Women Pastors

[Stan_the_Man]

Did you know that God's Word teaches that only men can be anointed / called to be pastors, deacons, church leaders?
Woman can assist and help in ministry, but the are not called by the Lord to be church leaders.

It's in the new testament for all the see:

Qualifications for Ministry

1 Timothy 3:1-13
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desires a good work.
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
One that rules well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Bishop - Strongs G1985
a superintendent, i.e. Christian officer in genitive case charge of a (or the) church (literally or figuratively): KJV -- bishop, overseer.

Deacons - Strongs G1249
from an obsolete diako (to run on errands; compare 1377); an attendant, i.e. (genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor (technically, a deacon): KJV -- deacon, minister, servant.

Titus 1:6-9
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

1 Timothy 2:12,13
I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve

Paul bases his viewpoint on creation. In v. 13 he says, "For Adam was first created, then Eve." In the least, this argument shows that Paul is not restricting his treatment to the church; it's a matter that is grounded in the constitutional differences between men and women, or at least in the order of authority that God had ordained.

In Gen 2-3, we see an interesting phenomenon relevant to 1 Tim 2. God teaches man, man teaches woman, the devil is out of the picture. That's Gen 2. But in Gen 3, we see the devil teaching woman, woman teaching man, and God is out of the picture. And this is Paul's argument: there is a divinely ordained order to things that, if disturbed, would bring deception and ruin due to not following the ways of the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:12 - Almost every commentator says that women should not pastor or teach over men. The argument the Apostle Paul gives for his statement "I do not permit a women to teach or to exercise authority over a man" is found in the following 2 verses. His argument is actually not from culture as some claim but from creation.

The validity of his argument and the weight of this statement plants its roots in the creation order. Which means that the statement he makes regarding women not teaching over men (essentially pastoring) stands for all-time and to all cultures everywhere, because he doesn’t appeal to culture for his reasons but the creation ORDER which is simply honoring the way God decided to create.

 

[wolfwint]

Did you know that God's Word teaches that only men can be anointed / called to be pastors, deacons, church leaders?
Woman can assist and help in ministry, but the are not called by the Lord to be church leaders.

It's in the new testament for all the see:

Qualifications for Ministry

1 Timothy 3:1-13
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desires a good work.
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
One that rules well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Bishop - Strongs G1985
a superintendent, i.e. Christian officer in genitive case charge of a (or the) church (literally or figuratively): KJV -- bishop, overseer.

Deacons - Strongs G1249
from an obsolete diako (to run on errands; compare 1377); an attendant, i.e. (genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor (technically, a deacon): KJV -- deacon, minister, servant.

Titus 1:6-9
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

1 Timothy 2:12,13
I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve

Paul bases his viewpoint on creation. In v. 13 he says, "For Adam was first created, then Eve." In the least, this argument shows that Paul is not restricting his treatment to the church; it's a matter that is grounded in the constitutional differences between men and women, or at least in the order of authority that God had ordained.

In Gen 2-3, we see an interesting phenomenon relevant to 1 Tim 2. God teaches man, man teaches woman, the devil is out of the picture. That's Gen 2. But in Gen 3, we see the devil teaching woman, woman teaching man, and God is out of the picture. And this is Paul's argument: there is a divinely ordained order to things that, if disturbed, would bring deception and ruin due to not following the ways of the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:12 - Almost every commentator says that women should not pastor or teach over men. The argument the Apostle Paul gives for his statement "I do not permit a women to teach or to exercise authority over a man" is found in the following 2 verses. His argument is actually not from culture as some claim but from creation.

The validity of his argument and the weight of this statement plants its roots in the creation order. Which means that the statement he makes regarding women not teaching over men (essentially pastoring) stands for all-time and to all cultures everywhere, because he doesn’t appeal to culture for his reasons but the creation ORDER which is simply honoring the way God decided to create.

This is a quit good statement, but today this will not find open ears in many churches and denominations.

