the health gospel..?

[FollowerofShiloh]

Look at those eyes. Kind of strange for a Shepherd of God's People.

 

[Eli1]

I would only be guessing here.
But from your answer, you have never been to the States of Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas and witnessed the kinds of people who live there where this doctrine has made Copeland almost a billionaire.

Now that I think about it, maybe it's from all the crude oil seeping into their drinking water

That is correct. I've never been there and i don't plan to be there in the future either but this sort of perversion of the gospel as @maxwel said, happens because of our fallen nature. It's unavoidable.
I've never been to England either (and i don't want to go) to know that other crazy churches exist over there too where they have drag shows with LGBT groups who are almost half naked.

 

[Eli1]

Look at those eyes. Kind of strange for a Shepherd of God's People.

I can't believe people take him seriously. Very baffling but everyone is on their own journey i guess.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

This is actually a little more nuanced than most understand. While we all are still subject to death, debilitation and disease do not need to be a large consequence of this. I realize many will be taken aback by this initially, but it is true,
First, consider Moses. Deuteronomy 34:7...And Moses was an hundred and twenty years when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated...
Second, those who live according to biblical guidelines "generally" live healthier lifestyles. Vices generally tend to take years off a person's life expectancy and lend themselves to disease.
Third, one of God's means of correction is to afflict His children in a variety of ways; sickness and death amongst them. So if the "health" gospel is tied to holiness, there is an avenue for less frequent incidences of the need for correction, and possibly better health.
And finally, God actually tells us that He will heal us in the book of Isaiah. Most people will cite Isaiah 53 to back such a claim. I believe that primarily deals with spiritual healing and reconciliation with God. But in chapter 58 I believe God is actually speaking about physical healing for those who actually live according to the commandments as He actually intends them.
The chapter begins by God taking exception to His people's transgression because they seem to be observing His commandments, but are not. He does so by using the example of fasting. He tells them what true of them and then contrasts this with what He actually desires. Then, in verse 8, He tells them what will occur if they actually do as He desires. One of those things is that their health will spring forth speedily. This doesn't mean God is excluding any aspect of health, but it certainly would include physical health.
I'm not a name it and claim it guy, but there are great benefits from learning God's ways and living accordingly; both here and in the age to come.

From the moment I can remember as a wee tiny boy, being in my Grandfather's church and then my Dad's and so forth. I was privy to be on a lot of hospital visits, home visits, elderly visits, etc. I cannot remember meeting a true Saint of God who had memory issues or mental illness or things we associate to extremely old. They mostly died in their sleep or on their death bed looking forward to be with Jesus while letting go of their will to live here on earth. To me, that's a true Testimony of God having Favor for His children.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

That is correct. I've never been there and i don't plan to be there in the future either but this sort of perversion of the gospel as @maxwel said, happens because of our fallen nature. It's unavoidable.
I've never been to England either (and i don't want to go) to know that other crazy churches exist over there too where they have drag shows with LGBT groups who are almost half naked.

Just driving through those States has a weird feeling to them. When I would drive from the midwest to the west coast highway 40 was the best route. I hated entering those States and felt like a lead brick was lifted off me when we finally exited those States. You really have to be born there to appreciate it I guess. But it would not be for me lol

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I can't believe people take him seriously. Very baffling but everyone is on their own journey i guess.

He's worth mega millions. I can't believe someone would take money from their own pocket and support him.

 

[CarriePie]

I would only be guessing here.
But from your answer, you have never been to the States of Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas and witnessed the kinds of people who live there where this doctrine has made Copeland almost a billionaire.

Now that I think about it, maybe it's from all the crude oil seeping into their drinking water

I am an Okie and have never bought into Copeland or any of the other similar preachers. I don't know anyone else here who has either.
Crude oil keeps a lot of people employed here.

 

[Magenta]

Look at those eyes. Kind of strange for a Shepherd of God's People.

I can't believe people take him seriously. Very baffling but everyone is on their own journey i guess.

I agree... though I doubt he is a true shepherd...

Here's a vid...

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I am an Okie and have never bought into Copeland or any of the other similar preachers. I don't know anyone else here who has either.
Crude oil keeps a lot of people employed here.

I have done a lot of work for fracking, crude, electronic shock work. Just never lived in that part of the Nation.

 

[Eli1]

Here's a vid...

