Is Speaking in Tongues still available today?

[FollowerofShiloh]

In fact, the prophets preached the Law and Preachers preach the Gospel. How does that end prophecy?

 

[Inquisitor]

It is not I who has done anything. Scripture teaches you plainly that three of the many spiritual gifts would cease (1 Cor 13:8-10). Tongues, prophecy, and supernatural knowledge. By implication the gift of interpretation of tongues would also cease and there would also be no more prophets. And since there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb, there are no more apostles.
It simply means various languages (a variety of languages e.g. Acts 2).

Which still leaves many spiritual gifts in place, including evangelists, pastors, and teachers (Eph 4:11). .

Here we go.

There are more than 12 apostles listed in the scripture!

Do you mean 12 apostles given to the nation of Israel (the Jews)?

Here is a simple list of the manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, and various kinds of tongues.

They are all supernatural in origin. God is the author.

Your including supernatural teaching, super-natural helps and supernatural administrations.

Rejecting apostles, prophets, miracles, and tongues?

Not all churches would agree with excluding healing, and especially miracles.

Given that each conversion is a miracle and so is life.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Jesus commanded the Apostles to make more. So how does prophecy and Gifts end when it's a continuation of making new disciples to continue what Jesus began?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

If we look at what Jesus said, He makes it clear to continue this until the ""conclusion of this age."""

19 Go, make disciples of all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
20 teaching them to observe all things whatever I commanded you. And lo, I am with you, all the days, to the conclusion of the age.


That "age" has not ended yet.

So how can Gifts be ended?

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Revelation shows us this age is still going.

So this "age" has not ended yet.

How are the Gifts ended then?

 

[Inquisitor]

1) No, they did not end in the first century.
2) All the gifts, ministries, and fruit, are still active today.

I was an atheist and in the hospital with an unbreakable asthma spasm. A pastor came to visit, prayed for me, and the spasm broke instantly. The next day I prayed for God to give my my prayer language, and I immediately began to speak in tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 "There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. [present tense, after Christ was crucified] There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing [see above] by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines."

Notice that this is written in the present tense, long after Jesus was sacrificed.

Wisdom is still active.
Knowledge is still active.
Faith is still active.
Healing is still active.
Miraculous powers are still active.
Prophecy is still active.
Distinguishing between spirits is still active.
Speaking in different kinds of tongues is still active.
The interpretation of tongues is still active.

Those who doubt simply haven't experienced them or witnessed them.

There is no doubt whatsoever that the gifts, ministries, fruit, (manifestations), that you select. Are entirely based on the church organization that you belong to.

Obviously everyone will select miracles automatically. Life itself has a supernatural origin. God actively works throughout His creation at all times, miracles take place everyday. We just don't notice or understand.

Without any doubt, wisdom, knowledge, faith, and prophecy, will be included.

All through my Christian life I have encountered many Christians from an array of churches. Sometimes a Christian will be speaking and touching a supernatural knowledge, on a topic. Unknowingly utilizing their ministry without realizing they have that ministry.
I am sure that many readers have noticed these kind of events and God's hand at work.

I do believe that the extent of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit are always in operation. Whether someone recognizes this fact or not.

 

[Inquisitor]

Not sure what you mean. But I firmly believe demons are very active today, the Power of God is very active, and that the Gifts are all current and present.

It is whether folk notice what is taking place or not. Obviously, we are involved in a spiritual war and our weapons are not of the flesh.

2 Corinthians 10:4
For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses.

 

[Nehemiah6]

There are more than 12 apostles listed in the scripture!

The Bible explicitly states that there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb, and Christ said that the twelve apostles will sit on twelve thrones ruling the twelve tribes of Israel.

In Acts 14:14 Barnabas is included with Paul as an "apostle" but in the sense of "a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders". Acts 4:36,37 shows that Barnabas was not really an apostle in the strict sense of the word, but sold his land and laid the money at the apostles feet. In Galatians 1:19 Paul calls James, the Lord's brother, an "apostle" in the broader sense also, since we know that none of the Lord's brothers were actually apostles.

