Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[Mem]

Yeah, but only our Father knows what’s what, and He will judge fairly at the GWTJ.

Father has given judgment to the Son, who is our Husband! \/

 

[Cameron143]

They reasoned away the truth, to make it easier to reject.

Again sure. But that isn't blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

[Rufus]

@selahsays

Actually the only condition for believing is that Christ died for you . His being lifted up to die draws people He was lifted up for to believe.

So those people He didnt die for, will not believe, Jesus says of them Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. He died for His Sheep ! So His dying and their believing are in sync

Exactly! And since they're not sheep, they are "goats", and the goats of this age have been blinded by the evil one!

2 Cor 4:4
4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
NIV

Or as the more literal translations read:

2 Cor 4:4
4 in whom the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God;
YLT

And,

2 Cor 4:4
4 in whom the god of this world has blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving, so that the radiancy of the glad tidings of the glory of the Christ, who is [the] image of God, should not shine forth [for them].
Darby

In any translation, it's obvious that the lost are in very dire straits! Can the blind from birth heal themselves? But...such were all of us at one time! So...NRs need to explain how any of us ever managed to see (understand) the light of the glorious gospel in order to respond to it positively.

 

[Magenta]

Unbelief can be forgiven. But it can only be forgiven this side of the grave, just as every other sin.

So unbelief is not forgiven. Only belief frees us from the wages of sin.

 

[Magenta]

That’s a good question! I don’t know! But they definitely knew who Jesus was; they knew He was the Son of God. They still accused Him falsely—on purpose! …with the Holy Spirit standing right in front of them! Talking about blasphemy! Wow!!!

Jesus' warning to them about not believing Who He was, was dire. Doesn't sound like they did know.

Jesus' Words in John 8:23b plus 24b

 

[selahsays]

We understand this differently.

Oh yeah; I remember now. That’s okay. We’ll just press on as the Holy Spirit leads us.

 

[Rufus]

God so loved the world that He didn't die for the sins of the world.

Huh? Of course, he died for the sins of the world. After all, Jesus was sent into this world to save as many people as he died for. (See Jn 3:17)

 

[selahsays]

Jesus' warning to them about not believing Who He was, was dire. Doesn't sound like they did know.

Jesus' Words in John 8:23b plus 24b

Awesome scripture. It’s interesting because the Pharisees believed; they knew Jesus, and yet………

 

[Magenta]

Awesome scripture. It’s interesting because the Pharisees believed; they knew Jesus, and yet………

They did not believe Who Jesus was. That's why they accused Him of blasphemy, and wanted to kill Him.

 

[selahsays]

They did not believe Who Jesus was. That's why they accused Him of blasphemy, and wanted to kill Him.

We disagree on this one. They definitely knew who Jesus was.

 

[Rufus]

Via repentance. It is what God commands all to do.

Acts 17:30

And so "all people everywhere [will] repent" -- to whom God has graciously granted that repentance (Act 3:26; 5:31; 11:18).

 

[Magenta]

We disagree on this one. They definitely knew who Jesus was.

A demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed the man so that he could speak
and see. The crowds were astounded and asked, “Could this be the Son of David?” But when the Pharisees
heard this, they said, “Only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, does this man drive out demons.”

If they believed who He was, why are they accused of blasphemy?

Plus we are told it is only by the Holy Spirit of God that one can know and proclaim Him/Who He is.

 

[brightfame52]

Well, yes…. because those who would not accept Jesus’ call, doomed themselves. Even before the foundation of the world, they were never His sheep. Their father was the devil. Here it is in John 8:44-45:
"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. "But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.

I told you why they didn't believe, because they were not the Sheep Christ died for.

 

[Cameron143]

So unbelief is not forgiven. Only belief frees us from the wages of sin.

The cross frees us from the consequences of sin. When God brings salvation to to us in grace, faith is produced and we believe. God makes known to us what He has done for us and applied it to us or conferred it upon us in space and time.

 

[brightfame52]

Who are you to assume what I do and do not believe. Let me try this analogy. You have a 1 TON ball and chain (willful ignorant domination of sin) attached to you feet in the ocean, with no scuba diving equipment of any kind. God offers you a way out from drowning and want to remove the chains (offer of Salvation). You say no thanks you sink to the bottom and drown. End of Story.

Im going by your post. You have revealed to everyone what you believe. DUH

 

[Rufus]

We disagree on this one. They definitely knew who Jesus was.

The only thing most Jews "knew" (understood) was their unbiblical perception of who the Messiah would be, which is precisely why they rejected who Jesus actually was and, therefore, what his mission was. Most Jews were not expecting a lowly, humble, suffering servant type of Messiah as portrayed in Isaiah 53, for example; instead they wanted a strong and conquering and victorious kind of Messiah, on the order of king David, who would like David deliver the Jews from their enemies, which in this case would have been Rome. The Jews were not only blinded by their sin, but by their unfavorable and unwanted sociopolitical circumstances.

 

[Cameron143]

So unbelief is not forgiven. Only belief frees us from the wages of sin.

Unbelief is forgiven in all who believe.

 

[brightfame52]

Exactly! And since they're not sheep, they are "goats", and the goats of this age have been blinded by the evil one!

2 Cor 4:4
4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
NIV

Or as the more literal translations read:

2 Cor 4:4
4 in whom the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God;
YLT

And,

2 Cor 4:4
4 in whom the god of this world has blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving, so that the radiancy of the glad tidings of the glory of the Christ, who is [the] image of God, should not shine forth [for them].
Darby

In any translation, it's obvious that the lost are in very dire straits! Can the blind from birth heal themselves? But...such were all of us at one time! So...NRs need to explain how any of us ever managed to see (understand) the light of the glorious gospel in order to respond to it positively.

Correct, Christ didnt die for the goats, the tares, the children of the wicked one. Matt 13 38

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

He didnt lay down His Life for the tares !

 

[Magenta]

Unbelief is forgiven in all who believe.

I am not sure what you are trying to say. Of course believers are forgiven, and unbelievers are not.
That is Christianity 101. I have seen you "arguing" this way before and wonder what your point is.
You seem to be saying one thing but then contradict yourself.

 

[brightfame52]

Unbelief is forgiven in all who believe.

They believe because they had been forgiven, it wasnt laid to their charge. Anyone who doesnt come to believe in the True Christ, not the make believe christ that loved everyone and died for everyone and made salvation possible, thats a false christ, but the Christ who actually saved His People from their sins, from their unbelief, He didnt die for them.