Why free will?

Gideon300 · Jan 29, 2024

What do you give the person who has everything? It's not easy. You can give maybe a better version of something they have already. It's not so easy. What do you give God, who could create anything He wanted any time, with just a word? There is nothing. So God created a being that was neutral, made in His image, but neither for God nor against Him.

God gave man a choice. God knew what would happen. He knew that Adam and Eve would commit high treason and ally themselves to God's prime enemy. God already had the plan of redemption in place. That plan was carried out by His Son, the Lord Jesus.

God did not compel Adam to rebel. That was Adam's choice. The Bible says that Adam knew what he was doing. He chose Satan's way rather than God's. If I were God (be glad that I'm not) I would have scratched Adam and Eve and started again. No way would I give over my son to death for the likes of rebellious Adam. But God is nothing like me. I was born like Adam, rebellious and living according to my own ideas and my own power. But my ideas were utterly selfish and I was powerless to overcome evil.

In His mercy, God once more showed me the consequences of my sinful nature. Then He offered me new life in Christ. I gladly accepted. I was saved because I was terrified of hell. But now I've come to know this gracious and merciful God that loves me in spite of all that I am and am not. Adam made a choice that affected the whole of humanity. Jesus made a choice that can save all humanity. But God will not force anyone to receive. What can you give God that He does not have? You. All of you.

Adam could have eaten from the tree of life and lived forever. God kind of puts us back in the garden where Jesus is the "tree of Life". Choose Him and live.

Pilgrimshope · Jan 29, 2024

I found this to be a really interesting read thanks for taking big he time to share it . I think rewlly as your conclusion there he’s sort of always been saying that to choose life rather than death he sort of tells mankind the truth and this gives them a choice because Satan then tries to deceive them after they hear the truth like he did eve and her husband pertaining to the fruit

When we hear what god said will give us life and blessing Satan tries to stop us from believing it but offering alternative words

“if you eat the fruit you’ll surely die “ truth

“ you will not surely die , God knows it will make you wise like gods knowing both good and evil “ lie and distraction

this creates a choice for the person hey know both good and evil we can be tempted that becomes a choice do I stands on faith or do I follow the temptation ?

Even in Paul’s writing me when you really begin to read what he’s actually teaching the readers

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s always the truth and the deceptions if we choose the truth we’re going to be fine

Nehemiah6 · Jan 29, 2024

Gideon300 said:

Most of us would probably agree. Adam had every privilege but he chose to disobey God. And thereby brought a curse upon humanity.

However, God knew that human beings could never have eternal fellowship with Him unless He sent Christ to shed His blood for mankind, and thereby make a way for God to offer the gift of eternal life freely. Therefore we read that the Lamb of God was slain from BEFORE foundation of the world (1 Pet 1:18-21).

But He would go beyond that and perfect the children of God at the Resurrection/Rapture, so that they all would resemble Christ in eternity, and become His Body and His Bride. But then He would go beyond that, and make His children kings and priests -- a Royal Priesthood. Therefore God has revealed to us His purpose in all of this in the epistle to the Ephesians.

That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him... That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus....To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the Church the manifold wisdom of God... To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. ( Eph 1: 10; 2:7; 3:10; 1:6)

So God's eternal purpose in all of this is that the principalities and powers in heavenly places will praise the glory of God's grace and wisdom when they see what God is doing through the Church.

p_rehbein · Jan 30, 2024

Was expecting to read your answer to the question you posed in the Title of the OP. Must have missed it. Anyway, why free will? God gave each person the great gift of free will because He wanted them to choose to love and serve Him, and not be compelled to by Divine Power He could use to make them serve Him.

God did not want a people of slaves or robots (which He could have created), He wanted people to have the power to choose! He wanted their love and service to be based on the feelings in their heart, and not based on forced servitude.

That is "why free will."

ForestGreenCook · Jan 30, 2024

Gideon300 said:

Yes, God gave mankind the freedom to choose how mankind wanted to live their lives as they sojourn here on earth, and as you have stated, God knows the end from the beginning. God saw that, because they had the freedom to choose how they wanted to live their lives here on earth, all of mankind choose not to seek God, no, not one (Psalms 53:2-3).

Because of God's foreknowledge, and in order that he would have a people who would honor and praise him, he choose a set amount of people before he ever formed the world, and called them his elect, that they should be holy, and without blame. (Eph 1:4).

God further predestinated them unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will, and made them accepted in his beloved (Eph 1:5-6). determining them to have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of their sins, according to the riches of his grace (Eph 1:7).

In whom (God) they also have obtained an inheritance (everlasting life in heaven) being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the (counsel) of his own will.

