Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
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I don’t think the verses your trying to use confirm anything your saying honestly
for instance lol your whiting a prophecy about John the Baptist who baptized for remission of sins and trying to make that support your argument about some sort of bizarre predestination / hypergrace idea
“And he asked for a writing table, and wrote, saying, His name is John. And they marvelled all. And all they that heard them laid them up in their hearts, saying, What manner of child shall this be! And the hand of the Lord was with him. And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: For thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; To give knowledge of salvation unto his people By the remission of their sins,”
Luke 1:63, 66-67, 76-77 KJV
it seems like your just quoting random verses d then explaining everything they don’t say or address
i still feel Like we’re wasting time going in a circle
for instance lol your whiting a prophecy about John the Baptist who baptized for remission of sins and trying to make that support your argument about some sort of bizarre predestination / hypergrace idea
“And he asked for a writing table, and wrote, saying, His name is John. And they marvelled all. And all they that heard them laid them up in their hearts, saying, What manner of child shall this be! And the hand of the Lord was with him. And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: For thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; To give knowledge of salvation unto his people By the remission of their sins,”
Luke 1:63, 66-67, 76-77 KJV
it seems like your just quoting random verses d then explaining everything they don’t say or address
i still feel Like we’re wasting time going in a circle
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No!
GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION
Salvation is not a product, but a daily relationship with God in Christ. It is not finished when one trusts Christ; it has only begun (a gate and then a road, cf. Matt. 7:13-14)! It is not a fire insurance policy, nor a ticket to heaven, but a life of growing Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23; 1 Pet. 1:15). We have a proverbial saying in America that says the longer a couple lives together, the more they begin to look alike. This is the goal of salvation!
SALVATION AS A COMPLETED ACTION (aorist)
• Acts 15:11
• Romans 8:24
• 2 Timothy 1:9
• Titus 3:5
• Romans 13:11 (combines the aorist with a future orientation)
SALVATION AS A STATE OF BEING (perfect)
• Ephesians 2:5,8
SALVATION AS A CONTINUING PROCESS (present)
• 1 Corinthians 1:18; 15:2
• 2 Corinthians 2:15
• 1 Peter 3:21
SALVATION AS A FUTURE CONSUMMATION (future in verb tense or context)
• Romans 5:9,10; 10:9,13
• 1 Corinthians 3:15; 5:5
• Philippians 1:28
• 1 Thessalonians 5:8-9
• Hebrews 1:14; 9:28
• 1 Peter 1:5
Therefore, salvation begins with an initial faith decision (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9-13), but this must issue in lifestyle faith (cf. Rom. 8:29; Gal. 2:19-20; Eph. 1:4; 2:10), which will one day be consummated in sight (cf. 1 John 3:2). This final state is called glorification (cf. Rom. 8:28-30). This can be illustrated as
1. initial salvation – justification (saved from the penalty of sin)
2. progressive salvation – sanctification (saved from the power of sin)
3. final salvation – glorification (saved from the presence of sin)
Something is wrong here-no offense brother.
J.
GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION
Salvation is not a product, but a daily relationship with God in Christ. It is not finished when one trusts Christ; it has only begun (a gate and then a road, cf. Matt. 7:13-14)! It is not a fire insurance policy, nor a ticket to heaven, but a life of growing Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23; 1 Pet. 1:15). We have a proverbial saying in America that says the longer a couple lives together, the more they begin to look alike. This is the goal of salvation!
SALVATION AS A COMPLETED ACTION (aorist)
• Acts 15:11
• Romans 8:24
• 2 Timothy 1:9
• Titus 3:5
• Romans 13:11 (combines the aorist with a future orientation)
SALVATION AS A STATE OF BEING (perfect)
• Ephesians 2:5,8
SALVATION AS A CONTINUING PROCESS (present)
• 1 Corinthians 1:18; 15:2
• 2 Corinthians 2:15
• 1 Peter 3:21
SALVATION AS A FUTURE CONSUMMATION (future in verb tense or context)
• Romans 5:9,10; 10:9,13
• 1 Corinthians 3:15; 5:5
• Philippians 1:28
• 1 Thessalonians 5:8-9
• Hebrews 1:14; 9:28
• 1 Peter 1:5
Therefore, salvation begins with an initial faith decision (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9-13), but this must issue in lifestyle faith (cf. Rom. 8:29; Gal. 2:19-20; Eph. 1:4; 2:10), which will one day be consummated in sight (cf. 1 John 3:2). This final state is called glorification (cf. Rom. 8:28-30). This can be illustrated as
1. initial salvation – justification (saved from the penalty of sin)
2. progressive salvation – sanctification (saved from the power of sin)
3. final salvation – glorification (saved from the presence of sin)
Something is wrong here-no offense brother.
J.
No, an unsaved person cannot hear spiritually. I think these verses might explain/confirm that, especially 1 Co 2:14.
Do you believe anyone needs to be saved to begin with ? If so is this going to save them or not ?
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. ( because they have to hear it )
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
will hearing and believing the gospel save anyone ? Or do they need to be saved at all since they are already saved before that why is Jesus offering salvstion to all people ? This is a bizarre circle brother
If we removed the things God said will save a soul there’s nothing left to believe and be saved without hearing it we can’t believe it seems basic and simple we either need as humans to be saved from death and the wrath of God or we don’t need to be saved at all
Everyone is doomed
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4 KJV
All have sinned God made atonement for all souls some will hear it and believe others will reject it because it calls to repentance
Do you believe anyone needs to be saved to begin with ? If so is this going to save them or not ?
