If the Law Protected the Jews . . .

[2ndTimothyGroup]

If the Law Protected the Jews . . .

What then, happened to Gentiles if they committed the same sin that would require the death of the Jew?

The Law was given so that when the Jews sinned, they could sacrifice an animal. Thus the animal died to spare the sinner's life. So again, what about the Gentiles? Were they instantly slaughtered by God? What about them? What is their demise?

Any ideas?

 

[Nehemiah6]

what about the Gentiles? Were they instantly slaughtered by God? What about them?

Many Gentile nations were indeed slaughtered by God. But not all. They were allowed to live according to their conscience. See Romans 2.

 

[Aaron56]

If the Law Protected the Jews . . .

What then, happened to Gentiles if they committed the same sin that would require the death of the Jew?

The Law was given so that when the Jews sinned, they could sacrifice an animal. Thus the animal died to spare the sinner's life. So again, what about the Gentiles? Were they instantly slaughtered by God? What about them? What is their demise?

Any ideas?

The promise of the Messiah was through the line of Abraham. While the law was in effect (after Sinai) the enemy didn't care much about the non-Jews: they were corrupted, apparently easily so given their history and rituals. They were no threat to the enemy's plans. Their "gods" were demonic entities that required demonic worship often including the death of children. Based on their condition, God could either keep them alive or wipe them out. This is recorded in the scriptures.

Every good thing the Jews had was because of God's covenant with them, their lives included. Because they could not keep the law, they were debtors to God (God kept His side of the covenant but the Jews did not keep theirs). This made the Jews slaves of God because they had nothing inherently of value apart from what they were given. Animal blood, spilled on a Jew's behalf, did not change the condition of the Jew: he was still in need of Jesus Christ.

When Jesus died without sin, He triumphed over Death and Hell. By taking Jesus, they over-extended their authority and, consequently, lost the right to rule their domains. That is why Jesus Christ, the One who was greater than both spirits, could demand the keys from Death and Hell.

Now, because Christ has appeared to men, all men, including the Jews, may be included in the Seed foretold to Abraham and become part of the Begotten of God. This is the ministry of re-conciliation: to restore man to God's original plan.

 

[Deuteronomy]

If the Law Protected the Jews . . .What then, happened to Gentiles if they committed the same sin that would require the death of the Jew?

The Law was given so that when the Jews sinned, they could sacrifice an animal. Thus the animal died to spare the sinner's life. So again, what about the Gentiles? Were they instantly slaughtered by God? What about them? What is their demise? Any ideas?

Hello 2ndTimothyGroup, animal sacrifices to atone for the sins that we commit (so that we can be forgiven of them, at least temporarily) began in Genesis 3:21 with our first parents (in this case God sacrificed the animals Himself). Following that, we see that they (the sacrifices) appear again, this time as an integral part of the Cain/Able incident in Genesis 4:3-8 (as I know you know, as well).

I guess my point is that the Mosaic Law was hardly the origin of animal sacrifices/offerings being made to the Lord God to atone for our sins, but it did lay down some very precise guidelines for Israel to follow and comply with whenever they did so.

Also, as the Apostle Paul (and the Lord Jesus) point out for us, God is the Savior of ALL men, especially of believers .. e.g. 1 Timothy 4:10 cf Matthew 5:43-45, and the fact that we (saints to be and reprobates alike) are born, sin personally, and are then allowed to live on anyway is proof of that, I think. He (in a very real way) loves all of us and provides for all of us, on this side of the grave anyway.

Though we have not always had the Mosaic Law, we do have the "law" that God writes on each person's heart from birth (which is why we all have an inherent sense (or better, knowledge) of what is right/wrong, good/evil .. e.g. Romans 2:12-16. We also have laws (both written and unwritten, many that predate the Mosaic Law) that tribes/societies of men have created for the sake of maintaining peace, order and justice.

Finally, there are many similarities between the Law of God and the laws of men as far as penalties go. If memory serves, there was no animal sacrifice for capital crimes, like murder, either inside or outside of Israel.

Here's a short article that may be of interest to you about some of this: Did Moses copy the Law from the Code of Hammurabi? | GotQuestions.org

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy (David)

​

Hebrews 10​

4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. ​

​

 

[Soyeong]

If the Law Protected the Jews . . .

What then, happened to Gentiles if they committed the same sin that would require the death of the Jew?

The Law was given so that when the Jews sinned, they could sacrifice an animal. Thus the animal died to spare the sinner's life. So again, what about the Gentiles? Were they instantly slaughtered by God? What about them? What is their demise?

Any ideas?

