior? Absolutely! That’s a choice, the new nature at odds with the old nature.

Ephesians 4:
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

And yet some do it quite often! Even denying that the natural man is a slave to sin.

Being released from Captivity . . . is this not the core theme of the Bible?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

This is may be your free will experience but it is not everyone's' thankfully.

Do you believe that I was describing my personal experience?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

If you hold to views of Calvinism but don't use the word "Calvinism"... the arguments on both sides still remain the same.

I don't usually debate this issue, as it's been debated on CC for thousands of pages, and it's been debated throughout Christendom for hundreds of years. I only commented in this thread because it was a very unusual post.



I'm now going to leave, and go to a more kind and gentle thread, where we're only talking about cannibals.
: )

.

Like I mentioned, I don't know anything about Calvinism any longer. I'm so old I've forgotten every bit of it.

And, I'm not here to debate, but discuss. I enjoy talking about our Faith, but I detest the crazy debating and nasty attitudes that can come about.

As for cannibals: I used to be a Cremationist and have seen a lot of bodies. I have no idea of how anyone could eat another human being. If I had to choose between eating another human and killing myself (to avoid eating human meat), I'm not sure which the Lord would be upset with more. lol

 

[HeIsHere]

Do you believe that I was describing my personal experience?

First person does often indicate a personal experience.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

First person does often indicate a personal experience.

I see. What do you think your accuracy percentage is when you judge people's hearts?

 

[Magenta]

Being released from Captivity . . . is this not the core theme of the Bible?

I don't think it necessarily core... core to me would be the fact that there is a God, and all life
subsists in Him. He created all that is and gave us life, with a standing offer to all for the promise
of more life, contingent upon belief in the shed righteous blood of His Son Jesus Christ, Who gave
His life as a propitiatory sacrifice to pay the sin debt, which is death. That part is core to the gospel
message, for sure, and surely the Bible makes plain man's propensity to sin, and need of a Saviour.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I don't think it necessarily core... core to me would be the fact that there is a God, and all life
subsists in Him. He created all that is and gave us life, with a standing offer to all for the promise
of more life, contingent upon belief in the shed righteous blood of His Son Jesus Christ, Who gave
His life as a propitiatory sacrifice to pay the sin debt, which is death. That part is core to the gospel
message, for sure, and surely the Bible makes plain man's propensity to sin, and need of a Saviour.

The reason why I offer that it is the core of the Bible is answered by a question: What happens if we are not released from the Captivity of Satan? Game over. That's precisely why Paul taught what he taught in 1 Cor, the Love Chapter. We can be all things, but if we do not have Love, we are nothing. This Godly Love can only come from a Purified heart, a heart that has been released from Satan's grasp, controlled with the express purpose of causing his minions to do his evil will. Well, the same issue that won't allow a person to Love according to 1 Cor 13, is the same issue that stands in the way of Eternal Life. Paul said that it is the very thing that Transfers a person from Spiritual death to Spiritual Life.

Colossians 2:13 NLT - "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

If that Sinful Nature isn't cut away, there is absolutely no hope. This symbolizes the conclusion of the relationship between one of Christ's Elect and the Devil. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, more critical and vital that every human do while in this body, and it is to seek Christ and His Holy, Spiritual Circumcision, the cutting away of the Sinful Nature. Until that happens, Daddy is the Devil. Yikes!

 

[Magenta]

The reason why I offer that it is the core of the Bible is answered by a question: What happens if we are not released from the Captivity of Satan? Game over. That's precisely why Paul taught what he taught in 1 Cor, the Love Chapter. We can be all things, but if we do not have Love, we are nothing. This Godly Love can only come from a Purified heart, a heart that has been released from Satan's grasp, controlled with the express purpose of causing his minions to do his evil will. Well, the same issue that won't allow a person to Love according to 1 Cor 13, is the same issue that stands in the way of Eternal Life. Paul said that it is the very thing that Transfers a person from Spiritual death to Spiritual Life.

Colossians 2:13 NLT - "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

If that Sinful Nature isn't cut away, there is absolutely no hope. This symbolizes the conclusion of the relationship between one of Christ's Elect and the Devil. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, more critical and vital that every human do while in this body, and it is to seek Christ and His Holy, Spiritual Circumcision, the cutting away of the Sinful Nature. Until that happens, Daddy is the Devil. Yikes!