 

[Chester]

Did you know that God's Word teaches that only men can be anointed / called to be pastors, deacons, church leaders?
Woman can assist and help in ministry, but the are not called by the Lord to be church leaders.

It's in the new testament for all the see:

Qualifications for Ministry

1 Timothy 3:1-13
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desires a good work.
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
One that rules well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Bishop - Strongs G1985
a superintendent, i.e. Christian officer in genitive case charge of a (or the) church (literally or figuratively): KJV -- bishop, overseer.

Deacons - Strongs G1249
from an obsolete diako (to run on errands; compare 1377); an attendant, i.e. (genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor (technically, a deacon): KJV -- deacon, minister, servant.

Titus 1:6-9
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

1 Timothy 2:12,13
I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve

Paul bases his viewpoint on creation. In v. 13 he says, "For Adam was first created, then Eve." In the least, this argument shows that Paul is not restricting his treatment to the church; it's a matter that is grounded in the constitutional differences between men and women, or at least in the order of authority that God had ordained.

In Gen 2-3, we see an interesting phenomenon relevant to 1 Tim 2. God teaches man, man teaches woman, the devil is out of the picture. That's Gen 2. But in Gen 3, we see the devil teaching woman, woman teaching man, and God is out of the picture. And this is Paul's argument: there is a divinely ordained order to things that, if disturbed, would bring deception and ruin due to not following the ways of the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:12 - Almost every commentator says that women should not pastor or teach over men. The argument the Apostle Paul gives for his statement "I do not permit a women to teach or to exercise authority over a man" is found in the following 2 verses. His argument is actually not from culture as some claim but from creation.

The validity of his argument and the weight of this statement plants its roots in the creation order. Which means that the statement he makes regarding women not teaching over men (essentially pastoring) stands for all-time and to all cultures everywhere, because he doesn’t appeal to culture for his reasons but the creation ORDER which is simply honoring the way God decided to create.

The Scriptures are clear for the reading: I agree with you.

 

[SunshineGirl]

Can woman teach children the Gospel?

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Did you know that God's Word teaches that only men can be anointed / called to be pastors, deacons, church leaders?
Woman can assist and help in ministry, but the are not called by the Lord to be church leaders.

It's in the new testament for all the see:

Qualifications for Ministry

1 Timothy 3:1-13
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desires a good work.
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
One that rules well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Bishop - Strongs G1985
a superintendent, i.e. Christian officer in genitive case charge of a (or the) church (literally or figuratively): KJV -- bishop, overseer.

Deacons - Strongs G1249
from an obsolete diako (to run on errands; compare 1377); an attendant, i.e. (genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor (technically, a deacon): KJV -- deacon, minister, servant.

Titus 1:6-9
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

1 Timothy 2:12,13
I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve

Paul bases his viewpoint on creation. In v. 13 he says, "For Adam was first created, then Eve." In the least, this argument shows that Paul is not restricting his treatment to the church; it's a matter that is grounded in the constitutional differences between men and women, or at least in the order of authority that God had ordained.

In Gen 2-3, we see an interesting phenomenon relevant to 1 Tim 2. God teaches man, man teaches woman, the devil is out of the picture. That's Gen 2. But in Gen 3, we see the devil teaching woman, woman teaching man, and God is out of the picture. And this is Paul's argument: there is a divinely ordained order to things that, if disturbed, would bring deception and ruin due to not following the ways of the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:12 - Almost every commentator says that women should not pastor or teach over men. The argument the Apostle Paul gives for his statement "I do not permit a women to teach or to exercise authority over a man" is found in the following 2 verses. His argument is actually not from culture as some claim but from creation.

The validity of his argument and the weight of this statement plants its roots in the creation order. Which means that the statement he makes regarding women not teaching over men (essentially pastoring) stands for all-time and to all cultures everywhere, because he doesn’t appeal to culture for his reasons but the creation ORDER which is simply honoring the way God decided to create.

Hillary would disagree.

