the Sabbath

[Cameron143]

You obviously disagree with my post, what I said it is Christ power in us and it His work in us (which is what you also said) but I continued . . .and in Christ we would be obedient to God’s law. So you agree with everything but the being obedient to God’s law.

So. . .I guess you mean this

So all we have to do is believe, but we do not need to be obedient to God’s law
Need to be born again, but can also be disobedient to God’s law

You might consider guidance of the scriptures because it all comes back to obedience to God which for some reason people resist so much, like they did in scripture. In scripture it connects believing with obedience Heb 4: 3,6 John 3:18-20 and reborn to being without sin Romans 6 and sin is breaking God’s law. 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 so again reborn means one is obedient to God’s law if we are to follow the scriptures.

People like smooth doctrine that tickles the ear 2 Tim 4:3 they want to be their own teachers instead of having Christ 1 John 2:6 and the guidance of the Holy Spirit John 14:15-18. If Christ is residing in us we wouldn’t be rebelling against God’s law. Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

We are probably too far apart in our beliefs to come to any understandings and that’s ok. I wish you well in seeking Truth to God’s Word.

That's not at all what I am saying. The first part is correct. The only stipulation for salvation is belief. There are no stipulations for staying saved.
There are evidences as to whether one is actually saved or not. But once one is born again, what exactly is the process for being unborn again? Once one has eternal life, how is something eternal become uneternal?
Now all this is not to say that one who is saved will not be obedient to the law. They will obey the law. But obedience will not be through personal endeavor, but results from the work the Spirit does in us and the discipline we receive of the Father. It remains all of grace. He who begins the work in us is faithful to continue it. He will never leave us or forsake us.

 

[mailmandan]

That's not at all what I am saying. The first part is correct. The only stipulation for salvation is belief. There are no stipulations for staying saved.
There are evidences as to whether one is actually saved or not. But once one is born again, what exactly is the process for being unborn again? Once one has eternal life, how is something eternal become uneternal?
Now all this is not to say that one who is saved will not be obedient to the law. They will obey the law. But obedience will not be through personal endeavor, but results from the work the Spirit does in us and the discipline we receive of the Father. It remains all of grace. He who begins the work in us is faithful to continue it. He will never leave us or forsake us.

1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

 

[Cameron143]

1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

Grace simply isn't enough for some.
Here's something else I've been considering lately. God has told us He will never leave us or forsake us. These words are of course are meant to encourage us through difficult times. But they also negate any possibility that we will ever be separated from God. There are those who teach that while God cannot separate Himself from us, we can separate from Him. How is that possible if He won't go away? Don't know why but I've been particularly blessed considering this verse recently.
BTW...how is retirement going? Has it started?

 

[Inquisitor]

This goes around my question. Can you answer yes or no?
I understand it was a serious error. But to be condemned can carry with it a number of meanings.

Paul confronted Cephas to his face and rebuked him for corrupting the gospel. A very serious charge.

14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all...

Cephas had distorted the gospel of grace into obedience to the law, a legalist gospel.

Did you notice Paul is using Peter's pre-Christian name, Cephas?

 

[Cameron143]

Paul confronted Cephas to his face and rebuked him for corrupting the gospel. A very serious charge.

14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all...

Cephas had distorted the gospel of grace into obedience to the law, a legalist gospel.

Did you notice Paul is using Peter's pre-Christian name, Cephas?

I understand the serious nature of perverting the gospel. But if Peter was actually under condemnation, he either lost his salvation or never actually had it. Are you suggesting either of these 2 things are true?

 

[Inquisitor]

I understand the serious nature of perverting the gospel. But if Peter was actually under condemnation, he either lost his salvation or never actually had it. Are you suggesting either of these 2 things are true?

It depends on how serious the charge against Peter is.

Why does Paul tell the Galatians about Cephas and Cephas making the same mistake, as the Galatians are making?

Why does Paul tell the Galatians that if they follow the law, they have fallen from grace?

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.

Cephas was in the state of having fallen from grace, an enemy of the church.

The Galatians were committing the very same mistake Cephas had made, fallen from grace.

 

[Inquisitor]

I understand the serious nature of perverting the gospel. But if Peter was actually under condemnation, he either lost his salvation or never actually had it. Are you suggesting either of these 2 things are true?

Read my previous reply.

 

[mailmandan]

Grace simply isn't enough for some.
Here's something else I've been considering lately. God has told us He will never leave us or forsake us. These words are of course are meant to encourage us through difficult times. But they also negate any possibility that we will ever be separated from God. There are those who teach that while God cannot separate Himself from us, we can separate from Him. How is that possible if He won't go away? Don't know why but I've been particularly blessed considering this verse recently.
BTW...how is retirement going? Has it started?

My retirement begins June 1st.

 

[gb9]

My retirement begins June 1st.

congrats. hope you enjoy it!!

 

[Cameron143]

It depends on how serious the charge against Peter is.

Why does Paul tell the Galatians about Cephas and Cephas making the same mistake, as the Galatians are making?

Why does Paul tell the Galatians that if they follow the law, they have fallen from grace?

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.

Cephas was in the state of having fallen from grace, an enemy of the church.

The Galatians were committing the very same mistake Cephas had made, fallen from grace.

He was certainly in grave sin. So let me ask it this way: can someone be saved and lose their salvation?

 

[Inquisitor]

He was certainly in grave sin. So let me ask it this way: can someone be saved and lose their salvation?

According to Paul, certainly they can fall from grace.

Paul warned the Galatians that they would fall from grace, if they persisted with the law.

Unless you have an alternate interpretation of the following verse.

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.

The meaning of the verse is straight forward.

 

[Inquisitor]

My retirement begins June 1st.