 

[Niki7]

"Interpretation of Tongues" (and the other spoken gifts) is essentially identical to "Prophesy", in that the words in the common language are supplied directly to your mind by the Holy Spirit, and all YOU do is speak them as they come.

If the speaker is making ANY PERSONAL CONTRIBUTION to the spoken message, then it's corrupt, and not to be trusted.

Sounds good on paper, but since so much false is out there, who is going to stand up and call out false when it happens?

I have been in (sadly) a good number of services where OBVIOUS false tongues/translations occur and it is just allowed to go on

There is an interesting passage in scripture that tells us that the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets:

29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is seated, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder, but of peace—as in all the churches of the saints.
I Corinthians 14

We also find Paul saying let the prophets (plural) speak by 2 or 3....but where do we find that in practice? Apparently, Paul is trying to ensure agreement as some kind of safety device to avoid the false. Discernment, is not an opinion.

I believe there are safeguards written into the instructions but when they are ignored, as so often happens, then it is anyone's guess as to what is true and what is not true. You may very well already be familiar with what I say here.

 

[Niki7]

Prove me wrong by the BIBLE then like I use for my proofs?

I do not see the point in continuing with you as you gave no proof of what you say. Your verses you offered as proof, do not say what you want them to say.

Perhaps you have a rare translation that the rest of us do not share.

 

[Inquisitor]

The Bible explicitly states that there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb, and Christ said that the twelve apostles will sit on twelve thrones ruling the twelve tribes of Israel.

In Acts 14:14 Barnabas is included with Paul as an "apostle" but in the sense of "a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders". Acts 4:36,37 shows that Barnabas was not really an apostle in the strict sense of the word, but sold his land and laid the money at the apostles feet. In Galatians 1:19 Paul calls James, the Lord's brother, an "apostle" in the broader sense also, since we know that none of the Lord's brothers were actually apostles.

I would disagree.

Paul was specifically a super apostle to the Gentiles.

The 12 apostles were sent to the Jews only.

Galatians 2:9
And recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.

Paul also wrote a third of the New Testament.

The scripture disagrees with you.

 

[Inquisitor]

Sounds good on paper, but since so much false is out there, who is going to stand up and call out false when it happens?

I have been in (sadly) a good number of services where OBVIOUS false tongues/translations occur and it is just allowed to go on

There is an interesting passage in scripture that tells us that the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets:

29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is seated, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder, but of peace—as in all the churches of the saints.
I Corinthians 14

We also find Paul saying let the prophets (plural) speak by 2 or 3....but where do we find that in practice? Apparently, Paul is trying to ensure agreement as some kind of safety device to avoid the false. Discernment, is not an opinion.

I believe there are safeguards written into the instructions but when they are ignored, as so often happens, then it is anyone's guess as to what is true and what is not true. You may very well already be familiar with what I say here.

A very good point.

The chaos and false prophecy would be enormous.

I guess God knows better.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

It is whether folk notice what is taking place or not. Obviously, we are involved in a spiritual war and our weapons are not of the flesh.

2 Corinthians 10:4
For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses.

It's like people with mental illness even in Jesus day were considered possessed but today scientists call it disorders. And science has the majority convinced flukes can happen so no one but "believers in God" see miracles.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I do not see the point in continuing with you as you gave no proof of what you say. Your verses you offered as proof, do not say what you want them to say.

Perhaps you have a rare translation that the rest of us do not share.

The Bible is specific that only those with the Holy Spirit Gift of Interpretation can understand speaking in tongues. That also means a language linguistic/translator "does not" have that ability. Which makes sense when we consider the "natural man/without God" does not understand God. So what is inspired by God, which the Holy Spirit gives the "utterance" to speaking in tongues can "only" be understood by those with the Holy Spirit Gift of Interpretation.