You can plainly see, in these verses, that God did not "offer" his elect (those that he gave to Jesus-John 6:39) a choice in the matter of their eternal deliverance (salvation), as God's choice was made before he formed the world. Christ's offering was offered to God, for God's acceptance, and not to mankind, for their acceptance,) however, he did still let them choose how they wanted to live their lives, as they sojourned here on earth, which necessitated God having to chasten them when they commit a sin (Heb 12:6).

Kroogz · Jan 30, 2024

Gideon300 said:

What do you give the person who has everything? It's not easy. You can give maybe a better version of something they have already. It's not so easy. What do you give God, who could create anything He wanted any time, with just a word? There is nothing. So God created a being that was neutral, made in His image, but neither for God nor against Him.

God gave man a choice. God knew what would happen. He knew that Adam and Eve would commit high treason and ally themselves to God's prime enemy. God already had the plan of redemption in place. That plan was carried out by His Son, the Lord Jesus.

God did not compel Adam to rebel. That was Adam's choice. The Bible says that Adam knew what he was doing. He chose Satan's way rather than God's. If I were God (be glad that I'm not) I would have scratched Adam and Eve and started again. No way would I give over my son to death for the likes of rebellious Adam. But God is nothing like me. I was born like Adam, rebellious and living according to my own ideas and my own power. But my ideas were utterly selfish and I was powerless to overcome evil.

In His mercy, God once more showed me the consequences of my sinful nature. Then He offered me new life in Christ. I gladly accepted. I was saved because I was terrified of hell. But now I've come to know this gracious and merciful God that loves me in spite of all that I am and am not. Adam made a choice that affected the whole of humanity. Jesus made a choice that can save all humanity. But God will not force anyone to receive. What can you give God that He does not have? You. All of you.

Adam could have eaten from the tree of life and lived forever. God kind of puts us back in the garden where Jesus is the "tree of Life". Choose Him and live.

Why freewill? So we could know God. Our freewill allows us to see divine attributes that we otherwise would not see.......Grace and Mercy. His perfect righteousness and justice. His unconditional love.

ForestGreenCook · Jan 30, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

I found this to be a really interesting read thanks for taking big he time to share it . I think rewlly as your conclusion there he’s sort of always been saying that to choose life rather than death he sort of tells mankind the truth and this gives them a choice because Satan then tries to deceive them after they hear the truth like he did eve and her husband pertaining to the fruit

When we hear what god said will give us life and blessing Satan tries to stop us from believing it but offering alternative words

“if you eat the fruit you’ll surely die “ truth

“ you will not surely die , God knows it will make you wise like gods knowing both good and evil “ lie and distraction

this creates a choice for the person hey know both good and evil we can be tempted that becomes a choice do I stands on faith or do I follow the temptation ?

Even in Paul’s writing me when you really begin to read what he’s actually teaching the readers

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s always the truth and the deceptions if we choose the truth we’re going to be fine

Just because we are born again does not mean that we get rid of the baggage of our sinful nature.(Rom 7)

Death is "a separation". When a born again person commits a sin, they separate themselves from God's fellowship until they repent. They do not separate themselves from their eternal inheritance. Paul explains his battle with the flesh against the Spirit in Rom 7.

studentoftheword · Jan 30, 2024

ForestGreenCook said:

I think you need to do a little more research on your statement here ------as I think you will find out your not quite right in what you say here -----

Our sins are forgiven ----so we cannot be separated from God's fellowship for committing the sin -----I think you will find out also that we are to confess our sin for our own benefit to say out loud that we sinned is admitting it and saying we don't like what we just did and we can call on God's Grace to help us do better and stay out of sin -----

In 2 Corinthians 12, Paul quotes Jesus who said, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”

God is perfect in every way, giving Him the power to make up for any weaknesses we have.

Our Flesh is weak but we have Grace to call on -------Grace is a person in the New Testament ----Jesus is full of Grace and truth

John 1:17 NIV

17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/do-i-need-to-repent-if-christ-died-for-all-my-sins

Do I Need to Repent If Christ Died for All My Sins?

Interview with
John Piper

Founder & Teacher, desiringGod.org

I say -----Scroll down to this heading and read what it says ----the whole article is worth the read

Confess Your Sins

Gideon300 · Jan 30, 2024

studentoftheword said:

I think you need to do a little more research on your statement here ------as I think you will find out your not quite right in what you say here -----

Our sins are forgiven ----so we cannot be separated from God's fellowship for committing the sin -----I think you will find out also that we are to confess our sin for our own benefit to say out loud that we sinned is admitting it and saying we don't like what we just did and we can call on God's Grace to help us do better and stay out of sin -----

In 2 Corinthians 12, Paul quotes Jesus who said, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”

God is perfect in every way, giving Him the power to make up for any weaknesses we have.