Best day of your life.

Free from the slavery of working everyday.

 

[gb9]

According to Paul, certainly they can fall from grace.

Paul warned the Galatians that they would fall from grace, if they persisted with the law.

Unless you have an alternate interpretation of the following verse.

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.

The meaning of the verse is straight forward.

read this in my daily devotional recently, great stuff, really great stuff.

 

[Cameron143]

According to Paul, certainly they can fall from grace.

Paul warned the Galatians that they would fall from grace, if they persisted with the law.

Unless you have an alternate interpretation of the following verse.

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.

The meaning of the verse is straight forward.

Falling from grace can simply mean not acting according to grace. Severed from Christ can simply mean loss of fellowship and blessing. But it can't mean a saved person isn't saved anymore. That would mean God did leave them and forsake them.
Do you understand fall from grace to mean lose salvation or evidence they never really had salvation?

 

[TMS]

Your interpretation of Romans 3:31 is corrupt.

You inherited a corrupt interpretation and you ran with it.

Paul is talking to the Jews in Rome in Romans 3:31.

You either accept Christ crucified as the reason for your salvation, or you reject it.

Either you accept salvation by grace through faith, or you reject it.

The works of the law have no place in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

A simple question???
Can you love Jesus so much that you want to obey the law?
Can you accept salvation by grace and obey the law because you love Jesus?

Do faith and works need to be seperated? Or made to oppose each other.

 

[Inquisitor]

Falling from grace can simply mean not acting according to grace. Severed from Christ can simply mean loss of fellowship and blessing. But it can't mean a saved person isn't saved anymore. That would mean God did leave them and forsake them.
Do you understand fall from grace to mean lose salvation or evidence they never really had salvation?

Did God leave them or did they choose to depart themselves?

 

[Inquisitor]

A simple question???
Can you love Jesus so much that you want to obey the law?
Can you accept salvation by grace and obey the law because you love Jesus?

Do faith and works need to be seperated? Or made to oppose each other.

You have the text in front of you.

Galatians 2:16
Nevertheless, knowing that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law; since by works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.

Peter, Barnabas, the Galatians, were all in a dire situation, perhaps fallen from grace.

Galatians 3:21-22
For if a law had been given that was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. But the Scripture has confined everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Your a sinner whether you obey the law or not, God has confined you under sin automatically. Game over.

The interpretation of the phrase "the law" won't be of any help. As a Christian touch the law and die.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

No one is rejecting Paul’s scripture. Paul just never contradicted Christ, nor Himself as

That's not at all what I am saying. The first part is correct. The only stipulation for salvation is belief. There are no stipulations for staying saved.
There are evidences as to whether one is actually saved or not. But once one is born again, what exactly is the process for being unborn again? Once one has eternal life, how is something eternal become uneternal?
Now all this is not to say that one who is saved will not be obedient to the law. They will obey the law. But obedience will not be through personal endeavor, but results from the work the Spirit does in us and the discipline we receive of the Father. It remains all of grace. He who begins the work in us is faithful to continue it. He will never leave us or forsake us.

We haven't received eternal life yet, only God knows who is written in the Book of Life as He is our righteous Judge. Once He comes all of our fates will be sealed eternally Rev 22:11

If Christ is in us/we have a relationship with Him He imputes His righteousness and therefore we would be willing and opening to any commandments He gives us, the same ones He kept and taught and He is our example and He will only lead us to His standard of righteousness Psa 119:172 John 15:10. Many want Christ and ant His blessings, but don't want His standard of living and don't have a willing and moldable heart. This is called rebellion, and The Holy Spirit will call on us to come out of rebellion if we can hear His voice calling us Heb 3:7-8 but many prefer darkness, then coming to His truth and all of His commandments are His standard of Truth and Righteous Psa 119:151 Psa 119:172 and His work Exo 32:16

 

[mailmandan]

The Sabbath is listed in the spoken words at Mt Sinai.

The Sabbath is definitely a work of the law.

Any attempt by the human will to obey a law is a work of the law.

Unfortunately, you selected one of the heavier works of the law to follow.

You must be kidding yourself.

Of course the Sabbath is a work of the law. Exodus 31:12 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13 “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’

Matthew 12:5 - Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?

John 7:23 - If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath?

Someone recently shared this article below on a different Christian forum which makes some very good points.

Are the Sabbath laws binding on Christians today? (gty.org)

 

[vassal]

You obviously disagree with my post, what I said it is Christ power in us and it His work in us (which is what you also said) but I continued . . .and in Christ we would be obedient to God’s law. So you agree with everything but the being obedient to God’s law.

So. . .I guess you mean this

So all we have to do is believe, but we do not need to be obedient to God’s law
Need to be born again, but can also be disobedient to God’s law

You might consider guidance of the scriptures because it all comes back to obedience to God which for some reason people resist so much, like they did in scripture. In scripture it connects believing with obedience Heb 4: 3,6 John 3:18-20 and reborn to being without sin Romans 6 and sin is breaking God’s law. 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 so again reborn means one is obedient to God’s law if we are to follow the scriptures.

People like smooth doctrine that tickles the ear 2 Tim 4:3 they want to be their own teachers instead of having Christ 1 John 2:6 and the guidance of the Holy Spirit John 14:15-18. If Christ is residing in us we wouldn’t be rebelling against God’s law. Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

We are probably too far apart in our beliefs to come to any understandings and that’s ok. I wish you well in seeking Truth to God’s Word.

They follow another, it is not Chtist.

Christ was clear he said the law and commands would never change;
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The meaning being is clear and requires no interpretation, many have chosen the wide path that leads to death instead of following the narrow path that leads to eternal life;

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.