Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
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@Stan_the_Man
Its actually part of the Gospel Paul preached from Christ 2 Cor 5:19-20
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
So you call the Apostles witness a lie
Its actually part of the Gospel Paul preached from Christ 2 Cor 5:19-20
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
So you call the Apostles witness a lie
Really? Then why is the extent of the atonement spoken of so often in restrictive terms?
Isa 53:4-6, 8b
4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all....8bFor he was cut
off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken...
11 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light [of life] and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
NIV
Matt 26:27-29
27 Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."
NIV
Luke 22:19
19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."
NIV
John 10:14-16
14 "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father — and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
NIV
Acts 20:28
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
NIV
Gal 1:4-5
4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
NIV
Eph 5:2
2 and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
NIV
Titus 2:14
14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
NIV
1 Peter 2:24
24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.
NIV
Rev 5:9
9 And they sang a new song:
"You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.
NIV
Context, pronouns, words and qualified statements mean something. For example, in Rev 5:9, the text doesn't say that Jesus purchased all men for God. Furthermore, the next clause below qualifies what John meant by "men", i.e. "from every tribe and language and people and nation." Or "many" doesn't equal each and every person in the world, etc.
Also, universal terms are often used in a restrictive sense in scripture. The bible is loaded with such examples which I'll be happy to supply such example in a separate post if anyone doubts this.
Next, as another poster has already pointed out, God would be unjust if he punished Christ for the sins of each and every person in the world, but then turned around and punished all unbelievers anyway! And what manner of doublespeak is this: My Son died for all...but not really!?
Finally, it's patently absurd to posit the idea that Christ died for everyone's sins in a distributive sense even even in the erroneous understanding of God's "foreknowledge". Since God knew in eternity before the foundation of the world who is elect are, why would he send his Son to also die for the non-elect?
Therefore, Christ's atonement is both limited and unlimited! It's limited quantitatively in terms of its scope of people for whom Christ died; yet it's also unlimited qualitatively since Jesus will lose none of his sheep for whom he has laid down his life.
Isa 53:4-6, 8b
4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all....8bFor he was cut
off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken...
11 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light [of life] and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
NIV
Matt 26:27-29
27 Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."
NIV
Luke 22:19
19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."
NIV
John 10:14-16
14 "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father — and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
NIV
Acts 20:28
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
NIV
Gal 1:4-5
4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
NIV
Eph 5:2
2 and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
NIV
Titus 2:14
14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
NIV
1 Peter 2:24
24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.
NIV
Rev 5:9
9 And they sang a new song:
"You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.
NIV
Context, pronouns, words and qualified statements mean something. For example, in Rev 5:9, the text doesn't say that Jesus purchased all men for God. Furthermore, the next clause below qualifies what John meant by "men", i.e. "from every tribe and language and people and nation." Or "many" doesn't equal each and every person in the world, etc.
Also, universal terms are often used in a restrictive sense in scripture. The bible is loaded with such examples which I'll be happy to supply such example in a separate post if anyone doubts this.
Next, as another poster has already pointed out, God would be unjust if he punished Christ for the sins of each and every person in the world, but then turned around and punished all unbelievers anyway! And what manner of doublespeak is this: My Son died for all...but not really!?
Finally, it's patently absurd to posit the idea that Christ died for everyone's sins in a distributive sense even even in the erroneous understanding of God's "foreknowledge". Since God knew in eternity before the foundation of the world who is elect are, why would he send his Son to also die for the non-elect?
Therefore, Christ's atonement is both limited and unlimited! It's limited quantitatively in terms of its scope of people for whom Christ died; yet it's also unlimited qualitatively since Jesus will lose none of his sheep for whom he has laid down his life.
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I will add Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
And the All in Vs 18 are one and the same as the Many in Vs 19, simply all of the many !
Also in both Heb 9 and Rom 5 references many has the definite article, specifying a specific definite people
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
And the All in Vs 18 are one and the same as the Many in Vs 19, simply all of the many !
Also in both Heb 9 and Rom 5 references many has the definite article, specifying a specific definite people
Exactly! 
And in the Heb 9 passage, the writer is very likely alluding to Isaiah 53.