Our Flesh is weak but we have Grace to call on -------Grace is a person in the New Testament ----Jesus is full of Grace and truth

John 1:17 NIV

17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/do-i-need-to-repent-if-christ-died-for-all-my-sins

Do I Need to Repent If Christ Died for All My Sins?

Interview with
John Piper

Founder & Teacher, desiringGod.org

I say -----Scroll down to this heading and read what it says ----the whole article is worth the read

Confess Your Sins

I differ slightly from you. Sin impedes fellowship. Isaiah 59:2. We cannot lose relationship. And yes, confessing sin is vital. 1 John 1:9

Gideon300 · Jan 30, 2024

p_rehbein said:

Was expecting to read your answer to the question you posed in the Title of the OP. Must have missed it. Anyway, why free will? God gave each person the great gift of free will because He wanted them to choose to love and serve Him, and not be compelled to by Divine Power He could use to make them serve Him.

God did not want a people of slaves or robots (which He could have created), He wanted people to have the power to choose! He wanted their love and service to be based on the feelings in their heart, and not based on forced servitude.

That is "why free will."

I rather thought that what I wrote included what you've said.

Thunderrr-mental · Jan 30, 2024

Why free will from God,

Now theres a question.

he knew that one day everyone would have there own opinion no matter what he said

It could be he let people have free will because he knew one day extremists.would emerge or people would do what anyone would tell them to or to believe.

I would even say he knew people would put there hands in the fire if asked to.

I guess he knew the best way to learn was the hard way 😂

studentoftheword · Jan 31, 2024

Gideon300 said:

My view on your statement here

Your in the Old Testament here---Jesus hadn't come yet ---so Sin did affect your fellowship with God -----in the Old Testament ------Sin now has been dealt with ------so now rejecting Jesus affects your fellowship with God not the sin you commit ------Jesus took all sin upon himself for all people --sin now is not the Issue -----you don't go to hell for the sins you commit ----you go to hell for rejecting Jesus who paid your sin debt ----

Born Again people have a resource to fall back on to help them stay free from falling into sin ---Grace who is Jesus -----

Cameron143 · Jan 31, 2024

studentoftheword said:

He's making a distinction between temporal effects of sin and eternal effects.
Eternally, the believer cannot lose their relationship with God. Temporally, if we do not walk in the light, we cannot fellowship with God who remains in the light.

studentoftheword · Jan 31, 2024

Cameron143 said:

So what your saying is that God's Grace is insuffence to give you the strength to stay out of sin ---and your saying that God still imputes sin on a believer and punishes them for that ----by cutting off the fellowship ----

I strongly disagree with your way of thinking -----

Pilgrimshope · Jan 31, 2024

Gideon300 said:

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-7, 11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It seems as if Godnisnt the one behind the corruption of his creation it went from this

“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To this

GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth;…earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”

It simply doesn’t make sense if Gods Will is creating a good world , forcing man to ruin it and cause his own self to repent that he even created man on earth and decide to now destroy his work ordained very good by him just ten generetions earlier and corrupting and then destroying his own creation that he claims to love but all the while blaming mankind who had no role or choice in the matter

God knows the outcome of every choice we’re going to make that’s true he knows the end before the beginning , he only knows what we’ll do he doesn’t make us do it he’s actually calling us to repent and do what he’s saying will give life

If satan can convince us we don’t have a choice he’s already won

PaulThomson · Jan 31, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

It doesn't make sense that God would repent of making man, if before He made them He knew the outcome of every choice of the men He would make. I don't think it is necessary to assume that God exhaustively knows the future, in order to also believe the Bible and the Gospel.

Mem · Jan 31, 2024

Certainly, God had a contingency plan that would mitigate failure of His vision before going forward with His vision.

PaulThomson · Jan 31, 2024

Mem said:

Or perhaps He was simply confident enough in His intellect and ability to engineer strategies in real time to mitigate any threats from His creatures to derail His overall plan.

PennEd · Jan 31, 2024

studentoftheword said:

There are consequences to the believer that sins. That is different than God imputing that sin to them.

Pilgrimshope · Jan 31, 2024

PaulThomson said:

Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:”

He’s the creator my friend he made us he knows what we’re going to choose this doesn’t remove our choices he sees the inside and knows our fabric like this

he makes the covenant and gives them the choice telling them how to live

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then he tells Moses what they are going to do later before they do it

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he didn’t cause this he knew thier hearts like Jesus kept doing looking into them , he knew what they were made of what was in them

God foreknows all things he just knows what we’re going to do beforehand so he o owe who’s going to be saved that’s why it says this

“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:29-

The nature of Gods word brother is coming directly from his foreknowledge

“Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God knowing the outcome is true , it’s also true that this doesn’t change our part our role our perspective of a choice made freely he knows who’s going to believe the gospel already this doesn’t affect us when we hear it we’re working the timeline he’s outside knowing the end before the beginning

Why free will?

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