Predestination is misunderstood...

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Cameron143

Cameron143

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Genez said:
God has granted each one of us our own domain to use our volition within.
Its according to his knowing what our limits and strengths are.
That is why He is fair in judging and evaluating man.
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Ok. But fairness isn't an attribute of God. Justice is.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

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Dino246 said:
Okay… you understand the word as a verb. Now try to understand it as a noun.
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the object of the verb is to work his will in people,

Thats the noun of the verb.

Where as your object of the verb is the purpose of the will.

The will is his purpose, his will is everything, that's what your not seeing, as the object of the verb, ie the noun of the verb
 
P

PaulThomson

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Cameron143 said:
You mistake will with desire. If God were to will something and it did not come to pass, He is less than scripture claims He is. Read Daniel 4:35 again...He DOES His will. He doesn't simply purpose it, but brings it to fruition.
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Romans 7 specifically identifies will as desire prior to the accompanying actio or failure to act in accord with the desire. Where are you getting your definition of will from as used in the Bible.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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Cameron143 said:
It says who will have all men saved is not saying He wills people saved, but that He desires all men saved. That is, this is His preference. He takes no pleasure in the death and destruction of man. But He does not will it. It is not accurate to say He wills it. This is a distortion of meaning and grammar. All that God wills comes to pass.
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If God chooses as you stated in a prior post, then He denies salvation to others.

This is inescapable logical conclusion of this soteriology.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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Cameron143 said:
The sin that isn't forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Unbelief is a sin everyone has committed. If that isn't forgiven, no one would be saved.

People assign falsely to God and distort what is true of God. God is more than just love. You hear all the time that...my God would never send someone to hell. That this is inconsistent with a loving God. And yet, people in large numbers lift up their eyes in hell and He's still a loving God. People say it would be unfair of God not to give everyone an opportunity to get saved. But there have been people groups who never heard the gospel. Yet God remains just. He never claimed to be fair. It just shows how easily people can misrepresent God and assume things about Him that simply aren't true.

God gets just as much glory in the exercise of one attribute as another. He is equally glorified in the exercise of love as He is in the exercise of justice. This is a hard thing for many people to accept.
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All the attributes of God are within Him and He is Love, the justice of God is perfectly executed because He is love.

Very sad, the same ole same ole. :(
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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PaulThomson said:
Romans 7 specifically identifies will as desire prior to the accompanying actio or failure to act in accord with the desire. Where are you getting your definition of will from as used in the Bible.
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I have no problem with desire being an element of will. But desire alone is not will.

I asked earlier for an example of something that God willed that did not come to pass. Can you share one?

The element of performance in will is in Daniel 4:35...He DOETH His will...

Paul a man. He cannot ensure his will will be performed.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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Thunderrr-mental said:
why do saved people pray for God's will to be done in earth as it is in heaven

Don't forget your earth to. Infact your dust
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“As well” is “too”, not “to”. “In fact” is two separate words, and the next word is “you’re”, not “your”. These things are elementary.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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HeIsHere said:
All the attributes of God are within Him and He is Love, the justice of God is perfectly executed because He is love.

Very sad, the same ole same ole. :(
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Is God just? Is that a divine attribute?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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HeIsHere said:
If God chooses as you stated in a prior post, then He denies salvation to others.

This is inescapable logical conclusion of this soteriology.
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Incorrect. Men fit themselves for destruction. He must act in order for someone to be saved. He need do nothing for someone to perish. Men are born under wrath and condemnation already.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Cameron143 said:
Incorrect. Men fit themselves for destruction. He must act in order for someone to be saved. He need do nothing for someone to perish. Men are born under wrath and condemnation already.
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Men don't have to do anything to be fit for destruction.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Magenta said:
Men don't have to do anything to be fit for destruction.
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I was attempting to be consistent with the language of Romans 9. And while men need do nothing, all unsaved people do actually perform deeds that culminate in their destruction. This is similar to Jesus telling the Pharisees to fill up their measure.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Cameron143 said:
I was attempting to be consistent with the language of Romans 9. And while men need do nothing, all unsaved people do
actually perform deeds that culminate in their destruction. This is similar to Jesus telling the Pharisees to fill up their measure.
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Yes, I understand... and your subsequent sentences from the same post did rather make that point also.
 
Genez

Genez

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Cameron143 said:
You missed my assumption. I didn't say we can't purpose and do. I said we can't ensure it will happen. All you did was misrepresent what I said; not prove it to be false.
Read James 4:13-15 for the understanding of what I actually said.
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You can purpose to fall down on the floor... And, it will happen.


..............
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Magenta said:
Yes, I understand... and your subsequent sentences from the same post did rather make that point also.
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I apologize. After going through a number of posts having my words taken to mean other than I intended or having positions assumed that don't necessarily follow, I didn't recognize an affirming post. Thanks.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

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Dino246 said:
“As well” is “too”, not “to”. “In fact” is two separate words, and the next word is “you’re”, not “your”. These things are elementary.
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well maybe thou is is only seeing one object of the verb,

When it comes to will there is more than one object 😊
 
Genez

Genez

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Cameron143 said:
Ok. But fairness isn't an attribute of God. Justice is.
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1 John 1:9....

​
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."​


....and we have?


just
/jəst/
adjective

Based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair.


What is the synonym of just?

upright; equitable, fair, impartial ​


I said that just to be fair....

grace and peace ...............
 
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