 

[Dino246]

Did you know that God's Word teaches that only men can be anointed / called to be pastors, deacons, church leaders?

No, it does not. Do your homework and don’t make claims about the content of Scripture that cannot be supported by actual Scripture.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

No, it does not. Do your homework and don’t make claims about the content of Scripture that cannot be supported by actual Scripture.

The scriptures posted speak for themselves. A deacon, pastor, church leader must be the husband of one wife. Pretty hard to misunderstand that

If you think you have some "homework" that proves 1 Timothy 3:1-13, Titus 1:6-9, and 1 Timothy 2:12,13 to be false doctrine then post it up.

You'd think Jesus would have had at least a couple of women Apostles if it was God's will for women to be church leaders but He did not.

Can woman teach children the Gospel?

Yes, of course and they can witness to men as well although they should turn it over to a man fairly soon because men being witnessed to by women may think the women is game for some romantic interest

According to scripture God does not call women to be church leaders and in the old testament He never once has a woman priest and you'll notice Jesus picked men to be His Apostles because this is a position of authority the Body of Christ.

Hillary would disagree.

Hillary Clinton is a wolf seeking to devour the sheep so of course she wouldn't agree.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Other Scriptures to Consider

1 Corinthians 11:8,9
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

Genesis 2:18
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.


Other Thoughts
-------------------------------------

*In the Old Testament we do not find any evidence of the Lord ever appointing or ordaining female priests to enter in to the Holy of Holies or to make sacrifices for the sins of the people. This does not mean the Lord did not use women in a supporting role because there is plenty of instances in scripture of that.

*To see the scripture references above and still hold the position that it’s OK for women to be pastors over a church and / or to be in authority over men to be allowed to teach men is to discount the authority and validity of God’s Word as though what God says is meaningless. There’s a lot of that viewpoint going around.

*If we are going to start ignoring the parts of God’s Word that aren’t popular or politically correct that makes us pleasers of men instead of pleasing God. If we’re going to do that, then why bother reading God’s Word at all? Sadly, a growing number of those claiming to be Christians are doing exactly that in these end times.

*In John 4:16-18 Jesus told the Samaritan woman to go get her husband because it is God’s order (His ways of being and doing right) for a woman to be joined unto her husband (see Gen 2:24, Matt 19:5; Mark 10:7, Eph 5:31, 1 Cor 6:16)

*1 Corinthians 11:1-15 - These are actually fallen angels that Paul has in view in 1 Cor 11:10 in that the woman should be under authority as is God’s original order and intent when He created woman. This can partly be based on based on a Graeco-Roman culture in which the female head (and hair) could be viewed as displays of sexuality (and availability)... but is primarily a spiritual covering where man should be in authority to protect not only himself from the evil influence of fallen angels but to protect woman also.

The head covering can also be a means of maintaining order and reducing potential for lust/sexual angst within the male population (akin to forbidding micro mini skirts and low cut blouses in church now). The fallen angels were angels who fell because they had sex with the beautiful daughters of men. As such, Paul is enjoining this upon them for their own protection from these angels and from the carnal lust fallen angels seek to tempt men with.

More Thoughts
-------------------------------------

Concerning 1 Timothy 2:8-15
Paul gave two reasons, both of them are theological not cultural.

1. The created order: Adam was first created as an independent person, then Eve was created from his rib to be his helper. She was therefore not created to be independent of the man in authority.

2. Eve, and consequently all women, were placed under a penalty of the curse. This included pain in childbearing and that her husband would rule over her.

Paul's reasoning above is that all Christian women must submit to both of these things, at least during this age while the curse is still in effect. Yes, there are lots of women who know much more than their husbands about biblical teaching. However, if she transgresses THIS teaching, by teaching publicly in the assembly, then she is TEACHING false doctrine regardless of the content of her 'message.' This is because "teaching" is not only oral. There is a kind of 'teaching' that is by example, which is what she is supposed to be doing instead of teaching orally. She might be making great theological points with her words.