That's just a bad joke. Seriously.
I mean the topic of tongues is something which i have very different views on, but this guy is simply a joke.
Imagine giving money to this guy! Unreal.

 

[CarriePie]

Both sides of my family have been in Oklahoma a long time and both sides have worked in some capacity in the oil industry.
Very red state and a lot of good qualities, but the weather is terrible. We are a Second Amendment Sanctuary State....I'll stay here for that reason alone.

 

[stilllearning]

kenneth copeland blows covid away

I am a Charismatic. Grew up in that vane of the faith during the Charismatic renewal years and the Jesus movement. Come the 80's I made a conscious decision to go after sin and the pleasures of this world. Spent 3 decades plus some years in the world. God of course has a way that you can't kick against the pricks. So he broke me in everyway and left me nothing but the choice of him or continue paying the miserable cost of the life I chose.

So nowadays I feel like I have been frozen in time. I don't recognize many times the modern message of fellow Charismatics like myself. The message today is not what it was all those decades ago. I recall the days when my church had a service on Sunday morn and eve. Between service we would gather at each others house break bread talk of the Lord.

Mondays we had what we called Elders meetings where members in the church to lighten the load of the pastor would submit to a elder of their choice and he be the one you called first for prayer or counsel. Every Monday we would meet at their home break bread with others and do praise and worship then a bible study.

Thursday nights we have another service. Fridays and Saturdays we leased a building and we had a Christian coffee shop. Bringing in people from the streets, showing those old Christian bad acting movies.....LOL Live music, women in the church would bake and cook during the day. So that we could offer food and drinks to the lost and share Christ.

Saturday we had groups that went out from door to door, others met in the park downtown to just stop folks on the street and share Christ. Our whole focus back in those days was sharing Christ with the lost and sharing the love of God with each other.

Today I don't recognize my side of the aisle and what they now place emphasis on. I really don't understand all the importance of the cares of this world today and how the zeal of yesterday has been lost.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I agree... though I doubt he is a true shepherd...

Here's a vid...

WOW!
That guy also preaches we are gods walking around with same power as God. Of course that's easy to say when you're so wealthy your toilet papers looks like money, your dog houses are fully carpeted with central air conditioning, and have a staff who literally does everything for you.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Both sides of my family have been in Oklahoma a long time and both sides have worked in some capacity in the oil industry.
Very red state and a lot of good qualities, but the weather is terrible. We are a Second Amendment Sanctuary State....I'll stay here for that reason alone.

Guess I put my ole foot into my big mouth on that post I made. Sorry if I offended you. Sorry that I connected all residents of those States to being followers of Copeland.

And now that I am done graveling, I still don't like spirit that surrounds those States. Some say it's the influence of ancient Native Americans. I just know when I enter that area, I praise God when I exit it.

 

[Eli1]

I mean i don't understand why people do a lot of things and it's up to God to tell them on judgment day, but i usually try to keep an open mind for a lot of things so i can understand someone else's point of view.

So, if your whole ministry is based on "If you're rich you're healthy" then what do you do when you see some ultra rich person who gets cancer and dies?
I mean Steve Jobs had all the earthly things at his disposal at his feet. Yet, he still died from cancer. And he's just one example.

How can a ministry stand after this fact?

 

[Magenta]

I am a Charismatic. Grew up in that vane of the faith during the Charismatic renewal years and the Jesus movement. Come the 80's I made a conscious decision to go after sin and the pleasures of this world. Spent 3 decades plus some years in the world. God of course has a way that you can't kick against the pricks. So he broke me in everyway and left me nothing but the choice of him or continue paying the miserable cost of the life I chose.

So nowadays I feel like I have been frozen in time. I don't recognize many times the modern message of fellow Charismatics like myself. The message today is not what it was all those decades ago. I recall the days when my church had a service on Sunday morn and eve. Between service we would gather at each others house break bread talk of the Lord.

Mondays we had what we called Elders meetings where members in the church to lighten the load of the pastor would submit to a elder of their choice and he be the one you called first for prayer or counsel. Every Monday we would meet at their home break bread with others and do praise and worship then a bible study.

Thursday nights we have another service. Fridays and Saturdays we leased a building and we had a Christian coffee shop. Bringing in people from the streets, showing those old Christian bad acting movies.....LOL Live music, women in the church would bake and cook during the day. So that we could offer food and drinks to the lost and share Christ.

