Predestination is misunderstood...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#961
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#961
Shepherd said:
Not always
Example:
Joshua 24:15........as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Click to expand...
cherry picking will not save you either,

You can only serve the lord if you have faith.

Then your faith must be refined and be completed with salvation.

A dead person can not receive salvation by himself it must be given.

And a spiritualy dead person can ask untill there screaming in the face to receive salvation. If they willfully reject God then the wages for sin is death.


And faith must be given to
 
Shepherd

Shepherd

Active member
#962
May 11, 2022
247
81
28
#962
Here's another example of "devising our way".....

Genesis 3:6 6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#963
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#963
tylerbones1313 said:
I don't believe in Predestination, OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved), or Unconditional Eternal Security.

Free Will: Many passages that speak of human free will and responsibility, such as Joshua 24:15, Deuteronomy 30:19, and Revelation 22:17. Predestination contradicts free will, making salvation predetermined and human choices meaningless.


To: Everyone

My Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Noone on Earth brings new revelation, that isn't already revealed through the Word of God, which is fullest revelation given to man. Through the moving and operation of the Holy Ghost, I Pray what we say here brings the truth of these Revelations, truth by truth, or precept upon precept, to the heart of the hearer. Lay what we say before the feet of Jesus (Word of God) and compare, the Bible is Always truth, so if they don't match, we need to reevaluate our stance. What we say or do here will have lasting impact upon the believer and sinner alike. We most certainly have freedom of speech, but any true christian will weigh what they say against the Word of God and if they don't agree God is not in error, and we need to pray for understanding. Those that have more meat of the Word can help those who are struggling, if done with humility, peace and love. I don't mind a peaceful debate, but when we start to argue amongst each other that is not the Spirit of God. God Bless and Peace to you all. (This signature is in general and not pointing fingers at anyone at anytime. God Bless.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...
there is no such thing as a human free will that saves anyone.

And there is no such thing as human free will cancelling out predestination from the lord.

If the lord decides to save you he will.
 
T

tylerbones1313

Active member
#964
May 1, 2022
565
156
43
#964
Thunderrr-mental said:
there is no such thing as a human free will that saves anyone.

And there is no such thing as human free will cancelling out predestination from the lord.

If the lord decides to save you he will.
Click to expand...
Not if you don't want Him to!! He will not save you by force!
 
Shepherd

Shepherd

Active member
#965
May 11, 2022
247
81
28
#965
Thunderrr-mental said:
there is no such thing as a human free will that saves anyone. Human freewill does NOT save anyone. that is true.

And there is no such thing as human free will cancelling out predestination from the lord.

If the lord decides to save you he will. God "decided" to offer salvation to everyone, all they have to do is believe on Jesus. That is not a "work" and there is no merit credited to mankind for believing. Trusting Jesus to save you from Hell is a totally selfish act on our part. It's not even an "act", it's simply believing in your heart. Only believe: that's all he asks.
Click to expand...
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#966
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,485
113
62
#966
Does the natural man possess a heart like the one described in Jeremiah 17:9?
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#969
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#969
tylerbones1313 said:
Not if you don't want Him to!! He will not save you by force!
Click to expand...
you can keep up this false pretence all you like.

The very fact that you say if I don't want to be saved I don't have to be, is a clear utter denial, and disobedience.

Along with @Shepherd who has joined the band wagon of posting blank ignorant responses.

If the lord wills it you will live. And you will do this and that.

He would not will you to say I can reject the lord if i like.

That is something satan would say.

Regrettably people live in denial all there lifes.

Scripture clearly says you can not be certain what tomorrow brings and you need the lord to will your steps.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#971
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#971
Thunderrr-mental said:
he was sent into exile, and God would not speak to him. Saul clearly states That God is no longer speaking to him.

It no different to God Saying to the Israelites I will no longer hear your prayers until you welcome the lord.

It's no different to God not answering prayers in the 8 separate verses i posted regarding, God no longer answering prayers of people who have walked with him.

