Predestination is misunderstood...

[Everlasting-Grace]

Attack? That’s a hoot. Catholic? Nope, new versions are more RCC. God‘s ord defines itself. No need for a Greek lexicon. Do you believe a translation can be inspired? Be careful how you answer.😉

Well I KNOW the kjv is not inspired.

If it was again, It would say when the greek said

no need to go to the greek? In what world? Your reading an interpretation.. not an inspired word.

But hey, remain in blindness,, deny we have been perfected forever, and are being sanctified this very moment and will continue until we die.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I realize that's what you believe. That's OK. I believe there is more to be understood than you have come to understand.

You yourself believe people Where saved in the old testament.

And yet we don't see many accounts where by a prophet as said directly to a person like Saul, the Holy spirit will change you personally

So on what grounds are you saying the people where saved in the old testament.

Prophets, priests, the Israelites the hebrews,

Jesus going down to paradise and raising the dead who has been obedient.

People who had a protective hedge put around them.

But yet I can't think of one of those account where by they where told the holy spirit will change them personally.

I think the issue here is you believe you receive salvation the moment you believe Jesus is lord.

Where as I believe because.of.hundreds of scriptures you've only just started to be saved at that point.

And honestly Cameron when you look at how many people say the things they do, have they really received salvation upon first belief.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It's you who is willfully rejecting being baptised not me.

And also willfully rejecting predestination

Rejecting baptism?

if you mean rejecting that we need to do the WORK of water baptism to be saved. That would be correct.

We are saved by Grace through faith.. period

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Free will is not in the Bible. I do not define things. I allow Scripture to do that. But since it is not there...

I am glad you see the error of saying that since we are made in God's image, we automatically have His qualities.

Its not?

Chose this day who you will serve is not in the Bible?

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

1. Can you tell me where I ever said saul was saved?
2. I am unsure what Heb 6 has to do with the conversation.

If saul was saved, He is still saved

If he was not. He is in hades awaiting Judgment

This post was not addressed to you.

But I would not be surprised if you also reject baptism as part of being saved

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Do you see making choices, and having free will, as the same thing?

I was under the impression that you acknowledged a distinction...

Free will just means I can make decisions and chose which one I will follow

we do it every day of our lives.

You can not make choices without free will. You would only be able to make one choice. And that choice would be the choice imposed on you.

 

[sawdust]

Why can't I just be taking a scriptural point of view? Do you believe I'm incapable of reasoning through the scriptures under the aegis of the Spirit? My ideas are my own. Like us all, my ideas have been formed by many influences and teachers, but what I believe is my best understanding of truth. Calvin would be one of the least of those influences.

Man in his natural state can know of God which is why he is unexcusable. But he cannot know God intimately because he is dead spiritually.

Your last 2 statements are what I previously posited. Once regenerated, and becoming a partaker of the divine nature, the gospel reveals the love of God in Christ. The only reasonable outcome of such divine grace is faith.

Bit testy aren't we?

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. You don't get saved and then believe the Gospel.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

You want to take a scriptural point of view then try lining up your thinking with scripture.

Believing the Gospel is what saves you because this is what God has determined to do.

We are not saying the same thing. I don't give a hoot whether you want to call it Calvin, Reformed or pigs can fly ... the notion that we are made alive before we can believe the Gospel is a notion that follows that school of thought and is not biblical.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Everlasting-Grace said:
Saul was rejected as king. Not salvation

Amen:

Don't overlook "Samuel's salvation", and "from paradise":

"And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to​

bring me up?...​

​

...Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into​

the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and ​

thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host​

of Israel into the hand of the Philistines. "​

(1Sa 28:15-19 AV)​

​

not "across the abyss," (Luke 16:19-26-30) but, paradise = salvation,
Correct?

Amen.

This was not Samuel this was demon pretending to be Samuel summoned by a witch.

A witch can not raise the dead. Only Christ can.

Yet another logical fallacy from you.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Why can't I just be taking a scriptural point of view? Do you believe I'm incapable of reasoning through the scriptures under the aegis of the Spirit? My ideas are my own. Like us all, my ideas have been formed by many influences and teachers, but what I believe is my best understanding of truth. Calvin would be one of the least of those influences.

Man in his natural state can know of God which is why he is unexcusable. But he cannot know God intimately because he is dead spiritually.

Your last 2 statements are what I previously posited. Once regenerated, and becoming a partaker of the divine nature, the gospel reveals the love of God in Christ. The only reasonable outcome of such divine grace is faith.

This again is nonsensical.

God is the one who draws us, and teaches us, The HS helps us understand, he does nto need to go against his own justice and make a dead person who is dead due to the penalty of sin and make them alive to teach them his gospel.

and he will not make them alive until the penalty of sin is removed.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You say it's my doctrine, which is highly ignorant, scripture says believe and be baptised to be saved, ( two things.

Believe and love ( two things)

Repent and be baptised everyone of you. Two things.

I don't believe you have been baptised yet.

It says we are saved by being baptised with God

We need to not replace spirit baptism with baptism in water by mere man.

That is blasphemy

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I'll try another way. There are choices God has made for us. We didn't choose to be born and we can't unborn ourselves. We are made a particular race. We didn't choose it and can't undo it.
Does this mean our wills are inhibited?

No

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Free will just means I can make decisions and chose which one I will follow

we do it every day of our lives.

You can not make choices without free will. You would only be able to make one choice. And that choice would be the choice imposed on you.

free will means you can say sod of to most things, as you generally do.

Making a choice is different to free will.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

It says we are saved by being baptised with God

We need to not replace spirit baptism with baptism in water by mere man.

That is blasphemy

have you been baptised

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

This post was not addressed to you.

But I would not be surprised if you also reject baptism as part of being saved

I was saved by being baptized by God (romans 6, 1 cor 12, gal 3)

I got baptized in water a year later.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Bit testy aren't we?

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. You don't get saved and then believe the Gospel.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

You want to take a scriptural point of view then try lining up your thinking with scripture.

Believing the Gospel is what saves you because this is what God has determined to do.

We are not saying the same thing. I don't give a hoot whether you want to call it Calvin, Reformed or pigs can fly ... the notion that we are made alive before we can believe the Gospel is a notion that follows that school of thought and is not biblical.

Amen

But as many as have recieved hin to THEM he gave the right to become children of God

we are made alive, adopted into the family of God because when he came, we recieved him and did not reject him

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

free will means you can say sod of to most things, as you generally do.

Making a choice is different to free will.

Making a choice is the result of free will

without free will. You can not make a choice

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I was saved by being baptized by God (romans 6, 1 cor 12, gal 3)

I got baptized in water a year later.

You got baptised a year later but call it blasphemy.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

have you been baptised

I was baptised twice

Once By God himself into Christ

and a year later by my pastor In water

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You got baptised a year later but call it blasphemy.

No

I did not get baptised to be saved, I got baptised because I was saved

if you say water baptis is required to be saved, thats blasphemy

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Making a choice is the result of free will

without free will. You can not make a choice

making a choice has nothing to do with free will.

You make a choice to stop your children behaving wrongly with the wrong free will