the Sabbath
- Thread starter dlj57
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
Hello, sorry to lead the topic off the rails a bit here but I cannot PM people here so I would like to just ask one quick question from you, as this has potentially opened my eyes to an idea.
1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
I always thought about this verse "WHAT, circumcision IS a commandment of God" but after reading your post I was wondering if perhaps Paul is talking about the 10 commandments as a separate entity from the rest of the law?
Is there any Bible backing up this idea? Do you believe this is the case? thanks God bless you
The flaw in your post, is that the law only grants the knowledge of sin. The letter of the law, the written law, is designed to be beyond our ability to obey it.
The law prepares you for the messiah, that was it's purpose. To make you aware of your need for divine reconciliation. The law
was never intended to make you a good person, a righteous person. That was never the law's purpose.
You cannot gain anything from the law except the knowledge of sin.
Romans 2
17 But if you call yourself a Jew and rely upon the Law and boast in God, 18 and know His will and distinguish the things that matter, being instructed from the Law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to people who are blind, a light to those in darkness, 20 a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, possessing in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth— 21 you, therefore, who teach someone else, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one is not to steal, do you steal? 22 You who say that one is not to commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who loathe idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.
Who is the target audience of chapter two of the letter to the Romans, Jews or Gentiles?
I will print the line again.
the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you
Who did God tell to REMEMBER? Exodus 20:2 - I am the Lord your God, who brought YOU out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage -- The Israelites.
Moses gives the reason the sabbath was given to the nation of Israel: “REMEMBER that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought YOU out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore, the Lord your God has commanded YOU to observe the Sabbath day.” (Deuteronomy 5:15)
Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: “The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.” (Exodus 31:16-17)
You need to stop conflating the old and new covenants and learn how to rightly divide the word of truth.
Straw man argument. Gentiles and believers alike do not profane the sabbath because we are not under the Law of Moses. Nehemiah 9:14 - So, You made known to them Your holy sabbath, and laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses.
Old Testament, old covenant of LAW. Also notice Sabbaths (plural) and this is addressed to the people of ISRAEL. (Ezekiel 22:18)
The words of Paul cannot be made any clearer in Colossians 2:16 - Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
This simply teaches that from month to month and from week to week, God’s people will worship Him. In the new heaven and the new earth, we read there will have no need of the sun or moon, there will be no night there, but one perpetual day and the glory of God will illuminate it. (Revelation 21:23-25).
How then could there be a cycle of seven days that would allow for literally keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law? The Isaiah passage simply means that God’s people will perpetually worship Him in contrast to keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.
Furthermore, if one insists on weekly sabbath observances based on Isaiah 66:23, then one also needs to observe new moons as well. Yet from what I hear, Sabbatarians don’t observe new moons, which is inconsistent. New moons require night, hence Sabbatarians have night in heaven, yet there is no day and night cycles in heaven. You cannot have "new moon to new moon" or "sabbath days" without day and night, so your argument is moot.
Will there be Levitical priests in the new heaven? If Isaiah 66:23 teaches that we will keep the weekly sabbath day under the law in the new heaven, then it also teaches in Isaiah 66:21 that the Levitical priests will be in the new heaven, because it's also mentioned. What happened to the Levitical priesthood under the new covenant terms? Priesthood changed so did the law. Hebrews 7:12 - For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. The old and new covenants do not mix.
Foreigners were to "join themselves to the Lord;" and "love the name of the Lord;" and "be his servants;" and "take hold of God's covenant." The OLD COVENANT. But to do this they had to be circumcised, for God said: “No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary." (Ezekiel 44:9) When Gentiles thus "joined themselves to the Lord" they ceased being Gentiles and became proselytes to the Jewish religion. They kept the Sabbath AS JEWISH PROSELYTES, NOT as Gentiles.
But where are Gentiles as Gentiles ever commanded to keep the Sabbath? Furthermore, if the Sabbath was of universal application, why were the Gentiles called "strangers?" The apostle Paul, speaking of the Gentiles during the Jewish age, says they were "strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world?" (Ephesians 2:12)
And when God gave the Sabbath commandment at Sinai, why did he make it binding ONLY on "the stranger that is within your gates?" (Exodus 20:10) Where is the passage that proves the Sabbath was binding on the Gentile OUTSIDE the gates? All this shows the Sabbath was NOT universally applied. If it had been, there would have been no "strangers from the covenants of promise."
Who was Jesus addressing here? The scribes and the Pharisees. (vs. 1) Was the new covenant in place yet? No. You desperately need to learn how to rightly divide the word of truth.
It's not about God transferring the sabbath to any other day and its also not about turning the sabbath day into an idol or turning keeping the sabbath day into a legalistic prescription for salvation.
You still don't seem to understand the true purpose of the sabbath and who it was for or that its a shadow of what is to come but the substance belongs to Christ.