But there is one glaring point that she is making that completely undermines everything that is coming out of her mouth -- by her actions she is transgressing the biblical teaching regarding the role of Christian women by her public display of blatant insubordination to the commandments of Scripture. Notice in the above passage that these instructions immediately follow specific instructions on how Christian women are to dress and adorn themselves.

This EXAMPLE of CONDUCT is how godly Christian women are to make a statement. A women 'pastor' or other 'teacher' in the assembly by her conduct is no different than if a Christian woman came to the assembly immodestly in her underwear. It is a window into her character. She is not doing "what is proper for a woman professing godliness."

How does this reconcile with Deborah in Judges 4-5?
Even while Deborah was a "prophetess" (God spoke through her and people consulted her for advice) and she held a civil office, the office of the priesthood was reserved for males of the tribe of Levi exclusively. God is able to use whomever He chooses whenever He wishes, and on occasion He breaks with the "norms" in situations where those norms become unworkable.

However, man is bound by His commandments when it comes to holding offices (like OT priests or NT elders/pastors). And while there may be an occasional exception to the rule, we should not make the mistake of making an exception the rule while discarding the actual commandment. This is unfortunately what many in the Charismatic movement have done.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

What was a "prophetess"?

A prophetess was one through whom God spoke. But this has nothing to do with holding an office in the assembly.
What about Christian or spiritual books written by Christian women. Should I not read a book on spiritual topics if it's written by a woman?

Older Christian women should be teaching younger women, and then only those things that relate to what God commands of women. That does not all have to be "religious." There is a lot of practical teaching that godly older Christian woman can teach to the younger and less experienced. Here is what the Lord said thru the Apostle Paul:

1 Timothy 2:8-15
8 I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting;
9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing,
10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

Titus 2:1-5
1 But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine:
2 that the older men be sober, reverent, temperate, sound in faith, in love, in patience;
3 the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things--
4 that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.

So, here is the nuts and bolts of it:

1. Women are to act and dress very modestly, not wearing clothing jewelry, or anything that is not "modest." Modesty does not ONLY means covering up the private and semi-private parts. It also means "plain" -- the opposite of glamorous, bold, attention seeking, expensive, etc.

2. She is to adorn herself with "good works." That is not defined as preaching, or writing books, or being the star of the show, or a celebrity. It is being a servant to other individuals, particularly those within her own assembly, those who have a need.

3. She is not allowed to teach in mixed company, the reasons are as follows (all being theological not cultural)
a. God created Adam to be the leader, teacher, provider, and protector of his family, and Eve was created to be his "helper" to do all she can do to make his job easier.

b. The curse put on women included two things: pain in childbirth as a REMINDER that her husband must rule over her. (This is because her sin was that she blatantly acted against what Adam had told her that God required of them both, circumventing his God-given authority and role). So, you can ask Joyce Meyer if she had any pain during childbirth (or had to take medication to help ease the pain), and if she did, then she is under this curse which required her to be obedient to her husband in all things. And according to Paul, her not being allowed to teach in mixed company stems from this as well.

4. Women do have a role to play in teaching their children. But when they become "empty-nesters" they are to graduate to teaching adult Christian women. And the thing they are to teach is what they have themselves been practicing and have become proficient at -- how to successfully raise a family, honor and take care of her husband and, how to make her home and household prosper . IN other words, she should already be an expert at this, and already have a good track-record and reputation among the assembly as having lived out these things in her home life successfully. The thrust of her teaching is not theology, except as it relates to the above.

So, if you want to read Joyce Meyer or any other similar teacher, just brace yourself for being deceived by her. When Eve decided to go beyond the boundaries God established for women, Satan was very eager to to seize the opportunity to exploit her. And it is no different today. That does not mean she is not a good teacher, or might not have some good solid teachings. But if her LIFE does not reflect these things, she is disobedient to the Word, which negates anything good she might have to say.

