Predestination is misunderstood...

[brightfame52]

Bright Frame....

If God wanted to have you alive during the age of Israel, and for you to be a Jew when you believed?
If God did want that for you?

He would have predestined your time to be alive on earth during the age of Israel.

As for us? God predestined us to be born during the Church age so that we can be the Bride of Christ in our resurrection.
On the other hand? Moses was not predestined to become the Bride of Christ..

Yes.... God sovereignly chose you to be resurrected with a body just like the Lords.
Other believers in history who were not predestined to be alive during the Church age will not be the Bride of Christ.

That is why it says that we were chosen IN Christ. Not simply 'chosen.'

​

Ephesians 1:3-4​

​

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has ​

blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in ​

Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to ​

be holy and blameless in his sight. "​

It does not say He chose us to saved. It says He chose us IN him.

Why in Him?

Where was Eve's body when Adam was created?
In Adam....

Where we Chosen?
In Christ!!!!!!

We are the "bride of Christ."
Only applies to those in the Church!




grace and peace ..........

You all over the place

 

[sawdust]

No. Innocent little babies die, too.

I know they die which is why I am asking someone who doesn't think we are born with the law of sin in our bodies how can they die if they never sinned? Only sinners die right?

 

[Stan_the_Man]

His body was formed from the elements of the earth. Our bodies are composed of those same elements. You're making stuff up now.

No, after making Adam's Body, God breathed His supernatural Spirit in to Adam which covered Adam's entire body.

Adam was never naked until after he sinned and only then did he not have any covering for his body.

You might want to go back and read Genesis again.

 

[selahsays]

All flesh bodies die. …of course, our spiritual bodies are immortal but not necessarily

I know they die which is why I am asking someone who doesn't think we are born with the law of sin in our bodies how can they die if they never sinned? Only sinners die right?

Everyone’s flesh body will die.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

I know they die which is why I am asking someone who doesn't think we are born with the law of sin in our bodies how can they die if they never sinned? Only sinners die right?

Only calvinist teach the false doctrine that babies are sinners.

I already posted proof from God's Word that show that is false doctrine.

Just because sin is in the world does not make the baby a sinner as the false doctrines of calvinism claim.

 

[brightfame52]

One cannot believe or make any other decision for that matter before they are even created or born.

You guys always claim God decided to condemn most people to hell for not reason whatsoever as they had not been created or born yet.

Here's some bible verses that prove limited atonement is not true:


Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Romans 1:19-21
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

The Father sovereignly decided to make man in His own Image which is why all men have free will. He said in His Word than we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29), and we are to be followers of God as dear children (Ephesians 5:1)

God's Word says man is without excuse (Romans 1:20), the grace that brings salvation has come upon all men (Titus 2:11-13)

God's Word says it's not God's will that any perish and He wants all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), and He has commanded men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), and has given every man faith (Romans 12:3)

Jesus said if He be lifted up He would draw all men until Himself (John 12:32), and Jesus has tasted of death for every man (Hebrews 2:9)

In light of all these scriptures, we can say for sure that limited atonement taught by John Calvin is false doctrine and is in opposition to what God says.

No, one does not die because they are in sin.

When Adam sinned, he lost his supernatural body so everyone born after him does not have a supernatural body.

That does not mean your body sins and you cannot control it as some falsely claim

God says it's appointed unto man to die once

Christians are called to walk after the Spirit not after the flesh and that's the game changer that enable us to not live after sin that some claim is not possible as an excuse to keep doing sinful behavior.

They'll tell you that they sin in word and deed every day and they just can't help it because they falsely believe they were born a sinner and the devil is laughing at them because that's the devil that started that false doctrine.






No, Adam was not deceived and he knew eating of that tree was sinful and he did it anyway.

satan is not forcibly overthrow Adam. Adam made the decision to disobey God.







That does not mean all the other people there that day were not chosen by God and the Lord prevented them from getting saved.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

It's God's will that ALL men get saved and NONE perish:

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

True when talking about salvation matters, but it took place before they existed. The only people who believe in Jesus Christ in time, are those who were predestinated before time. Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained[appointed, destined] to eternal life believed.

 

[brightfame52]

God does not count sin against babies, so until one grows to the point where they understand right and wrong God considers them to be without sin.

