"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth." - God does not love all sinners?

[Nehemiah6]

This verse seems to indicate that God does not love all sinners...

Please read it again. The verse is talking about chastening. The ones who are chastened are actually being chastened because God loves them. As far as loving all sinners, read John chapter 3.

 

[LeeLoving]

Please read it again. The verse is talking about chastening. The ones who are chastened are actually being chastened because God loves them. As far as loving all sinners, read John chapter 3.

Hey, Nehemiah. I was actually sort of expressing the dichotomy shown by these two verses. John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world", so it would seem God loves the whole world. Hebrews 12:6 says he chastens those he loves though, perhaps he chastens everyone? I was maybe reading it like he only chastens his sons and daughters.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Well, God is love... perhaps love is the correct word (I don't know what it originally said) and it just makes sense in the nuance of the language.

God is love- specifically 'agape'. The modern English 'love' is pitifully ambiguous. Nevertheless- included in this 'agape' is a benevolence of God toward his creation; and humanity in particular. It is because of this he calls for us all to come to him and be saved.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I was maybe reading it like he only chastens his sons and daughters.

That is correct. God compares human chastening by fathers to His own chastening. Children are chastened becuase their parents love them and want them to do right,

 

[notmyown]

Hebrews 12:6
King James Version
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

This verse seems to indicate that God does not love all sinners, the idea of which seemingly contradicts John 3:16. What I can deduce is that God does not love all sinners the same way, but has a different love for those who are his sons and daughters. He loves the world, but he loves his sons and daughters. I don't know if I can put it into words. I might not be right of course, but it's seemingly what these two verses when taken together indicate.

hello, Lee

keep asking the Lord for the truth.

i just want to point out Jn 3:16 is a simple statement of fact, in which the words "whosoever will" do not appear.
the word "so" there is not an adverb of degree, saying God loved the world SOOOOO much. it is rather an adverb of manner, telling us in what way God loved the world. He did it by giving His one and only Son.

what people like to think of as "whosoever will", in Greek, is pas ho pisteuón. it means all (pas) the (ho) ones believing (pisteuón). to my surprise, the NLT comes closest to getting the translation right, in my opinion:

For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

it's a declarative sentence expressing a truth, nothing more, and nothing less.

God bless you, brother.

 

[Adstar]

Hebrews 12:6
King James Version
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

This verse seems to indicate that God does not love all sinners, the idea of which seemingly contradicts John 3:16. What I can deduce is that God does not love all sinners the same way, but has a different love for those who are his sons and daughters. He loves the world, but he loves his sons and daughters. I don't know if I can put it into words. I might not be right of course, but it's seemingly what these two verses when taken together indicate.

You have misread this verse.. It says nothing about Gods love either way for sinners.. It simply states that God disciplines His followers..

Other verses clearly reveal Gods love for sinners..

(Romans 5:8) "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

 

[ForestGreenCook]

What is actually being said, is that God does not force you to believe or to be saved.

That, would be a false interpretation of Scripture.

The whosoever will of John 3:16, means anyone and not except for......

Jesus died for the whole world...that IS in scripture and not just those who interpret the word predestination in a way that suggests we have no choice should we become a Christian. The Bible says FOR GOD SO LOVE THE WORLD...does not say only the 'regeneerate'

If you want to know about the world that hates Jesus, read John, starting with chapter 16 thru 18

 

[ForestGreenCook]

hello, Lee

keep asking the Lord for the truth.

i just want to point out Jn 3:16 is a simple statement of fact, in which the words "whosoever will" do not appear.
the word "so" there is not an adverb of degree, saying God loved the world SOOOOO much. it is rather an adverb of manner, telling us in what way God loved the world. He did it by giving His one and only Son.

what people like to think of as "whosoever will", in Greek, is pas ho pisteuón. it means all (pas) the (ho) ones believing (pisteuón). to my surprise, the NLT comes closest to getting the translation right, in my opinion:

For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

it's a declarative sentence expressing a truth, nothing more, and nothing less.

God bless you, brother.

God's born again sheep are the only ones that can hear and believe (John 10:26-29).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hey, Nehemiah. I was actually sort of expressing the dichotomy shown by these two verses. John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world", so it would seem God loves the whole world. Hebrews 12:6 says he chastens those he loves though, perhaps he chastens everyone? I was maybe reading it like he only chastens his sons and daughters.

You are right. Do not let anyone sidetrack you. Psalms 73 will verify that the wicked are not chastened by God, especially in verse 5.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You have misread this verse.. It says nothing about Gods love either way for sinners.. It simply states that God disciplines His followers..

Other verses clearly reveal Gods love for sinners..