In 1 Corinthians 10:1-13, we are to use Israel's disobedience to God's law as an example of what we should avoid doing rather than as an example for us to emulate. The offerings on Succot for each day that total 70 represents atonement for the nations.

https://ohr.edu/2349

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I haven't read your responses yet, but I think I just found the answer to what happens to the Gentiles in view of their being without the Law. Well, it's a partial answer, anyway. As it turns out, God doesn't show favoritism, so he destroys them.

So apparently, the Law prevented the Blessed Jews from being destroyed, when otherwise, like the Gentiles, they would also be destroyed.

Romans 2:11-15 NLT - "For God does not show favoritism. When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God's written law. And the Jews, who do have God's law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it. For merely listening to the law doesn't make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight. Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right."

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Many Gentile nations were indeed slaughtered by God. But not all. They were allowed to live according to their conscience. See Romans 2.

Yep. Gentile Nations along with others from the Seven Nations . . . two distinct groups.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The promise of the Messiah was through the line of Abraham. While the law was in effect (after Sinai) the enemy didn't care much about the non-Jews: they were corrupted, apparently easily so given their history and rituals. They were no threat to the enemy's plans. Their "gods" were demonic entities that required demonic worship often including the death of children. Based on their condition, God could either keep them alive or wipe them out. This is recorded in the scriptures.

Every good thing the Jews had was because of God's covenant with them, their lives included. Because they could not keep the law, they were debtors to God (God kept His side of the covenant but the Jews did not keep theirs). This made the Jews slaves of God because they had nothing inherently of value apart from what they were given. Animal blood, spilled on a Jew's behalf, did not change the condition of the Jew: he was still in need of Jesus Christ.

When Jesus died without sin, He triumphed over Death and Hell. By taking Jesus, they over-extended their authority and, consequently, lost the right to rule their domains. That is why Jesus Christ, the One who was greater than both spirits, could demand the keys from Death and Hell.

Now, because Christ has appeared to men, all men, including the Jews, may be included in the Seed foretold to Abraham and become part of the Begotten of God. This is the ministry of re-conciliation: to restore man to God's original plan.

That's an interesting read. Thank you kindly for taking the time.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Hello 2ndTimothyGroup, animal sacrifices to atone for the sins that we commit (so that we can be forgiven of them, at least temporarily) began in Genesis 3:21 with our first parents (in this case God sacrificed the animals Himself). Following that, we see that they (the sacrifices) appear again, this time as an integral part of the Cain/Able incident in Genesis 4:3-8 (as I know you know, as well).

I guess my point is that the Mosaic Law was hardly the origin of animal sacrifices/offerings being made to the Lord God to atone for our sins, but it did lay down some very precise guidelines for Israel to follow and comply with whenever they did so.

Also, as the Apostle Paul (and the Lord Jesus) point out for us, God is the Savior of ALL men, especially of believers .. e.g. 1 Timothy 4:10 cf Matthew 5:43-45, and the fact that we (saints to be and reprobates alike) are born, sin personally, and are then allowed to live on anyway is proof of that, I think. He (in a very real way) loves all of us and provides for all of us, on this side of the grave anyway.

Though we have not always had the Mosaic Law, we do have the "law" that God writes on each person's heart from birth (which is why we all have an inherent sense (or better, knowledge) of what is right/wrong, good/evil .. e.g. Romans 2:12-16. We also have laws (both written and unwritten, many that predate the Mosaic Law) that tribes/societies of men have created for the sake of maintaining peace, order and justice.

Finally, there are many similarities between the Law of God and the laws of men as far as penalties go. If memory serves, there was no animal sacrifice for capital crimes, like murder, either inside or outside of Israel.

Here's a short article that may be of interest to you about some of this: Did Moses copy the Law from the Code of Hammurabi? | GotQuestions.org

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy (David)

​

Hebrews 10​

4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. ​

​

Thanks, Deut. I like that illustration of Cain/Abel being a portrayal of Christ's sacrifice. Curious . . . did you think of that? I like it.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If the Law Protected the Jews . . .

What then, happened to Gentiles if they committed the same sin that would require the death of the Jew?

The Law was given so that when the Jews sinned, they could sacrifice an animal. Thus the animal died to spare the sinner's life. So again, what about the Gentiles? Were they instantly slaughtered by God? What about them? What is their demise?

Any ideas?

either jew or gentile is sentenced to death because of sin

“For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)

in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to the gospel.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

either jew or gentile is sentenced to death because of sin

Yes, everyone dies. What happened to the Gentiles who died before Christ in terms of their Eternity?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, everyone dies. What happened to the Gentiles who died before Christ in terms of their Eternity?