Women were not allowed to hold any office in the assembly that involved teaching men or exercising any kind of authority over the men, (which would place her over her own husband in the assembly). However, the NT supports the role of woman serving in the office of "Deaconess," the female version of "Deacons."

Phoebe was a deaconess, as is plainly stated in Romans 16:1-2 (says she was a “servant” in a church – G1249 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary - attendant, servant or deaconess), which actually uses the Greek word "Deaconess." That this was an official office is clear by the clause, "of the assembly in Cenchrea."

Deaconesses were given responsibilities of assisting the female members, including counseling, etc., especially in things where male leadership would not be appropriate, such as one-on one instruction. And like Phoebe, some Godly women held enormous responsibilities regarding finances of the assembly. In this passage, she was sent from her home assembly to another assembly on "business." She was therefore no doubt the "treasurer" of that assembly, and could conduct finances in their name.

 

[MsMediator]

The curse put on women included two things: pain in childbirth as a REMINDER that her husband must rule over her. (This is because her sin was that she blatantly acted against what Adam had told her that God required of them both, circumventing his God-given authority and role). So, you can ask Joyce Meyer if she had any pain during childbirth (or had to take medication to help ease the pain), and if she did, then she is under this curse which required her to be obedient to her husband in all things. And according to Paul, her not being allowed to teach in mixed company stems from this as well.

Almost correct. The childbirth pain and husband ruling over wife are separate and independent curses; one is not a reminder of the other. Wives are still under the curse even if they do not have children.

 

[vassal]

Did you know that God's Word teaches that only men can be anointed / called to be pastors, deacons, church leaders?
Woman can assist and help in ministry, but the are not called by the Lord to be church leaders.

It's in the new testament for all the see:

Qualifications for Ministry

1 Timothy 3:1-13
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desires a good work.
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
One that rules well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Bishop - Strongs G1985
a superintendent, i.e. Christian officer in genitive case charge of a (or the) church (literally or figuratively): KJV -- bishop, overseer.

Deacons - Strongs G1249
from an obsolete diako (to run on errands; compare 1377); an attendant, i.e. (genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor (technically, a deacon): KJV -- deacon, minister, servant.

Titus 1:6-9
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

1 Timothy 2:12,13
I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve

Paul bases his viewpoint on creation. In v. 13 he says, "For Adam was first created, then Eve." In the least, this argument shows that Paul is not restricting his treatment to the church; it's a matter that is grounded in the constitutional differences between men and women, or at least in the order of authority that God had ordained.

In Gen 2-3, we see an interesting phenomenon relevant to 1 Tim 2. God teaches man, man teaches woman, the devil is out of the picture. That's Gen 2. But in Gen 3, we see the devil teaching woman, woman teaching man, and God is out of the picture. And this is Paul's argument: there is a divinely ordained order to things that, if disturbed, would bring deception and ruin due to not following the ways of the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:12 - Almost every commentator says that women should not pastor or teach over men. The argument the Apostle Paul gives for his statement "I do not permit a women to teach or to exercise authority over a man" is found in the following 2 verses. His argument is actually not from culture as some claim but from creation.

The validity of his argument and the weight of this statement plants its roots in the creation order. Which means that the statement he makes regarding women not teaching over men (essentially pastoring) stands for all-time and to all cultures everywhere, because he doesn’t appeal to culture for his reasons but the creation ORDER which is simply honoring the way God decided to create.

what you wrote is almost all from paul, many women did follow Christ and were faithful, it is true he did not choose any women as dosciples probably because at that time it was the way to do so to preach to the world and be listened to but I believe women are just as capable, just my take.

Cheers.

 

[John146]

What was a "prophetess"?

A prophetess was one through whom God spoke. But this has nothing to do with holding an office in the assembly.
What about Christian or spiritual books written by Christian women. Should I not read a book on spiritual topics if it's written by a woman?