This is true. Yet still some will speak as if they needed no help at all from God in coming to believe; they did it all on their own.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

This is true. Yet still some will speak as if they needed no help at all from God in coming to believe; they did it all on their own.

Yes. That would be most people, actually. When a person has received the Circumcision of Christ, they'll know it. There's no mystery. And when that Powerful moment happens, they will realize their errors. They will realize why it is recommended that not many of us be teachers.

Until then, these people will continue to speak of things they have not experienced or understood. The Veil has to be lifted by God Himself. No human can do it, not even free will.

 

[maxwel]

The reason why I offer that it is the core of the Bible is answered by a question: What happens if we are not released from the Captivity of Satan? Game over. That's precisely why Paul taught what he taught in 1 Cor, the Love Chapter. We can be all things, but if we do not have Love, we are nothing. This Godly Love can only come from a Purified heart, a heart that has been released from Satan's grasp, controlled with the express purpose of causing his minions to do his evil will. Well, the same issue that won't allow a person to Love according to 1 Cor 13, is the same issue that stands in the way of Eternal Life. Paul said that it is the very thing that Transfers a person from Spiritual death to Spiritual Life.

Colossians 2:13 NLT - "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

If that Sinful Nature isn't cut away, there is absolutely no hope. This symbolizes the conclusion of the relationship between one of Christ's Elect and the Devil. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, more critical and vital that every human do while in this body, and it is to seek Christ and His Holy, Spiritual Circumcision, the cutting away of the Sinful Nature. Until that happens, Daddy is the Devil. Yikes!

Atonement: Ransom Theory vs Penal Substitution


What you're offering as the "core" of the Bible is the "Ransom Theory of Atonement."

A.) So to start with, you are implying the atonement IS the core of the Bible... that's your underlying presupposition.

B.) Next, you are picking one particular theory of the atonement, which is known as the ransom theory, and giving that as your preferred view of the atonement.

C.) Most protestants would argue that the Penal Substitutionary Theory is the biblically correct, or at least biblically primary, theory of the atonement... not the ransom theory.

D.) Although we do find glimpses of this ransom theory in scripture, it does not seem to take on the role as the primary point of the atonement. These ideas of captivity and ransom seem to merely add some additional information, some additional aspects, rather than taking on the role of the primary point, or primary operation. Personally, I think it's very easy to poke holes in the ransom theory.


Discussing theories on the atonement is a large topic, and a different topic... you might want to start a different thread for this.

.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Atonement: Ransom Theory vs Penal Substitution


What you're offering as the "core" of the Bible is the "Ransom Theory of Atonement."

A.) So to start with, you are implying the atonement IS the core of the Bible... that's your underlying presupposition.

B.) Next, you are picking one particular theory of the atonement, which is known as the ransom theory, and giving that as your preferred view of the atonement.

C.) Most protestants would argue that the Penal Substitutionary Theory is the biblically correct, or at least biblically primary, theory of the atonement... not the ransom theory.

D.) Although we do find glimpses of this ransom theory in scripture, it does not seem to take on the role as the primary point of the atonement. These ideas of captivity and ransom seem to merely add some additional information, some additional aspects, rather than taking on the role of the primary point, or primary operation. Personally, I think it's very easy to poke holes in the ransom theory.


Discussing theories on the atonement is a large topic, and a different topic... you might want to start a different thread for this.

.

Thanks for sharing, but in my opinion, which isn't worth much, the collegiate approach strips Power from the Story of God. People spend too much time looking up words in the dictionary instead of preparing to share the Saving Plan of Christ with someone who is waiting for the Message.

 

[PaulThomson]

Dear Free Will. I just wanted to let you know how much I am thankful for you. If not for you, God would be in control of me. And that would, well, just be awful, in fact, it would be hateful of Him if He took you away from me. I don’t know what I’d do without you. I mean, I wouldn’t be allowed to freely feed my porn addiction, drug and alcohol addictions, and oh, so many more.

What I like about you, Entity Free Will, is that you allow me to make my life all about me, me, me . . . gosh, and that’s so wonderful. I mean, the more you can place the attention and focus upon me and not God, that’d be great. I don’t want Him to get any more credit than He should! I mean, come on! We chose this bumpy, up-and-down path of ours! Our successes are because of us, and our failures are because of us, too! Isn’t it something!? 😊

Most important, Free Will . . . you give me the right to be in complete, and total, control. I get to decide if God does anything in my life, and I decide if the Devil acts in my life just the same.

