I apologize. I was using the natural man as opposed to the spiritual man. I truly don't understand how there is a natural man who is not still in the fallen estate.
And corruption, as we discussed before is in every aspect of man...mind, heart, and will. That's why every part is dealt with in salvation.
The other things we have discussed before and we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Which reminds me of this-the ongoing battle within the believer-
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
I love this "forgotten translation"
Rom 7:7 What then shall we say? That the Torah is considered as chet (sin)? Chas v'shalom! Nevertheless, I would not have experienced chet (sin) except through the Torah; for I would not have known chamdanut (covetousness, greediness) if the Torah had not said, LO TACHMOD ("Thou shalt not covet" SHEMOT 20:17).
Rom 7:8 But Chet (Sin), seizing its opportunity through the mitzvoh (commandment), stirred up all manner of chamdanut (covetousness) in me. For in the absence of the Torah, Chet (Sin) is dead.
Rom 7:9 And in the absence of the Torah I was once alive. But when the mitzvoh (commandment) came [BERESHIS 2:16-17), Chet (Sin) became alive,
Rom 7:10 and I died. The mitzvoh (commandment) intended as the Derech L'Chayyim (Way to Life) proved for me a means to mavet (death).
Rom 7:11 For Chet (Sin), seizing its opportunity through the mitzvoh (commandment), deceived me and, through the mitzvoh (commandment), killed me [BERESHIS 3:1-6].
Rom 7:12 So that the Torah is kedoshah (holy) and the mitzvoh (commandment) is kedoshah and yasharah and tovah.
Rom 7:13 Did that which is good, then, become mavet (death) to me? Chas v'shalom! But Chet (Sin), it was Chet, working mavet (death) in me through that which is tovah, in order that Chet might be shown as Chet (Sin), and in order that Chet through the mitzvoh (commandment) might become chata'ah gedolah ad m'od (utterly sinful).
Rom 7:14 For we have da’as that the Torah is Ruchanit (Spiritual, of the Ruach Hakodesh); but I am of the basar (fallen humanity) sold under the power of (slave master Chet Kadmon) Chet.
Rom 7:15 For I do not have da’as what I do. For that which I commit is not what I want; no, it is what I hate that I do!
Rom 7:16 But if that which I do is what I do not want, I agree with the Torah that the Torah is good.
Rom 7:17 But now it is no longer I doing this, but [the power of] Chet (Sin) which dwells within me.
Rom 7:18 For I have da’as that there dwells in me, that is, in my basar (my fallen humanity enslaved to Chet Kadmon) no good thing; for the wish [to do what is right] lies ready at hand for me, but to accomplish the good is not.
Rom 7:19 For I fail to do good as I wish, but HaRah (The Evil) which I do not wish is what I commit.
Rom 7:20 But if what I do not wish is that which I do, it is no longer I doing it but [the power of] Chet (Sin, Chet Kadmon, Original Sin) which dwells within me (cf. Ro 8:7-8).
Rom 7:21 I find then it be a law that for me who wishes to do HaTov (The Good), that for me HaRah (The Evil) lies ready at hand.
Rom 7:22 For I rejoice, I have simcha Torah in the Torah of Hashem, so far as the inner man is concerned,
Rom 7:23 But I see another Chok (decree, law) in my natural capacities at milchamah (war) with the Torah of my mind and making me a prisoner to the Chok (law) of Chet (Sin) which is [a power] in my natural capacities.
Rom 7:24 Wretched man am I! Who will deliver me from the body of this mavet (death)?
Rom 7:25 Hodu l'Hashem (thanks be to G-d) baMoshiach Yehoshua Adoneinu. So then I myself with my mind serve the Torah of Hashem and with my basar I serve the Chok of Chet (the Law of Sin). [T.N. The total spiritual turnaround here described is when the conviction of the intellect, emotion, and will “obey from the heart the form of doctrine laid out here in Scripture” as we are born anew in the humanity of the new Man and die to the old depraved Adam.]
Now I know many are going to say-"Noooo! This was Paul BEFORE his conversion"-opening
another can of worms.
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