I was going to include Rom 5:19 but many here are probably not familiar with literary device of Hebrew parallelism that Paul employed in that passage. But you're quite right. The "many" in v.9 qualifies the "all" in v.8.
And in the Heb 9 passage, the writer is very likely alluding to Isaiah 53.I was going to include Rom 5:19 but many here are probably not familiar with literary device of Hebrew parallelism that Paul employed in that passage. But you're quite right. The "many" in v.9 qualifies the "all" in v.8.
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Exactly! And in the Heb 9 passage, the writer is very likely alluding to Isaiah 53.
I was going to include Rom 5:19 but many here are probably not familiar with literary device of Hebrew parallelism that Paul employed in that passage. But you're quite right. The "many" in v.9 qualifies the "all" in v.8.
And in the Heb 9 passage, the writer is very likely alluding to Isaiah 53.I was going to include Rom 5:19 but many here are probably not familiar with literary device of Hebrew parallelism that Paul employed in that passage. But you're quite right. The "many" in v.9 qualifies the "all" in v.8.
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Why do you cherry pick verses and skip the most important ones? Only false doctrines do as such.
53:1 'Who would have believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of the LORD been revealed?
You must first BELIEVE in order to receive.
Look at Verse 26 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.”
27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you"
It's a Command.
If they do not yield to these 2 Commands they do not receive what Jesus is offering.
Same Command they must OBEY in order to receive.
LOOK how you ignore verse 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved
From verse 10 on is the promise they get AFTER THEY CHOOSE TO ENTER.
You have to choose to enter first to get the Promise!
This has NOTHING to do with what you claim. This is about WORKS.
1 Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— 2 and all the brothers who are with me,
To the churches of Galatia:
It's a Letter describing how it's possible they are saved.
You completely ignore the Command in verse 1 that emphasizes the reason for verse 2.
Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children
You have completely ignored verse 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men
The Greek word (to ALL) in verse 11 is πᾶσιν which literally means to EVERYONE
You completely ignore the most important part of Peter's entire statement in Chapter 2
4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious
If you actually did use context like the first paragraph states it would be impossible to make your error. But since you have rejected the true verses predicated for the basis of your verses you prove you present deception.
You are a cherry picker and have ignored EVERY TRUTH relating to the verses you present.
53:1 'Who would have believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of the LORD been revealed?
You must first BELIEVE in order to receive.
Look at Verse 26 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.”
27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you"
It's a Command.
If they do not yield to these 2 Commands they do not receive what Jesus is offering.
Same Command they must OBEY in order to receive.
LOOK how you ignore verse 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved
From verse 10 on is the promise they get AFTER THEY CHOOSE TO ENTER.
You have to choose to enter first to get the Promise!
This has NOTHING to do with what you claim. This is about WORKS.
1 Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— 2 and all the brothers who are with me,
To the churches of Galatia:
It's a Letter describing how it's possible they are saved.
You completely ignore the Command in verse 1 that emphasizes the reason for verse 2.
Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children
You have completely ignored verse 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men
The Greek word (to ALL) in verse 11 is πᾶσιν which literally means to EVERYONE
You completely ignore the most important part of Peter's entire statement in Chapter 2
4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious
If you actually did use context like the first paragraph states it would be impossible to make your error. But since you have rejected the true verses predicated for the basis of your verses you prove you present deception.
You are a cherry picker and have ignored EVERY TRUTH relating to the verses you present.
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Sorry, The scripture you gave does not say he did NOT lay his life down for the rest of the world
Jesus is quite clear. God so loved the WORLD.. he gave his only son, that WHOEVER (in that world) Believes in him, will never perish, but has eternal life. He was not send to judge the world. but that the world may be saved. Whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already
God is not a respector of persons. He either loves them all. or he loves none of them
Jesus is quite clear. God so loved the WORLD.. he gave his only son, that WHOEVER (in that world) Believes in him, will never perish, but has eternal life. He was not send to judge the world. but that the world may be saved. Whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already
God is not a respector of persons. He either loves them all. or he loves none of them
I think this verse also demonstrates that. Notice that to experience and to gain knowledge of salvation, one must first have had their sins remitted; that is, salvation must occur first and is given only to "his people", not everyone.
[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
