Predestination is misunderstood...

[FollowerofShiloh]

It is the Holy Spirit that uses the Word of God as the means to open up the eyes of the blind to see and to teach and guide into all truth (John 14:26, 16:13) just as He did to Lydia below.

Act 16:14 Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.

Christ said that no one can even see the Kingdom of God unless they have first been born again (John 3:3) How can someone therefore choose something they can not even see?

Here's the Proper order taught by Jesus:

We believe that Paul is the author of Hebrews.
From Paul: 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation? which began to be spoken through the Lord, and was confirmed for us by those that heard.

Let's look at this verse closer.

1. which began to be spoken through the Lord
2. and was confirmed for us by those that heard

Jesus spoke to His Disciples, they Heard, and then we see they CONFIRMED what Jesus said.

So what did Jesus say to them?

1. 47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

2. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

3. 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive

So Jesus said to His Disciples 1. Repent, 2. be Baptized, 3. receive the Holy Spirit

How did the Disciples confirm what Jesus said?

38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


So Paul, in Hebrews, says LOOK to what Jesus said and what the Disciples confirmed about Salvation.

Peter confirmed Jesus Words:
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

So Jesus said to His Disciples 1. Repent, 2. be Baptized, 3. receive the Holy Spirit

 

[maxamir]

No-one argues God chose us. He chose us to conform to His Son. He chose us to be adopted as His children. He chose us to have eternal life. What He did not choose was who would believe His word as true. He extended His grace to ensure we could make that decision of our own will, not His.

If what you say were true, then the Lord is doing the lousiest of jobs keeping that up because if He really chooses what we believe, then we should all believe the same thing.

Everyone does indeed choose whatever they will but Scripture confirms it is NOT God because every person is born spiritually dead as God had confirmed (Gen 2:17) when our first parents fell into sin and became cursed where the Holy Spirit was taken away from them and only restored by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone.

Thank God that He made me willing in the day of His power (Psa 110:3) for I would have never chosen Him unless He had first chosen me (John 15:16) as is confirmed further below.

Jas 1:18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.

Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[maxamir]

Nothing happens until you first HEAR the Gospel.

Only those who are given ears to hear actually hear the truth of the Gospel.

Mat_22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

 

[maxamir]

Who said they are godly?
YOU?
Who are YOU again?

I am a man who was once ungodly but by the grace of God have been made godly enough to lovingly warn you of the error that you are in.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Only those who are given ears to hear actually hear the truth of the Gospel.

Mat_22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Everyone is created in the Image of God and has the ability to hear the Gospel.

Even the SHEEP had to first be SHEEP before they could hear and know His voice.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I am a man who was once ungodly but by the grace of God have been made godly enough to lovingly warn you of the error that you are in.

You mean through Mercy, Grace, Love, and many other attributes that describe God.

 

[maxamir]

How can one choose to reject what they cannot see? If God does not show them, it is the Lord who is at fault. But we are shown in Romans 1 that God does indeed make them see, yet there are some who reject Him outright, long before the Gospel even has a chance to be presented.

Romans 1 also plainly teaches three times that God justly hands people over to the sin that they love and justly keeps them blinded to the truth.

Romans 3 explains why men do not choose God.

 

[maxamir]

Those are Jews, His People.

Jesus even said He only came for the Jews but then later He mentioned the Gentiles. But when this was Prophesied is for JEWS only.

the promise that God gave to Abraham was to all nations and Christ commanded His disciples to preach the Gospel to all creatures in the world.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

the promise that God gave to Abraham was to all nations and Christ commanded His disciples to preach the Gospel to all creatures in the world.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

I said to the Jews first

Those are Jews, His People.

Jesus even said He only came for the Jews but then later He mentioned the Gentiles. But when this was Prophesied is for JEWS only.

 

[maxamir]

Here's the Proper order taught by Jesus:

We believe that Paul is the author of Hebrews.
From Paul: 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation? which began to be spoken through the Lord, and was confirmed for us by those that heard.

Let's look at this verse closer.

1. which began to be spoken through the Lord
2. and was confirmed for us by those that heard

Jesus spoke to His Disciples, they Heard, and then we see they CONFIRMED what Jesus said.

So what did Jesus say to them?

1. 47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

2. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

3. 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive

So Jesus said to His Disciples 1. Repent, 2. be Baptized, 3. receive the Holy Spirit

How did the Disciples confirm what Jesus said?

38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


So Paul, in Hebrews, says LOOK to what Jesus said and what the Disciples confirmed about Salvation.

Peter confirmed Jesus Words:
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

So Jesus said to His Disciples 1. Repent, 2. be Baptized, 3. receive the Holy Spirit

God's will of command works towards His will of decree and the Gospel is the means that God uses to grant faith to His peole.

He commands what is impossible for men to do (Mark 10:26-27) in order for them to stop looking inside of themselves for an impossible righteousness but outside of themselves to Him alone who can make all things possible by grace alone which grants what God justly commands from all men through the foolishness of Gospel preaching.

1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

God's will of command works towards His will of decree and the Gospel is the means that God uses to grant faith to His peole.

He commands what is impossible for men to do (Mark 10:26-27) in order for them to stop looking inside of themselves for an impossible righteousness but outside of themselves to Him alone who can make all things possible by grace alone which grants what God justly commands from all men through the foolishness of Gospel preaching.

