Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[Thunderrr-mental]

OK, so our main disagreement is over Bible interpretations regarding salvation.

You believe Jacob Arminius nailed and I believe John Calvin nailed it. These two interpretations are diametrically opposed to each other and they have divided the Church into two camps. Every Christian must choose one of these sides, there's no middle ground or neutrality or third interpretation, we're all forced to choose a side.

You have obviously chosen to side with Jacob Arminius and I have chosen John Calvin's side.

The problem most Armenians have is that they are unaware that they are Armenians.

The dividing factor is Armenians believe they are saved because they choose to believe and obey the gospel.

Calvinists believe that God choose to save His elect before he created the world.

As you can see, these two can't be true at the same time. One is a false unbiblical belief and the other one is biblically true and correct.

Here's the damning Biblical evidence, to blow the Arminian doctrine out of the water.

View attachment 262105 View attachment 262105

Let's tackle total depravity first.

And each verse associated to it in this column

Starting with genesis 2:17

God said in verse 17 if ye eat from the tree of good and evil you will die for a reason, what reason would that be.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

OK, so our main disagreement is over Bible interpretations regarding salvation.

You believe Jacob Arminius nailed and I believe John Calvin nailed it. These two interpretations are diametrically opposed to each other and they have divided the Church into two camps. Every Christian must choose one of these sides, there's no middle ground or neutrality or third interpretation, we're all forced to choose a side.

You have obviously chosen to side with Jacob Arminius and I have chosen John Calvin's side.

The problem most Armenians have is that they are unaware that they are Armenians.

The dividing factor is Armenians believe they are saved because they choose to believe and obey the gospel.

Calvinists believe that God choose to save His elect before he created the world.

As you can see, these two can't be true at the same time. One is a false unbiblical belief and the other one is biblically true and correct.

Here's the damning Biblical evidence, to blow the Arminian doctrine out of the water.

View attachment 262105 View attachment 262105

I think John Calvin may have said to much,..bible says those who talk to much will sin


😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

 

[Charlie_2024]

Why make God's word to be about what John Calvin thinks.

What is the whole world held in captivity to,

Why make Gods word to be about what Jacob Arminius thinks.

The whole world is held captive to the power of sin and Satan.

So I see your still clueless about what you actually believe. Well it's perfectly clear to me, that you're an Arminian and you don't even know it.

i have challenged any Arminian to to find a Biblical fault with Calvinism, so far I haven't come across anyone who can find a single fault with Calvinism. So I'll stick with the winning side until someone finds a single shred of evidence against it.

I'm glad I was able to help you with identifying the denomination you belong to.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Let's tackle total depravity first.

And each verse associated to it in this column

Starting with genesis 2:17

God said in verse 17 if ye eat from the tree of good and evil you will die for a reason, what reason would that be.

The reason is, disobedience deserves nothing less than death. So that's easy

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The reason is, disobedience deserves nothing less than death. So that's easy

there was another reason to do which was more important to God you know what that was

 

[Charlie_2024]

there was another reason to do which was more important to God you know what that was

Disobedience covers all of the other things, so yeah try again

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The reason is, disobedience deserves nothing less than death. So that's easy

what was the reason in genesis 2:18 this is right after genesis 2;17

That was more important to God than mans disobedience.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Disobedience covers all of the other things, so yeah try again

God covers all things not mans disobedience 😊

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Disobedience covers all of the other things, so yeah try again

17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.


What Was God most concerned by here Charlie.

Mans disobedience or something else.

Can you what that something else may be in verse 18

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Why make Gods word to be about what Jacob Arminius thinks.

The whole world is held captive to the power of sin and Satan.

So I see your still clueless about what you actually believe. Well it's perfectly clear to me, that you're an Arminian and you don't even know it.

i have challenged any Arminian to to find a Biblical fault with Calvinism, so far I haven't come across anyone who can find a single fault with Calvinism. So I'll stick with the winning side until someone finds a single shred of evidence against it.

I'm glad I was able to help you with identifying the denomination you belong to.

Quit fabricating Charlie answer the above post please 😊


😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

 

[PaulThomson]

OK, so our main disagreement is over Bible interpretations regarding salvation.

You believe Jacob Arminius nailed and I believe John Calvin nailed it. These two interpretations are diametrically opposed to each other and they have divided the Church into two camps. Every Christian must choose one of these sides, there's no middle ground or neutrality or third interpretation, we're all forced to choose a side.

You have obviously chosen to side with Jacob Arminius and I have chosen John Calvin's side.

The problem most Armenians have is that they are unaware that they are Armenians.

The dividing factor is Armenians believe they are saved because they choose to believe and obey the gospel.