Do you disregard Sunday? The day that Jesus Christ rose from the dead. (Matthew 28:1)
In Leviticus 23:5-11, Look at verse 11: "'And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.'" The day after the Sabbath is Sunday. Read on specifically looking at Leviticus 23:15 - "'You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete sabbaths. You shall count fifty days to the DAY AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH; then you shall present a new grain offering to the Lord.'" This is the Feast of Pentecost. It was one of the compulsory feasts of Israel.
Note on the day of Pentecost, a Sunday God's people were commanded to worship. God says, "On this same day you shall make a proclamation as well; you are to have a holy convocation. You shall do no laborious work. It is to be perpetual statute in all your dwelling places throughout your generations." (Leviticus 23:21).
No distinction is made by God between these holy days and the weekly Sabbath. He also includes them as holy. This would mean that under the old covenant the First Fruits Sunday and the Pentecost Sunday were also holy.
It really helps to understand Paul's writting if you realize the differences in the laws. There are times when all laws and principles are referred to as "the law" but many times it helps to understand which law is being referred to.
There are 4 main laws in the bible and they all come from one foundermental law..
The character of God which is LOVE.
God is merciful and Just and righteous.
You can't remove these character traits..
The laws are ....His moral laws
...the civil laws
...the cerimonial laws
...and the laws of nature.
Time is a law of nature and does not change,
The civil laws were the way the government dealt with people.
The moral laws define sin.
And the cerimonial laws were given to show and direct people to Christ and the way He would save us.
God does not change. His character has not changed.
The civil laws are lacking God's guidance.
The cerimonial laws were nailed to the cross because Jesus has taken there place.
The moral laws are the same today. Defining sin and transgression.
The laws of nature are still in effect.
Gal 3:18-26
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Knowing that the moral law defines sin and si was before Abraham then this added law must be the cerimonial laws that are a schoolmaster pointing to Jesus.
For those who thinks this verse is "Old Covenant" I would consider studying it further in prayer. So many have a preconceived notion of old/new covenant that they miss so many of the plain teachings of Christ.
This is Christ speaking
Isaiah 56:1
56 Thus says the Lord:
“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
Has His salvation come and has He revealed Himself. No. Does God's righteousness change from old to new covenant? No Psa 119:172 Romans 7:12 God does not change. He tells us that-Malachi 3:6 why don't we believe Him.
Christ goes on to say...
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
Christ says we are blessed when we keep the Sabbath. Can man reverse His blessing? NO!
Numbers 23:20 Behold, I have received a command to bless;
He has blessed, and I cannot reverse it.
Only Christ can reverse His blessing. God blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Exo 20:11
It's is arrogant to think we can reverse something God blessed, made holy and told us to Remember. Christ told us this would happen Dan 7:25
Did Paul reverse God's blessing? Paul does not have the authority to countermand God, nor did he. He kept the Sabbath decades after the Cross and no record of him profaning it. People take one or two out of context verses from Paul that has him countermanding Christ which is why we have this warning 2 Peter 3:16
Lets continue. . .
Isaiah 56:6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant
Christ makes it clear the Sabbath is for everyone- Jesus said so as well Mark 2:27. Will there ever be a time OC/NC that we shouldn't join ourselves to Christ and be His servant. Christ ties this with Sabbath-keeping
The next verse makes it clear this is not OC unless one thinks heaven and being united with Christ is "Old Covenant"
Isaiah 56:7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
Where is His holy mountain? Lets let scripture define it for us.
Joel 2:1 Blow the trumpet in Zion, And sound an alarm in My holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble; For the day of the Lord is coming, For it is at hand:
Joel 3:17 “So you shall know that I am the Lord your God, Dwelling in Zion My holy mountain.
So before Jesus reveals Himself He blesses Sabbath-keepers and brings them to His holy mountain where His house is a house of prayer for ALL nations- not just Jews.
We can either follow the popular teachings of man leading people away from breaking one of God's commandments of we can serve Christ and not break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:18-30 and obey God's commandments over the commandments of man. Mark 7:7-8 Mat 15:3-14. Jesus tells us what to keep, we are blessed when we do so Isa 58:13-14 Rev 22:14 God wants to bless us and so many say no thanks.
This is Christ speaking
Isaiah 56:1
56 Thus says the Lord:
“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
Has His salvation come and has He revealed Himself. No. Does God's righteousness change from old to new covenant? No Psa 119:172 Romans 7:12 God does not change. He tells us that-Malachi 3:6 why don't we believe Him.
Christ goes on to say...
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
Christ says we are blessed when we keep the Sabbath. Can man reverse His blessing? NO!
Numbers 23:20 Behold, I have received a command to bless;
He has blessed, and I cannot reverse it.