Older Christian women should be teaching younger women, and then only those things that relate to what God commands of women. That does not all have to be "religious." There is a lot of practical teaching that godly older Christian woman can teach to the younger and less experienced. Here is what the Lord said thru the Apostle Paul:

1 Timothy 2:8-15
8 I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting;
9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing,
10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

Titus 2:1-5
1 But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine:
2 that the older men be sober, reverent, temperate, sound in faith, in love, in patience;
3 the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things--
4 that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.

So, here is the nuts and bolts of it:

1. Women are to act and dress very modestly, not wearing clothing jewelry, or anything that is not "modest." Modesty does not ONLY means covering up the private and semi-private parts. It also means "plain" -- the opposite of glamorous, bold, attention seeking, expensive, etc.

2. She is to adorn herself with "good works." That is not defined as preaching, or writing books, or being the star of the show, or a celebrity. It is being a servant to other individuals, particularly those within her own assembly, those who have a need.

3. She is not allowed to teach in mixed company, the reasons are as follows (all being theological not cultural)
a. God created Adam to be the leader, teacher, provider, and protector of his family, and Eve was created to be his "helper" to do all she can do to make his job easier.

b. The curse put on women included two things: pain in childbirth as a REMINDER that her husband must rule over her. (This is because her sin was that she blatantly acted against what Adam had told her that God required of them both, circumventing his God-given authority and role). So, you can ask Joyce Meyer if she had any pain during childbirth (or had to take medication to help ease the pain), and if she did, then she is under this curse which required her to be obedient to her husband in all things. And according to Paul, her not being allowed to teach in mixed company stems from this as well.

4. Women do have a role to play in teaching their children. But when they become "empty-nesters" they are to graduate to teaching adult Christian women. And the thing they are to teach is what they have themselves been practicing and have become proficient at -- how to successfully raise a family, honor and take care of her husband and, how to make her home and household prosper . IN other words, she should already be an expert at this, and already have a good track-record and reputation among the assembly as having lived out these things in her home life successfully. The thrust of her teaching is not theology, except as it relates to the above.

So, if you want to read Joyce Meyer or any other similar teacher, just brace yourself for being deceived by her. When Eve decided to go beyond the boundaries God established for women, Satan was very eager to to seize the opportunity to exploit her. And it is no different today. That does not mean she is not a good teacher, or might not have some good solid teachings. But if her LIFE does not reflect these things, she is disobedient to the Word, which negates anything good she might have to say.

Women were not allowed to hold any office in the assembly that involved teaching men or exercising any kind of authority over the men, (which would place her over her own husband in the assembly). However, the NT supports the role of woman serving in the office of "Deaconess," the female version of "Deacons."

Phoebe was a deaconess, as is plainly stated in Romans 16:1-2 (says she was a “servant” in a church – G1249 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary - attendant, servant or deaconess), which actually uses the Greek word "Deaconess." That this was an official office is clear by the clause, "of the assembly in Cenchrea."

Deaconesses were given responsibilities of assisting the female members, including counseling, etc., especially in things where male leadership would not be appropriate, such as one-on one instruction. And like Phoebe, some Godly women held enormous responsibilities regarding finances of the assembly. In this passage, she was sent from her home assembly to another assembly on "business." She was therefore no doubt the "treasurer" of that assembly, and could conduct finances in their name.

Phoebe was a servant not a deaconess. Remember, a deacon also is to be the husband of one wife.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It's in the new testament for all the see:

Very definitely. But that does not stop the apostates from going ahead and putting women in positions which are forbidden by God.

Even some so-called evangelical denominations have been ordaining women for some time. I wonder how they justify this disobedience. Interestingly enough, neither the Catholic Church nor the Orthodox churches have had women as "priests" since the beginning. While their priesthoods are unbiblical, their stand on female priests comes from the Bible.

We also need to be aware that females preaching on TV and radio are also out of line. A lot of false doctrines are promoted this way. Mary Baker Eddy ad Ellen G. White are good examples of women who should have remained silent.