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. ( because they have to hear it )
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
will hearing and believing the gospel save anyone ? Or do they need to be saved at all since they are already saved before that why is Jesus offering salvstion to all people ? This is a bizarre circle brother
If we removed the things God said will save a soul there’s nothing left to believe and be saved without hearing it we can’t believe it seems basic and simple we either need as humans to be saved from death and the wrath of God or we don’t need to be saved at all
Everyone is doomed
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4 KJV
All have sinned God made atonement for all souls some will hear it and believe others will reject it because it calls to repentance
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Don't understand your point.
It is God's requirement that those He saves spiritually hear the gospel and believe in Christ but their believing isn't what saves
it comes as a result of salvation. Being saved is first.
Look let's make this easy rather than having to respond to each of your points. I think what you are saying is that
to become saved someone has to first believe, and that it is up to the person to self-produce.
I, on the other hand, and given as we are saved by grace, believe there are no prerequisites to salvation
besides that God chose that person for it. All other attributes and characteristics accompanying salvation
flow from, and a byproduct of, salvation, and that they do not lead to salvation. Otherwise, it wouldn't be by grace.
It is God's requirement that those He saves spiritually hear the gospel and believe in Christ but their believing isn't what saves
it comes as a result of salvation. Being saved is first.
Look let's make this easy rather than having to respond to each of your points. I think what you are saying is that
to become saved someone has to first believe, and that it is up to the person to self-produce.
I, on the other hand, and given as we are saved by grace, believe there are no prerequisites to salvation
besides that God chose that person for it. All other attributes and characteristics accompanying salvation
flow from, and a byproduct of, salvation, and that they do not lead to salvation. Otherwise, it wouldn't be by grace.
Simple-
The belief that regeneration precedes faith is a topic of theological debate within Christianity, particularly between Calvinists and Arminians.
Calvinists argue that regeneration, or the new birth, is the sovereign work of God that precedes and enables faith.
They emphasize that spiritually dead individuals cannot believe unless they are first made alive by God. This view is based on passages such as John 3:3, Ephesians 2:1, and 1 John 5:1, which speak of the necessity of being born again before believing.
Arminians, on the other hand, maintain that faith is a necessary condition for regeneration. They argue that God enables people to believe through prevenient grace, and upon exercising faith, individuals are then regenerated. They point to verses such as John 1:12-13 and Acts 16:14, which suggest that believing precedes being born of God.
The debate revolves around the nature of human depravity, the order of God's work in salvation, and the relationship between faith and regeneration. Both sides support their positions with various biblical passages and theological reasoning. The issue remains a point of tension and disagreement within the broader Christian community.
Which one do you hold to?
The belief that regeneration precedes faith is a topic of theological debate within Christianity, particularly between Calvinists and Arminians.
Calvinists argue that regeneration, or the new birth, is the sovereign work of God that precedes and enables faith.
They emphasize that spiritually dead individuals cannot believe unless they are first made alive by God. This view is based on passages such as John 3:3, Ephesians 2:1, and 1 John 5:1, which speak of the necessity of being born again before believing.
Arminians, on the other hand, maintain that faith is a necessary condition for regeneration. They argue that God enables people to believe through prevenient grace, and upon exercising faith, individuals are then regenerated. They point to verses such as John 1:12-13 and Acts 16:14, which suggest that believing precedes being born of God.
The debate revolves around the nature of human depravity, the order of God's work in salvation, and the relationship between faith and regeneration. Both sides support their positions with various biblical passages and theological reasoning. The issue remains a point of tension and disagreement within the broader Christian community.
Which one do you hold to?
The first, although I wouldn't label myself a Calvinist. I just think that I might see some of the same doctrine that he
saw and that should come as no surprise given there is only one salvation. Not to bad-mouth Calvin, but besides
casually hearing some of his beliefs, I've never studied nor read any of his literature. To the degree I've heard it though,
it seems to make sense to me, but I'm not expert on it.
saw and that should come as no surprise given there is only one salvation. Not to bad-mouth Calvin, but besides
casually hearing some of his beliefs, I've never studied nor read any of his literature. To the degree I've heard it though,
it seems to make sense to me, but I'm not expert on it.
The sealing of the Spirit in Ephesians 1 is not the same as the spiritual baptism that places us in Christ spoken of in 1 Corinthians 12.
Notice the former is associated with the Holy Spirit of promise which relates it to Pentecost when Peter quoting Joel and received the promise of the Father that Jesus told the disciples to wait for in Jerusalem. It is an experiential event and easily noticeable to all in attendance. This makes sense because a seal is put on the outside of a letter to seal it.
The work of the Spirit placing the believer into Christ in 1 Corinthians 12 is nonexperiential and is a positional change that is represented in Romans 6 in our immersion into jesus' death, burial, and resurrection.
Notice the former is associated with the Holy Spirit of promise which relates it to Pentecost when Peter quoting Joel and received the promise of the Father that Jesus told the disciples to wait for in Jerusalem. It is an experiential event and easily noticeable to all in attendance. This makes sense because a seal is put on the outside of a letter to seal it.
The work of the Spirit placing the believer into Christ in 1 Corinthians 12 is nonexperiential and is a positional change that is represented in Romans 6 in our immersion into jesus' death, burial, and resurrection.
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