If original sin is true, then babies are born guilty of sin, totally depraved, destined for eternal punishment. All passages already studied disprove this. Now note specifically:

Psalm 106:37,38; Jeremiah 19:4,5 - In sacrificing babies to idols, people shed the blood of innocent people. But if the babies inherited Adam's sin, they would be guilty and worthy of death. [cf. Jer. 32:35]

Romans 7:9 - Paul (representative of people in general) was alive before sin came, but then he died. How, if people are totally depraved since birth? (cf. v11)

Hebrews 12:9; Zechariah 12:1; Ecclesiastes 12:7 - Our fleshly nature comes from our earthly fathers (like Adam). But God is the Father of our spirits. God gives the spirit and forms it within man.

Total depravity says man is "wholly defiled in ... soul and body." Does the sinless Father in heaven give us wholly defiled, totally depraved spirits? If the spirit comes from God, not from earthly parents, how can we inherit sin from our parents?

Matthew 19:14; 18:3 - The kingdom of God belongs to those who are converted and become like little children. But if little children are totally depraved, why should we become like them? Does conversion make us totally depraved?

Jesus prayed for children and blessed them (Mark 10:14-16), but He did not baptize them. They did not need baptism, because they were acceptable just as they were. But how could this be if they were born total depraved?

The Bible teaches that sinners must be baptized to be saved (Acts 2:38; 22:16; Mark 16:16; 1 Pet. 3:21; Rom. 3:6,4; Gal. 3:26,27).

The consequence of original sin is that babies who die without baptism are all lost eternally. But the Bible teaches that babies are innocent and need no baptism. So original sin is not be true.

You just say anything, but its a free country

 

[selahsays]

Our spiritual bodies are incorruptible (and immortal after the first resurrection).

 

[sawdust]

Not true.

Only calvinist teach the false doctrine that babies are sinners.

I already posted proof from God's Word that show that is false doctrine.

What's not true? Only sinners die not true, is that what you are saying?

No they don't.

No you haven't.

And you still haven't explained how a baby without sin dies.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

The only people who believe in Jesus Christ in time, are those who were predestinated before time

That's false doctrine!

God's Word teaches He wants ALL men to be saved so you are confusing foreknowledge with predestination.

God does not predestine anybody to go to hell, quit the opposite.

He actually predestined ALL people to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.

He had foreknowledge of ALL people before they were born right?

Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[selahsays]

What's not true? Only sinners die not true, is that what you are saying?

No they don't.

No you haven't.

And you still haven't explained how a baby without sin dies.

A baby without sin may die because they’re human and flesh bodies can succumb to sickness and disease, right?

 

[Stan_the_Man]

And you still haven't explained how a baby without sin dies.

Gods Word teaches that babies are innocent!

Psalm 106:37,38; Jeremiah 19:4,5 - In sacrificing babies to idols, people shed the blood of innocent people. But if the babies inherited Adam's sin, they would be guilty and worthy of death. [cf. Jer. 32:35]

You wouldn't be calling God a liar, would you?

 

[Stan_the_Man]

A baby without sin may die because they’re human and flesh bodies can succumb to sickness and disease, right?

Yes, which does not mean they died because they were a sinner

 

[Cameron143]

…but they were born in this second earth age.

What does the Bible say causes death?

 

[selahsays]

Yes, which does not mean they died because they were a sinner

right

 

[selahsays]

What does the Bible say causes death?

physical or spiritual?

 

[Stan_the_Man]

What does the Bible say causes death?

The first mention of death in the Bible is when God told Adam if he ate of that tree he would die.

When Adam ate of the tree he continued to live physically so the Lord was speaking of spiritual death which is being separated from God.

Adam was one with God until he sinned, then he died spiritually and became separated from God.

 

[Cameron143]

physical or spiritual?

Both.

 

[selahsays]

Both.

Well, lots of things cause physical death. But spiritual death is caused by rejection of the LORD. yes?

 

[Cameron143]

The first mention of death in the Bible is when God told Adam if he ate of that tree he would die.

When Adam ate of the tree he continued to live physically so the Lord was speaking of spiritual death which is being separated from God.

Adam was one with God until he sinned, then he died spiritually and became separated from God.

You don't believe he also began to age?