Now everything I mentioned can be found in Romans and Corinthians.
1. speaking in tongues only understood by God and not natural man
2. natural man/linguistic/translator cannot understand God

 

[Niki7]

A very good point.

The chaos and false prophecy would be enormous.

I guess God knows better.

I have had a kind of baptism by fire when it comes to the false and nothing I would have inflicted upon myself. Basically a false pastor who had a known trouble causing so called evangelist come to his church because, and I quote "he brings in lots of people". When I asked him how he could have such a person come to his church, that was his response.

This is a travesty and not a true man called by God to shepherd sheep. I was totally unaware of what could happen in a church when a person endowed with trust can manipulate, use and basically endanger people spiritually, emotionally and even physically to some extent, so I engaged in the false not knowing what it really was.

Making a long story short, many people were harmed, myself included and this 'evangelist' was kicked out of his denom and exposed for what he was. But the harm was done and I suspect that even to this day people suffer because of his demonic renderings. I know of a number of stories myself and I was away from God for some years due to this event.

I am super cautious. I will not let anyone lay hands on me, tell me what they believe is God speaking for me, or any other common practice we find in some churches today. All a result of the damage I suffered by a someone who should never have been allowed in any church. It goes on today. We have scandals all over the place...the NYC branch of Hillsong for example....the pastor there involved in sexual scandals. How many has he hurt? God knows.

I'm just trying to make a point of how false teaching....false anything...damages people that God loves. BUT, we all have an obligation also to study and understand. Thing is, people seem to love flash and instant results. They never last.

 

[Niki7]

The Bible is specific that only those with the Holy Spirit Gift of Interpretation can understand speaking in tongues. That also means a language linguistic/translator "does not" have that ability. Which makes sense when we consider the "natural man/without God" does not understand God. So what is inspired by God, which the Holy Spirit gives the "utterance" to speaking in tongues can "only" be understood by those with the Holy Spirit Gift of Interpretation.

Now everything I mentioned can be found in Romans and Corinthians.
1. speaking in tongues only understood by God and not man
2. natural man/linguistic/translator cannot understand God

What are you on about? Have I said a thing about interpretation? Trust me, you are not my teacher.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

What are you on about? Have I said a thing about interpretation? Trust me, you are not my teacher.

If a natural man cannot translate speaking in tongues then it cannot be a natural human language. If it was then they could translate it.

From linguistics:
Mar 12, 2015 — These so-called “tongues” are not real languages. The speakers are basically talking gibberish

But we KNOW God understands so they are "real language only God speaks, not what humans speak."

 

[Niki7]

If a natural man cannot translate speaking in tongues then it cannot be a natural human language. If it was then they could translate it.

7000 known languages. take your pick. whatever LOL!

 

[Inquisitor]

It's like people with mental illness even in Jesus day were considered possessed but today scientists call it disorders. And science has the majority convinced flukes can happen so no one but "believers in God" see miracles.

That's the way God designed this creation.

The manifestation of the Holy Spirit in all ways, shapes, and forms. Is for the building of the church and that church is a supernatural church. The Holy Spirit governs the church and we can obey and run with the Holy Spirit. Or we can dig our heals in and attempt to run the church ourselves.

On the topic of mental illness which the majority of people have, in my opinion. It is just suppressed and hidden from others.
The problem is mental illness is divided into spectrums of specific mental conditions. You may be lightly touched and have one or more symptoms on say the autistic spectrum. You don't have to be fully autistic, just somewhere on the spectrum. Same goes for every other mental illness.

I have heard and seen far too much in life to not realize that. The insane run the asylum that I inhabit and I cannot leave. Because someone threw the keys away. Just look at the political class running for election. A good sample of the wider population.

Do you think Biden, Trump, Putin, are sane?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

7000 known languages. take your pick. whatever LOL!

From linguistics:
Mar 12, 2015 — These so-called “tongues” are not real languages. The speakers are basically talking gibberish

But we KNOW God understands according to Corinthians so they are "real language only God speaks, not what humans speak."