 

[Nehemiah6]

...it is true he did not choose any women as disciples probably because at that time it was the way to do so to preach to the world and be listened to but I believe women are just as capable, just my take.

I believe you meant "apostles" and yes all the apostles were men. The issue of "capability" does not come up in this regard. God did have prophetesses, but it was not their capability but the Holy Spirit speaking through them.

However when it comes to spiritual leadership in the home and in the local church, God has clearly demarcated the roles of men and women. When it comes to salvation and the Body of Christ, there are no distinctions whatsoever. All are children of God by faith in Christ, and all may be saved by grace through faith.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Hillary would disagree.

In case someone didn't watch the short video, know who Hillary is and get my humor,
she was asked what she wanted to do if she were not pursuing politics. She said she would be a pastor. Lol

My response is yes, of a witches coven.

 

[Mem]

No, it does not. Do your homework and don’t make claims about the content of Scripture that cannot be supported by actual Scripture.

Welp, this rules out any possibility that you are the antichrist.

 

[Dino246]

Phoebe was a servant not a deaconess. Remember, a deacon also is to be the husband of one wife.

Deacon/servant… it’s the same Greek word.

 

[Dino246]

Almost correct. The childbirth pain and husband ruling over wife are separate and independent curses; one is not a reminder of the other. Wives are still under the curse even if they do not have children.

These are consequences, not curses. There is a difference.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Did you know that God's Word teaches that only men can be anointed / called to be pastors, deacons, church leaders?
Woman can assist and help in ministry, but the are not called by the Lord to be church leaders.

It's in the new testament for all the see:

Qualifications for Ministry

1 Timothy 3:1-13
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desires a good work.
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
One that rules well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Bishop - Strongs G1985
a superintendent, i.e. Christian officer in genitive case charge of a (or the) church (literally or figuratively): KJV -- bishop, overseer.

Deacons - Strongs G1249
from an obsolete diako (to run on errands; compare 1377); an attendant, i.e. (genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor (technically, a deacon): KJV -- deacon, minister, servant.

Titus 1:6-9
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

1 Timothy 2:12,13
I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve

Paul bases his viewpoint on creation. In v. 13 he says, "For Adam was first created, then Eve." In the least, this argument shows that Paul is not restricting his treatment to the church; it's a matter that is grounded in the constitutional differences between men and women, or at least in the order of authority that God had ordained.

In Gen 2-3, we see an interesting phenomenon relevant to 1 Tim 2. God teaches man, man teaches woman, the devil is out of the picture. That's Gen 2. But in Gen 3, we see the devil teaching woman, woman teaching man, and God is out of the picture. And this is Paul's argument: there is a divinely ordained order to things that, if disturbed, would bring deception and ruin due to not following the ways of the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:12 - Almost every commentator says that women should not pastor or teach over men. The argument the Apostle Paul gives for his statement "I do not permit a women to teach or to exercise authority over a man" is found in the following 2 verses. His argument is actually not from culture as some claim but from creation.

The validity of his argument and the weight of this statement plants its roots in the creation order. Which means that the statement he makes regarding women not teaching over men (essentially pastoring) stands for all-time and to all cultures everywhere, because he doesn’t appeal to culture for his reasons but the creation ORDER which is simply honoring the way God decided to create.

God Himself is a male, so Jesus being the Head of the Church and Christians His Bride shows that a woman's place is to be subordinate to her husband, just as the Bride of Christ (the Church) is subordinate to Him.

The Churches who have allowed women to become ministers are not obeying Gods created order

 

[Charlie_2024]

what you wrote is almost all from paul, many women did follow Christ and were faithful, it is true he did not choose any women as dosciples probably because at that time it was the way to do so to preach to the world and be listened to but I believe women are just as capable, just my take.

Cheers.

Being capable of preaching, doesn't justify allowing women to preach in any way. The Bible is very clear, that it's unacceptable. God must have a good reason for not allowing women to preach in the Church.