The same thing th at happened to anyone ms eternity before Christ they had to wait for the resurrection and life to come forth to all nations

remember Moses died too and he’s the mediator of the law. It never makes any promise of eternal life only blessings on earth and long life then you die because of sin

Jew , gentile no difference is my point

every person needed this to come into the world in order to have eternal life what God had promised in the Old Testament that would later come

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Brither everyone’s already going to die because of sin we need salvstion from it whether Jew or gentile there isn’t a difference even those Jews who died before Jesus had the same wait

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now we have the offer of eternal life only in the son of God not in Moses the servant of the lord bit in Jesus who is the Christ our Lord look at the power when Jesus came over death v Moses who himself died for his transgression

“And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:51-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when Moses died he died and no one rose up that’s the vast difference In The ot and new.

as to Your inquiry there even before there was a Jew or gentile before Abraham was ever born those people had to wait until jesus died and rose ( excluding Enoch the seventh from Adam who himself walked with God 365 years and also Elijah raised a boy )

what I mean is everyone was waiting for Christ to overcome death the gentiles or Jews all mankind was waiting for the messiahs life on earth and his accomplishing victory in our behalf through his intercession taking in death and overcoming it for every man so everyone was waiting for the messiah just like everyone is in this testament when he arrives the dead will rise he became the lord of the living and also those who were already dead




“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:18-20‬ ‭

those had died a few thousand years before jesus died and rose but

“For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

even those before Jesus was born can be saved by him we see that because many saints rose up after his resurrection to many eye witnesses he raised Lazarus , a young girl when Christ entered death he overcame it because he is the source of life and healing we see it pouring from him in the gospel blind see lepers cleansed the dead raised the tormented mentally healed the possessed made free the broken made whole the poor made rich with the treasures of the gospel ….

they all are the same to God whether a Jew or gentile whether born then or now Christs blood purchased the soul of every sinner to judge and redeem as he himself sees fit and has spoken clearly to believers of the gospel his yoke is truly easy and burden light

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

If the Law Protected the Jews . . .

What then, happened to Gentiles if they committed the same sin that would require the death of the Jew?

The Law was given so that when the Jews sinned, they could sacrifice an animal. Thus the animal died to spare the sinner's life. So again, what about the Gentiles? Were they instantly slaughtered by God? What about them? What is their demise?

Any ideas?

49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.'

The One Law was for all people if they chose to obey it.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The same thing th at happened to anyone ms eternity before Christ they had to wait for the resurrection and life to come forth to all nations

remember Moses died too and he’s the mediator of the law. It never makes any promise of eternal life only blessings on earth and long life then you die because of sin

Jew , gentile no difference is my point

every person needed this to come into the world in order to have eternal life what God had promised in the Old Testament that would later come

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Brither everyone’s already going to die because of sin we need salvstion from it whether Jew or gentile there isn’t a difference even those Jews who died before Jesus had the same wait

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now we have the offer of eternal life only in the son of God not in Moses the servant of the lord bit in Jesus who is the Christ our Lord look at the power when Jesus came over death v Moses who himself died for his transgression

“And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:51-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when Moses died he died and no one rose up that’s the vast difference In The ot and new.

as to Your inquiry there even before there was a Jew or gentile before Abraham was ever born those people had to wait until jesus died and rose ( excluding Enoch the seventh from Adam who himself walked with God 365 years and also Elijah raised a boy )

what I mean is everyone was waiting for Christ to overcome death the gentiles or Jews all mankind was waiting for the messiahs life on earth and his accomplishing victory in our behalf through his intercession taking in death and overcoming it for every man so everyone was waiting for the messiah just like everyone is in this testament when he arrives the dead will rise he became the lord of the living and also those who were already dead




“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:18-20‬ ‭

those had died a few thousand years before jesus died and rose but

“For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

even those before Jesus was born can be saved by him we see that because many saints rose up after his resurrection to many eye witnesses he raised Lazarus , a young girl when Christ entered death he overcame it because he is the source of life and healing we see it pouring from him in the gospel blind see lepers cleansed the dead raised the tormented mentally healed the possessed made free the broken made whole the poor made rich with the treasures of the gospel ….

they all are the same to God whether a Jew or gentile whether born then or now Christs blood purchased the soul of every sinner to judge and redeem as he himself sees fit and has spoken clearly to believers of the gospel his yoke is truly easy and burden light

I've never seen a single person quote the below Scriptures. Do you think these Scriptures have something to do with what you're referring to?

Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.'

The One Law was for all people if they chose to obey it.

Ok, but Paul teaches us that the Gentiles were a law unto themselves. The Law was not for the Gentiles, but the Jews. Now, unless you're talking about Spiritual Laws written upon even the Gentiles hearts, that would make sense.