Saturday we had groups that went out from door to door, others met in the park downtown to just stop folks on the street and share Christ. Our whole focus back in those days was sharing Christ with the lost and sharing the love of God with each other.

Today I don't recognize my side of the aisle and what they now place emphasis on. I really don't understand all the importance of the cares of this world today and how the zeal of yesterday has been lost.

I have always found you to be very eloquent, and what you describe here, both the before and after, is quite poignant. And I am certainly glad you have returned to the fold. Those days of yore sound wonderful. I hope you can find such a church family home again...

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I am a Charismatic. Grew up in that vane of the faith during the Charismatic renewal years and the Jesus movement. Come the 80's I made a conscious decision to go after sin and the pleasures of this world. Spent 3 decades plus some years in the world. God of course has a way that you can't kick against the pricks. So he broke me in everyway and left me nothing but the choice of him or continue paying the miserable cost of the life I chose.

So nowadays I feel like I have been frozen in time. I don't recognize many times the modern message of fellow Charismatics like myself. The message today is not what it was all those decades ago. I recall the days when my church had a service on Sunday morn and eve. Between service we would gather at each others house break bread talk of the Lord.

Mondays we had what we called Elders meetings where members in the church to lighten the load of the pastor would submit to a elder of their choice and he be the one you called first for prayer or counsel. Every Monday we would meet at their home break bread with others and do praise and worship then a bible study.

Thursday nights we have another service. Fridays and Saturdays we leased a building and we had a Christian coffee shop. Bringing in people from the streets, showing those old Christian bad acting movies.....LOL Live music, women in the church would bake and cook during the day. So that we could offer food and drinks to the lost and share Christ.

Saturday we had groups that went out from door to door, others met in the park downtown to just stop folks on the street and share Christ. Our whole focus back in those days was sharing Christ with the lost and sharing the love of God with each other.

Today I don't recognize my side of the aisle and what they now place emphasis on. I really don't understand all the importance of the cares of this world today and how the zeal of yesterday has been lost.

You wouldn't be connected to the Calvary Chapel Movement since you mentioned the Jesus Movement btw? I have some great friends who are Pastors in that Movement. Interesting way they do things by going through the Bible from beginning to end.

I have met Skip Heitzig and Ed Taylor and couple others.

 

[CarriePie]

Guess I put my ole foot into my big mouth on that post I made. Sorry if I offended you. Sorry that I connected all residents of those States to being followers of Copeland.

And now that I am done graveling, I still don't like spirit that surrounds those States. Some say it's the influence of ancient Native Americans. I just know when I enter that area, I praise God when I exit it.

I am Seneca. So, I don't know what this talk of influence by ancient Native Americans is? Not all Native Americans were/are the same. Some tribes were warring tribes, some were peaceful and religious, etc. None were savages.

The government moved the Seneca and other great tribes here. Even so, today I praise the Lord that I'm here! And I praise the Lord for ancient Native Americans!

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I am Seneca. So, I don't know what this talk of influence by ancient Native Americans is? Not all Native Americans were/are the same. Some tribes were warring tribes, some were peaceful and religious, etc. None were savages.

The government moved the Seneca and other great tribes here. Even so, today I praise the Lord that I'm here! And I praise the Lord for ancient Native Americans!

If there's a possible way to offend you it seems I am one who can do that and do it with every post. I hate to even reply due to I might write something else wrong. But I started this and will stick it out and finish it.

It's just some of the things we've been told while traveling through the State of Oklahoma. When I stop for fuel or something to drink/eat I tend to ask the people around me questions. A couple of times I felt comfortable to say I feel a heaviness in this area or does the atmosphere around here always seem to be this way? And the typical response has been disturbed Burial Grounds. I've even went as far to ask do you believe that? And was told, Oh yes I do. Since I am not from there but made that trip 50 times or more I just take them at their word.

 

[Inquisitor]

is it Biblical to claim that 'real' or 'strong' or 'competent' Christians will never get sick or be subject to any disease?

we're all familiar with the prosperity gospel and the "wealth" arguments of it are trivially destroyed. but what about the "health" part?


discuss

I claim that real Christians never get sick when I am fit and healthy.

But I strongly oppose it when I get sick or unhealthy.

Horses for courses.

Mwhaaaaaaaaaaaaa.