Only Christ can reverse His blessing. God blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Exo 20:11
It's is arrogant to think we can reverse something God blessed, made holy and told us to Remember. Christ told us this would happen Dan 7:25
Did Paul reverse God's blessing? Paul does not have the authority to countermand God, nor did he. He kept the Sabbath decades after the Cross and no record of him profaning it. People take one or two out of context verses from Paul that has him countermanding Christ which is why we have this warning 2 Peter 3:16
Lets continue. . .
Isaiah 56:6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant
Christ makes it clear the Sabbath is for everyone- Jesus said so as well Mark 2:27. Will there ever be a time OC/NC that we shouldn't join ourselves to Christ and be His servant. Christ ties this with Sabbath-keeping
The next verse makes it clear this is not OC unless one thinks heaven and being united with Christ is "Old Covenant"
Isaiah 56:7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
Where is His holy mountain? Lets let scripture define it for us.
Joel 2:1 Blow the trumpet in Zion, And sound an alarm in My holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble; For the day of the Lord is coming, For it is at hand:
Joel 3:17 “So you shall know that I am the Lord your God, Dwelling in Zion My holy mountain.
So before Jesus reveals Himself He blesses Sabbath-keepers and brings them to His holy mountain where His house is a house of prayer for ALL nations- not just Jews.
We can either follow the popular teachings of man leading people away from breaking one of God's commandments of we can serve Christ and not break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:18-30 and obey God's commandments over the commandments of man. Mark 7:7-8 Mat 15:3-14. Jesus tells us what to keep, we are blessed when we do so Isa 58:13-14 Rev 22:14 God wants to bless us and so many say no thanks.
The annual sabbath(s) feast days were yearly, not weekly. There is no weekly Pentecost. They were Jewish feast days and were added after the fall of man and were handwritten by Moses.
The seventh day Sabbath started at Creation Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11 and was part of God's perfect plan before the fall of man.
The weekly Sabbath is also a commandment of God that was finger written by God. No one has the authority to countermand Him.
The Ten Commandments that God wrote and spoke alone Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16 Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 that was placed under His mercy seat and what all man will be judged by- breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 Ecc 12:13-15 Mat 5:19-30 I would not want to tinker with something God personally wrote that is under His mercy seat- removing it means we are not covered.
There is no commandment to keep the first day holy- God said it was for works and labors Exo 20:9
You know how them who handle the law judged Jesus for breaking the law of the Sabbath.
Working on the sabbath and all.
The Pharisees were not keeping God's law, they were keeping their own traditions, which is why Jesus called them out on it Mark 7 Matthew 15. They accused Jesus of breaking their sabbath, which is not the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments meant to bless. Isa 58:13-14
Don't get me wrong .I remember the Sabbath.I think about it quite often.I calculate the Sabbath is about 5 years from now.As it gets closer I will have a more accurate calculation.
Luke 13:32
He said to them, “Go tell that fox, ‘Look, I’m driving out demons and performing healings today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will complete my work.’
Still about 5 years to go.
Luke 13:32
He said to them, “Go tell that fox, ‘Look, I’m driving out demons and performing healings today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will complete my work.’
Still about 5 years to go.
They accused Jesus of working on the seventh day of the week.What they called the Sabbath.
Yes, the "working" part was their definition, not what is in the Ten Commandments. Jesus never broke the Sabbath or sinned. Heb 4:15 1 Petter 2:21-22 He kept all of the commandments John 15:10 and is our example to follow 1 John 2:6
Well,like I said.I calculate there are still 5 more years before the Sabbath day when Jesus work is finished.
Luke 13:32
He said to them, “Go tell that fox, ‘Look, I’m driving out demons and performing healings today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will complete my work.’
Sorry, not sure what you're referring to. This is when God says is His Sabbath day.
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.
You missed my point about the day after the sabbath and you also continue to conflate the old and new covenants. All this talk from you about the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) yet no mention of the gospel.
I would like to know what YOU believe the gospel IS and also what YOU believe it means to believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16)
Now although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt.
Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.
The word "Sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.
Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3,32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians in the New Testament. (Colossians 2:16-17)
The Pharisees were keeping keeping traditions and disregarding the law. You may see churches throughout Christian history, that follow tradition, more so, than following what Jesus said.
The Lord of the Sabbath will decide if the hunger of the disciples, is more important than the law.
Jesus overlooks so much in His unconditional love for us.
The eternal law has always been God's love for us and our love of God.
It was never really about the letter of the law, Israel failed before, during, and after the law was given.
Love for others always towers above everything else.
The Sabbath goes back to Creation- God said so.
This is God personally writing:
Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
And continues on for all the saints for eternity Isa 66:22-23
God's people keep God's commandments Rev 14:12 and so did Abraham Gen 26:5 as he is one of God's people
God kept the Sabbath, Jesus kept the Sabbath, His faithful followers kept the Sabbath and the apostles kept the Sabbath- seems like the group to be in.
You can believe what you want- all gets sorted out soon enough
- Status