 

[Chaps]

If the Law Protected the Jews . . .

What then, happened to Gentiles if they committed the same sin that would require the death of the Jew?

The Law was given so that when the Jews sinned, they could sacrifice an animal. Thus the animal died to spare the sinner's life. So again, what about the Gentiles? Were they instantly slaughtered by God? What about them? What is their demise?

Any ideas?

According to the author of Hebrews,

”For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sin? But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins“ (Hebrews 10:1-4).

So, the point of the sacrifices was to remind the Jews of their sins and point to a coming Savior. It was never meant to absolve them of theis sins. So, sacrifices or the lack thereof would have no benefit in absolving sin or protecting the Gentiles. God demanded this of the Jews because of His covenant with them to remind them of their sins and to lead them to Christ.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Ok, but Paul teaches us that the Gentiles were a law unto themselves. The Law was not for the Gentiles, but the Jews. Now, unless you're talking about Spiritual Laws written upon even the Gentiles hearts, that would make sense.

If Jesus is the way for both Jew and Gentile in the 2nd Covenant, why wouldn't the Law be for all people in the 1st covenant? Everyone is a direct descendant of Noah.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It was never meant to absolve them of theis sins.

There is actually Scripture that states that the Law [did] provide forgiveness of specific sins. What the Law could not do, however, is cleanse a conscious of the Sinful Nature.

That said, I believe there is also Scripture, from Paul, where he states that the Law never provided forgiveness for sins, yet the Old Testament teachings is clear that it did.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I've never seen a single person quote the below Scriptures. Do you think these Scriptures have something to do with what you're referring to?

Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

Yeah God has always had a plan from the very beginning , the way we see time is just his plan unfolding he always knew from the beginning Jesus would be born live and die and raise up again from the dead . The ot folks were punished just not eternally it was more like this

“And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:22‬ ‭

for instance these folks received thier due reward earthly

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-7‬ ‭

abut then look at this

“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:18-20‬ ‭

See they died according to thier flesh but

“For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, ( they were punished )


but live according to God in the spirit.”( but also heard the gospel afterwards )
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure that makes sense but yes I think that’s probably talking about the same matters at least in general

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

If Jesus is the way for both Jew and Gentile in the 2nd Covenant, why wouldn't the Law be for all people in the 1st covenant? Everyone is a direct descendant of Noah.

I absolutely love this question! My friend, I have been scouring the Bible in a timeline, chronological order for years searching for this question (and many others, of course). I have only been studying the Story of God in this way for about five years, I believe, so my conclusions are still developing.

Thus far, I am able to determine that the answer lies within Chapters 1 and 3 of Ephesians, where Paul talks about the hidden, Eternal, Mysterious Plan of God, a Plan that has been in place since the beginning. Check this out . . . this is mind-boggling (as these words take us deep, deep into history before the Universe was created).

Ephesians 3:9-11 NLT - "I was chosen to explain to everyone this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning. God's purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord."

THAT . . . is unbelievable. If we take this concept above, highlighted in red, and apply it to the full Story of God, the implications are staggering. Yes, I am saying that we are something like a living play for the rulers and authorities in Heaven to watch and marvel over. Why? Because the Lord has a pre-written Plan, and it is being executed . . . perfectly. We are on full display to the Rulers and Authorities of the Heavenly Realms.

The Law: Part of God's Plan was to take the very small Nation of the Jews and demonstrate His Raw, almighty power through them (and others, like Pharaoh in Egypt). This Plan involves giving the Jews the Law as a protective guardian, as Paul teaches. This Law, however, would only last until Christ. When Christ fulfilled the Law, it was no longer considered an option, lest the torture and death of Christ be rendered useless.

If we study the full Story of God, the Bible in a timeline, chronological way, we will understand the Law (as much as the Lord reveals) much better than otherwise. It is simply a part of the Plan of God, where He chose to give the Blessed Jews a most Holy, and beautiful Law, such as that of Moses. Power . . . this is about Power! God did all that He said He would do through His Covenant with king David. Jesus Christ finally came as the anticipated Messiah, Jesus was killed and raised on the third Day, and the Law subsequently came to an end, for Paul teaches that anyone who attempts to be justified by the Law remains under the Lord's Curse, and at minimum, the Adamic Curse. But again, the point is that all of these things have come true. God wants us to see His Power, for He is constantly reminding us of it . . . especially throughout the Old Testament. God, apparently, is the only one allowed to boast! And He sure does, like none other.

It seems to me that this is about God having an Eternal Plan, it is being fulfilled, and the fact that God is accomplishing it perfectly, is making those Rulers and Authorities in Heaven quake in their Spiritual boots.