(Romans 5:8) "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Rom 5:8, the word "US" has reference to the sanctified in verse 1. Us is not the whole world of mankind.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Well the language in Hebrews 12:6 is exclusionary about who God loves, but John 3:16 says "for God so loved the world", so I guess it makes sense to me that God loves his sons and daughters in an exclusive way, but also loves the world. Also I think you're adopted (if I put that right) as a son or daughter of God when you believe in Jesus, not when you accept Him. I don't get the whole "accept Jesus" language that is prevalent and it is troubling to me as it seems to sideline believing in the Lord.

aid a father has ten children lives then all but then five of them choose to leave his home even when he’s telling them it’s really dangerous out there don’t go just stay home son ….and they go out into the world then they are killed by bandits

Was the problem that the father never loved them ? Or was the issue he let then choose freely and was telling then the truth all along because he dearly loved them but they wouldn’t listen

is it a lack of the fathers love that led then to death ?

God showed his love this way

“Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He did that for everyone so anyone who believes the gospel can be saved some will accept him others will reject him but he didn’t force anyone either way he made a way to be saved because he loves creation they don’t always love him however

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what jesus did can re it anyones sin some will believe it others will reject it like those children some will stay home others will leave and then return home in repentance but some will not want to stay home with father in his love it is t that God lacks love for even the worst person it’s that they lack love for him

 

[Niki7]

If you want to know about the world that hates Jesus, read John, starting with chapter 16 thru 18

how long did you ponder on that response

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Please read it again. The verse is talking about chastening. The ones who are chastened are actually being chastened because God loves them. As far as loving all sinners, read John chapter 3.

Amen imagine raising a child and just letting them do whatever they want to do without consequence and correction no good father would do that but absentee and neglectful fathers would never teach thier children right from wrong and about consequences of choice it would be a dereliction of a fathers duty to withhold correction and tantamount to leading the child astray

 

[ForestGreenCook]

…..can you not respond seven times to one response ? I can’t keep up with that I don’t have that much energy

That is a cop out because you cannot refute the scriptures to fit your theology.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

What is actually being said, is that God does not force you to believe or to be saved.

That, would be a false interpretation of Scripture.

The whosoever will of John 3:16, means anyone and not except for......

Jesus died for the whole world...that IS in scripture and not just those who interpret the word predestination in a way that suggests we have no choice should we become a Christian. The Bible says FOR GOD SO LOVE THE WORLD...does not say only the 'regeneerate'

You are not even quoting John 3:16 right. It does not say "whosoever WILL" That is what you wish it said.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

how long did you ponder on that response

How long are you going to refuse what the scriptures say?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Please read it again. The verse is talking about chastening. The ones who are chastened are actually being chastened because God loves them. As far as loving all sinners, read John chapter 3.

You are right that he chastens those that he loves, He does not chasten those that he does not love. Read Psalms 73, especially verse 5.

 

[Niki7]

How long are you going to refuse what the scriptures say?

EVERY TRANSLATION DISAGREES WITH YOU AND AGREES WITH WHAT I POSTED.

New International Version
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

New Living Translation
“For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

English Standard Version
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Berean Standard Bible
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Berean Literal Bible
For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life.

King James Bible
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

New King James Version
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

New American Standard Bible
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

NASB 1995
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

NASB 1977
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Legacy Standard Bible
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Amplified Bible
“For God so [greatly] loved and dearly prized the world, that He [even] gave His [One and] only begotten Son, so that whoever believes and trusts in Him [as Savior] shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Christian Standard Bible
For God loved the world in this way: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
“For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

American Standard Version
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For God loved the world in this way: so much that he would give up his Son, The Only One, so that everyone who trusts in him shall not be lost, but he shall have eternal life.

Contemporary English Version
God loved the people of this world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who has faith in him will have eternal life and never really die.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

English Revised Version
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
God loved the world this way: He gave his only Son so that everyone who believes in him will not die but will have eternal life.

Good News Translation
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life.

International Standard Version
"For this is how God loved the world: He gave his unique Son so that everyone who believes in him might not be lost but have eternal life.

Literal Standard Version
for God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him may not perish, but may have continuous life.

Majority Standard Bible
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

New American Bible
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.

NET Bible
For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

New Revised Standard Version
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.

New Heart English Bible
For God loved the world in this way: He gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.

Webster's Bible Translation
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Weymouth New Testament
For so greatly did God love the world that He gave His only Son, that every one who trusts in Him may not perish but may have the Life of Ages.

World English Bible
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Young's Literal Translation
for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

 

[Niki7]

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Jphn 3:16

That's the Bible. We receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Christ. No one receives the Holy Spirit before they receive Christ. That, is also in the Bible. You can find it in your Bible or be persuaded by people who do not acknowledge what is actually written.

See, you even have a choice in what you are going to believe/accept right there.

 

[Anton]

Hebrews 12:6
King James Version
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

This verse seems to indicate that God does not love all sinners, the idea of which seemingly contradicts John 3:16. What I can deduce is that God does not love all sinners the same way, but has a different love for those who are his sons and daughters. He loves the world, but he loves his sons and daughters. I don't know if I can put it into words. I might not be right of course, but it's seemingly what these two verses when taken together indicate.

Hello,
In Greek there are 5 kinds of love, God has agape love for the the world, this is a love based on principles, for his sons and daughter God has phileo love which represents a love associated with feelings of tender affection.
Shalom