1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

I go by the Order God said them and His Disciples confirmed them. They can never be wrong!!

And Paul confirms ALL of this!!

So Paul, in Hebrews, says LOOK to what Jesus said and what the Disciples confirmed about Salvation.

Peter confirmed Jesus Words:
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said to His Disciples 1. Repent, 2. be Baptized, 3. receive the Holy Spirit

 

[maxamir]

Everyone is created in the Image of God and has the ability to hear the Gospel.

Even the SHEEP had to first be SHEEP before they could hear and know His voice.

Man was indeed originally created in the image as well as the likeness of God (Gen 1:26) which was very good (Gen 1:31) but after the Fall, God said that man was only evil continually (Gen 6:5) which confirms that our first parents lost the image of God which according to Scripture is indeed very good and like God because it is true righteousness, holiness and an intimate knowledge of God ( Eph 4:24, Col 3:10) and not simply man's humanity or status above the animals which you presume and everyone is born in the cursed image of our first parents (Gen 5:3) slaves to sin and Satan, his children, bearing his evil image and desperately need to be born again and made new creatures in Christ who is the Image of God (2 Cor 4:4) and restores His image to His people that He laid down His life for. This is why the Gospel is Good News indeed!

 

[maxamir]

You mean through Mercy, Grace, Love, and many other attributes that describe God.

Yes indeed, including His sovereignty in salvation.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Man was indeed originally created in the image as well as the likeness of God (Gen 1:26) which was very good (Gen 1:31) but after the Fall, God said that man was only evil continually (Gen 6:5) which confirms that our first parents lost the image of God which according to Scripture is indeed very good and like God because it is true righteousness, holiness and an intimate knowledge of God ( Eph 4:24, Col 3:10) and not simply man's humanity or status above the animals which you presume and everyone is born in the cursed image of our first parents (Gen 5:3) slaves to sin and Satan, his children, bearing his evil image and desperately need to be born again and made new creatures in Christ who is the Image of God (2 Cor 4:4) and restores His image to His people that He laid down His life for. This is why the Gospel is Good News indeed!

WRONG AGAIN!!

Look at why God allowed what happened in the Garden

21 in hope that the creation itself shall be freed from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.


Creation means EVERYONE as in EVERY HUMAN BORN!

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Yes indeed, including His sovereignty in salvation.

Thank God His sovereignty means EVERYONE like verse 21 confirms by PAUL in Romans 8.

 

[maxamir]

I go by the Order God said them and His Disciples confirmed them. They can never be wrong!!

And Paul confirms ALL of this!!

So Paul, in Hebrews, says LOOK to what Jesus said and what the Disciples confirmed about Salvation.

Peter confirmed Jesus Words:
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said to His Disciples 1. Repent, 2. be Baptized, 3. receive the Holy Spirit

how can a man repent when he loves his sin and how can a man believe when all he does is believe in himself?

It is impossible for man to do these things unless grace was first granted him to do so and that grace is given through the proclamation of the Gospel where the Holy Spirit makes alive His word to the dead sinner.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Php_1:29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

Act_11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Everyone does indeed choose whatever they will but Scripture confirms it is NOT God because every person is born spiritually dead as God had confirmed (Gen 2:17) when our first parents fell into sin and became cursed where the Holy Spirit was taken away from them and only restored by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone.

Thank God that He made me willing in the day of His power (Psa 110:3) for I would have never chosen Him unless He had first chosen me (John 15:16) as is confirmed further below.

Jas 1:18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.

Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

All you doing is stripping people of God completely.

Even tho people are born spiritualy dead, there still born with a nature that needs help.

There born with something that the lord protects, which is backed up by scripture.

So much so every child born has an angel that stares back into the face of God.

Further more when Adam and eve fell and sin entered in them causing death.

They still had the Truth in them.

This means we are all born with the truth in us.

Because if where born with what our ancestors have in them in one regard like spiritual death, and inherited sin


Then it also stands to reason we are born with what ever else they have.

what you propose is people are born with absolutely nothing.

Well if that was so what would the point be in saving us.

satan has nothing because there is no truth in him at all.

We have something when where born, we still have the truth in us.

 

[maxamir]

WRONG AGAIN!!

Look at why God allowed what happened in the Garden

21 in hope that the creation itself shall be freed from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.


Creation means EVERYONE as in EVERY HUMAN BORN!

every single human being is born into the bondage of corruption and the Gospel of hope is proclaimed to all in that creation.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

how can a man repent when he loves his sin and how can a man believe when all he does is believe in himself?

It is impossible for man to do these things unless grace was first granted him to do so and that grace is given through the proclamation of the Gospel where the Holy Spirit makes alive His word to the dead sinner.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Php_1:29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

Act_11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

The Gospel, the Sinner HEARS it like Paul said:
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”

when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation

This confirms
So Paul, in Hebrews, says LOOK to what Jesus said and what the Disciples confirmed about Salvation.

Peter confirmed Jesus Words:
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said to His Disciples 1. Repent, 2. be Baptized, 3. receive the Holy Spirit

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

every single human being is born into the bondage of corruption and the Gospel of hope is proclaimed to all in that creation.

Born into bondage doesn't remove Free Will.