Calvinists believe that God choose to save His elect before he created the world.

As you can see, these two can't be true at the same time. One is a false unbiblical belief and the other one is biblically true and correct.

Here's the damning Biblical evidence, to blow the Arminian doctrine out of the water.

View attachment 262105 View attachment 262105

I am not binary like you. I am neither Arminian nor Calvinist. Choose your favourite proof text from that menu, post it in response to this post, and let's assess it together in its context, to see whether it actually supports only your interpretation.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Why make Gods word to be about what Jacob Arminius thinks.

The whole world is held captive to the power of sin and Satan.

So I see your still clueless about what you actually believe. Well it's perfectly clear to me, that you're an Arminian and you don't even know it.

i have challenged any Arminian to to find a Biblical fault with Calvinism, so far I haven't come across anyone who can find a single fault with Calvinism. So I'll stick with the winning side until someone finds a single shred of evidence against it.

I'm glad I was able to help you with identifying the denomination you belong to.

Question.

You think he is an arminian based on what facts? I ask, because i know him, and he is most definitely not arminian.

And are you not doing what you claim he is doing except from a calvinist perspective?

As for an error in Calvinism.

Perseverance of the saints. - We do not persevere to the end. God actually keeps us, so we are secured until the end. In effect your teaching a works based gospel while denying it

But I do not want to discuss what Calvin thinks, He is a man,

can you discuss what people actually believe?

 

[CS1]

But there would be no blood of Jesus, without first having the elect to shed His blood for. You had the order back to front

"While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

It doesn't say while we were "elected," Christ died for us.

 

[PaulThomson]

Let's tackle total depravity first.

And each verse associated to it in this column

Starting with genesis 2:17

God said in verse 17 if ye eat from the tree of good and evil you will die for a reason, what reason would that be.

God did not say what you just said he said.

Gen. 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil , you shall not eat of it; for in the day thou eat thereof thou shalt surely die.

God does not imply "If ye eat from the tree of good and evil you will die for a reason.[/QUOTE]


God does not give any reason why they will die if they eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, apart from the reason being that they ate of the forbidden tree.. What he implies is "If you eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you will die for that reason: because you ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

What we can say about this verse is that it does not say anything about there being such a consequence to the first sin as total depravity. There is not a hint here of the concept of total depravity.

So, will you admit that this verse does not mention total depravity?

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

God did not say what you just said he said.

Gen. 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil , you shall not eat of it; for in the day thou eat thereof thou shalt surely die.

God does not imply "If ye eat from the tree of good and evil you will die for a reason.

he didn't say you would die for a reason, hmm what does you will surely die mean then

It's obvious that when they ate evil from the tree it entered into them. As in death entered into them and started cursing the law that God had given Adam and eve before they died

 

[PaulThomson]

he didn't say you would die for a reason, hmm what does you will surely die mean then

It's obvious that when they ate evil from the tree it entered into them. As in death entered into them and started cursing the law that God had given Adam and eve before they died

That is not obvious at all. The text doesn't say death entered into them. You are eisegeting your own thoughts into the text. I try to let the Bible speak for itself.

 

[Charlie_2024]

what was the reason in genesis 2:18 this is right after genesis 2;17

That was more important to God than mans disobedience.

Nothing was more important than obedience, I don't see wat the creation of the beasts has to do with disobedience. Perhaps we can stop playing games and let me know what your trying to say.

 

[Charlie_2024]

17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.


What Was God most concerned by here Charlie.

Mans disobedience or something else.

Can you what that something else may be in verse 18

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's not good for man to be alone so God created beasts to bare the burden of heavy lifting and plowing fields etc.

 

[Charlie_2024]

I am not binary like you. I am neither Arminian nor Calvinist. Choose your favourite proof text from that menu, post it in response to this post, and let's assess it together in its context, to see whether it actually supports only your interpretation.

Wait a minute, before I give you proof text. How about you tell us what this third option is, the Church has been bitterly divided over the two options and you have been holding out with the solution.

Please let us have the third mysterious option so the Church can unite once more and we all live happily ever after.

If you don't share your secret then it will prove you have nothing to offer apart from hot air

 

[PaulThomson]

Wait a minute, before I give you proof text. How about you tell us what this third option is, the Church has been bitterly divided over the two options and you have been holding out with the solution.

Please let us have the third mysterious option so the Church can unite once more and we all live happily ever after.

If you don't share your secret then it will prove you have nothing to offer apart from hot air

You won't understand it because you are stuck in a binary mindset.
You are evading. Post your favourite proof text from your menu and let's analyse it to see whether it supports what your lovely menu is claiming it supports.