Why is it so difficult to see that faith comes before salvation.
Click to expand...
Who said faith came after salvation?
you have not proved to me Saul ever had faith hence I fail to see your point?
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#972
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#972
John146 said:
Soooo, if it doesn’t fit your private interpretation then it’s wrong?😂
Click to expand...
Private interpretation. Are you Catholic?

Any scholar can look at the Greek and see the present tense word used to denote we are continuing to be sanctified. As apprised to the word perfected. Which is a perfect verb denoting it was a completed action

You want to ignore a fact to continue to idolize your bible feel free

Don’t attack those of us who actually study to show ourselves approved. And rightly divide the word of God
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#973
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
#973
Rufus said:
The penalty of sin is removed at the point of faith at which time justification simultaneously takes place.

Regeneration itself is an act of grace! When Jesus raised Lazarus from his tomb, that wasn't an act of grace?

Again, spiritually dead people have no spiritual ability to do anything pleasing to God. Read Romans 3.
Click to expand...
You’re right it is an act of grace. Just as justification and all salvation is an act of Grace. But it is through faith
God does not raise us spiritually while still under the penalty of sin. That woukd
Go against his true perfect justice.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#974
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,485
113
62
#974
HeIsHere said:
Yes.
Click to expand...
We would disagree. It is an uncircumcised heart. It is not without reason that those who were saved the day of Pentecost and responded to Peter's message were first pricked in their hearts.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
#975
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
#975
Best verse describing human free will, 22 And Joshua said unto the people: 'Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye "have chosen" you the LORD, to serve Him.--And they said: 'We are witnesses.'--
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#976
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#976
Everlasting-Grace said:
Who said faith came after salvation?
you have not proved to me Saul ever had faith hence I fail to see your point?
Click to expand...
so hang on you don't know either way whether Saul had faith or not.

When Samuel clearly stated, that the spirit would come upon Saul and change him.

Why are you in such denial.

Can you not see what's going on here with so many people saying I can reject the lord if I want to.

Can you not see what is being encouraged here.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
#977
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
#977
FollowerofShiloh said:
Best verse describing human free will, 22 And Joshua said unto the people: 'Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye "have chosen" you the LORD, to serve Him.--And they said: 'We are witnesses.'--
Click to expand...
The reason verse 22 is the best "free will" verse is because these people Joshua is speaking to are descendants of those who SAW GOD deliver them from Egypt, witnessed the parting of the Sea, 40 years of no wearing out of clothing or shoes, saw manna and quail, saw God on the mountain, and they chose to "reject God." But these people, their descendants, "chose to Serve God."

So one group saw God and chose to reject Him and their descendants saw God and chose to serve Him. So "they both saw God" and had free will to reject or serve.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#978
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,485
113
62
#978
Thunderrr-mental said:
so hang on you don't know either way whether Saul had faith or not.

When Samuel clearly stated, that the spirit would come upon Saul and change him.

Why are you in such denial.

Can you not see what's going on here with so many people saying I can reject the lord if I want to.

Can you not see what is being encouraged here.
Click to expand...
Can you give the scriptural reference?
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#979
Jun 30, 2015
25,366
13,728
113
#979
Thunderrr-mental said:
like I said you like to aggravate people further, so no I will not directly answer any more of your question,.

Like it or lump it.
Click to expand...
You're delusional. I am not seeking to aggravate you at all, though I also won't entertain your c**p. Grow a thicker skin.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#980
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,485
113
62
#980
FollowerofShiloh said:
The reason verse 22 is the best "free will" verse is because these people Joshua is speaking to are descendants of those who SAW GOD deliver them from Egypt, witnessed the parting of the Sea, 40 years of no wearing out of clothing or shoes, saw manna and quail, saw God on the mountain, and they chose to "reject God." But these people, their descendants, "chose to Serve God."

So one group saw God and chose to reject Him and their descendants saw God and chose to serve Him. So "they both saw God" and had free will to reject or serve.
Click to expand...
The fact that God made us in His image infers freewill.
Do you believe freewill was in any way hindered by sin?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.