Me. It’s all about me!

You have a few debilitating problems because of holding that perspective on free will.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

You have a few debilitating problems because of holding that perspective on free will.

Hey there, thanks for sharing!

If you would, could you give me one example? Just one, please. When there's a year's worth of reading material that doesn't make sense, I lose interest quickly.

 

[maxwel]

Thanks for sharing, but in my opinion, which isn't worth much, the collegiate approach strips Power from the Story of God. People spend too much time looking up words in the dictionary instead of preparing to share the Saving Plan of Christ with someone who is waiting for the Message.

So study of scripture, and education in scripture.... is bad?

1.) We should probably refrain from any appearance of double standards, which might lead to accusations of hypocrisy:
A. If I DO NOT know much about your view.... you would undoubted claim I don't understand it.
B. If I DO understand your view, and I HAVE studied it... you try to claim that study is bad?

2.) You applied the word "collegiate" to my reply, in a pejorative way, in a dismissive way, without being able to rebut my points... you simply ridiculed and dismissed my points so you didn't have to rebut them... but you never did rebut them.
A. The various theories of the atonement have been around for millennia: they are not new, they are not mysterious, and they are not "collegiate"... they are matters of history and theology throughout Christendom.
B. It isn't good form if we start a debate, and then dismiss and ridicule any objections we simply aren't prepared to answer.

3.) Your Real Argument:
It sounds as if your argument is, "You're mentioning things I haven't studied, or that I don't like... so they must be BAD, and you must have LEARNED THEM IN A BAD PLACE".
A. That is an irrational conclusion.
B. it would also require you to be the final authority over all knowledge, both human and divine.

4.) You are the one starting the debate; you are the one raising questions and challenges.... so perhaps you shouldn't be so dismissive when we merely respond to those challenges. (Especially when you seem unprepared to defend your views against our responses.)


Conclusion:
We can't imply we've gleaned important views from our own study, and then when someone challenges us, claim that study is a bad thing.



.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Is anyone feeling the control of Christ in their life this Sunday Morning?! Notice how the highlighted text agrees with themselves.

2 Corinthians 2:14 NLT - "But thank God! He has made us his captives and continues to lead us along in Christ's triumphal procession. Now he uses us to spread the knowledge of Christ everywhere, like a sweet perfume."

2 Corinthians 5:13-21 NLT - "If it seems we are crazy, it is to bring glory to God. And if we are in our right minds, it is for your benefit. Either way, Christ's love controls us. Since we believe that Christ died for all, we also believe that we have all died to our old life. He died for everyone so that those who receive his new life will no longer live for themselves. Instead, they will live for Christ, who died and was raised for them. So we have stopped evaluating others from a human point of view. At one time we thought of Christ merely from a human point of view. How differently we know him now! This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun! And all of this is a gift from God, who brought us back to himself through Christ. And God has given us this task of reconciling people to him. For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people's sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation. So we are Christ's ambassadors; God is making his appeal through us. We speak for Christ when we plead, "Come back to God!" For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ."

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

So study of scripture, and education in scripture.... is bad?

Anything that takes away from a person understanding the Bible in the manner in which our God wants it to be known is "bad."

 

[Obedience]

Anything that takes away from a person understanding the Bible in the manner in which our God wants it to be known is "bad."

People live for politics.People live for the victory of the War College.People live to defeat the enemy.Finally, people live to connect these with God.that is odd.

 

[maxwel]

Anything that takes away from a person understanding the Bible in the manner in which our God wants it to be known is "bad."

You are, once again, starting with a lot of hidden presuppositions.

1.) To start with, you are presuming that YOU are the one who determines how God wants things to be known.

2.) If it is not up to YOU, but rather up to God's Spirit moving collectively through his people... well... that is exactly what I am participating in, and what we are all doing, collectively, as we share and debate in these forums.

3.) The problem is that you couldn't rebut something I said, so to save face, you want to contend that you are simply MORALLY SUPERIOR... and you somehow win the argument on those grounds.



You can't start a debate, and then claim "moral superiority" when you simply get stuck.

.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

1.) To start with, you are presuming that YOU are the one who determines how God wants things to be known.

I had to stop reading right there. It's actually yourself that is making the presumptions about me.

Slow your roll, my friend. You don't know as much as you think.