God, math and science
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is anyone surprised it took post 3 pages to show up to this thread?
i answer thee, "fashionably late"
i answer thee, "fashionably late"
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only because the same Creator created all things - if there is no Creator, and all that is, arises from randomness, i have no reason to believe 1 + 1 = 2 in the next minute, or a mile from here.
homogeity - that 'things are the same all over' - is a fundamental assumption of all physical science, and that assumption was originally made because we understood all things to have a common source, God, Who does not change, and is a God of order.
it is a powerful argument that undermines everyone who thinks "science" is essentially atheistic: not so. it has been taken over by loud athletes ist voices, but they stand on a foundation built of Theism; their atheism takes the ground out from under their own feet.
homogeity - that 'things are the same all over' - is a fundamental assumption of all physical science, and that assumption was originally made because we understood all things to have a common source, God, Who does not change, and is a God of order.
it is a powerful argument that undermines everyone who thinks "science" is essentially atheistic: not so. it has been taken over by loud athletes ist voices, but they stand on a foundation built of Theism; their atheism takes the ground out from under their own feet.
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Einstein -- a genius -- did not see how illogical was his idea about God (as expressed above). All he had to do (as a Jew) was open the Torah and discover that God is not only a God of orderly and mathematical harmony, but He was involved with mankind from day one. Those who refuse to believe in the God of the Bible and the Lord Jesus Christ actually set themselves up to become fools. It was the pre-incarnate Christ who walked with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (since no man has seen God the Father at any time).
God dismissed the creation of all the stars in just three words in Hebrew -- "he made the stars also" (Gen 1:16). That is וְאֵ֖ת (wə-’êṯ) = and + כּוֹכָבִֽים (hak-kō-w-ḵā-ḇîm) = the stars.
As you can see "he made" is in italics (meaning that it was added by the translators). Now human beings have written probably thousands of books on the stars, the galaxies, etc. But for God, He simply spoke the stars into existence (as though it was nothing) and there is mathematical precision throughout the Milky Way. Indeed throughout creation.
Although we are not told this specifically, it is entirely possible that the angels (also called "stars" in other contexts ) were created on the same day (the fourth day of creation). And the holy angels cannot be counted ( thus "an innumerable company of angels" -- in Heb 12:22).
Baruch Spinoza was a Jewish philosopher who had some philosophical ideas about God, but rejected the Bible.
God dismissed the creation of all the stars in just three words in Hebrew -- "he made the stars also" (Gen 1:16). That is וְאֵ֖ת (wə-’êṯ) = and + כּוֹכָבִֽים (hak-kō-w-ḵā-ḇîm) = the stars.
As you can see "he made" is in italics (meaning that it was added by the translators). Now human beings have written probably thousands of books on the stars, the galaxies, etc. But for God, He simply spoke the stars into existence (as though it was nothing) and there is mathematical precision throughout the Milky Way. Indeed throughout creation.
Although we are not told this specifically, it is entirely possible that the angels (also called "stars" in other contexts ) were created on the same day (the fourth day of creation). And the holy angels cannot be counted ( thus "an innumerable company of angels" -- in Heb 12:22).
Baruch Spinoza was a Jewish philosopher who had some philosophical ideas about God, but rejected the Bible.
When God was speaking to Job He asked Job who stretched a line to measure the Universe, Earth, etc. We see other references in Isaiah, Ezekiel, even to the Apostle John in Revelation about measuring the Temple, distance of stars, formation of stars and such. I personally understood when God mentioned these things it was a common practice for humanity to also be using math, to use tools to measure. Even in Genesis 6/7 God tells Noah the dimensions of the Ark. Noah would have to be aware of this common knowledge or he could not understand what God was commanding.
Clearly, God created math, how to measure, engineering, for us to use in our own lives as created beings.
Clearly, God created math, how to measure, engineering, for us to use in our own lives as created beings.
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The reasons so many scientists both in the historical past and today were/are Christians is that they believed in an organized and ultimately knowable universe, because they know from the Bible that God created an ordered word, and answers were ultimately discoverable within that order. They weren't looking for for chaos. They were looking for the structure God laid down in the Bible as reflected in the physical universe around them.
God made the stars, the planets& sun & galaxies. It took logical rules for the matter he created to work. Scientists were interested in discovering and solving the mysteries of God's creation. St. Augustine said, "Nature is God's second book!" And it is. That is why many scientists were also theologians. I found it interesting in seminary how many of the men were engineers or scientists, and had thriving careers before God called them to seminary. I would have thought it was more the arts, history & English majors, who liked to talk & write.
With a logical and consistent universal, the scientist can totally rely thst God will not suddenly change the rules of the universe. There are laws and principles to be applied and used. And they can be trusted.
Even when you look at chaos theory, it becomes an exception that proves the rules.
God made the stars, the planets& sun & galaxies. It took logical rules for the matter he created to work. Scientists were interested in discovering and solving the mysteries of God's creation. St. Augustine said, "Nature is God's second book!" And it is. That is why many scientists were also theologians. I found it interesting in seminary how many of the men were engineers or scientists, and had thriving careers before God called them to seminary. I would have thought it was more the arts, history & English majors, who liked to talk & write.
With a logical and consistent universal, the scientist can totally rely thst God will not suddenly change the rules of the universe. There are laws and principles to be applied and used. And they can be trusted.
Even when you look at chaos theory, it becomes an exception that proves the rules.
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I believe the earth is 6000 years old, and Science is purposely deceiving mankind by making things look like they are older, and things are farther then they actually are for the purpose of going against the Bible in creation favoring evolution.
Which many in Science say humans are not from the earth, and the world needs to prepare for an alien encounter, which they believe aliens are going to help mankind to have peace, advance, and evolve, which they talk about the return of the gods.
Which they are favoring the new age movement that interprets the Bible according to the occult and evolution, and people are evolving to be spiritual, and there is no personal God.
So they will lie, and be deceitful in going about trying to convince the world that the Bible account is not true, but creation happened by evolution, or say the Bible is speaking of evolution.
The United Nations supports new age organizations because that is the plan to establish it in the world to prepare the world to evolve to the 5th root race, 6th sub-race, of the evolutionary process of humans by the power of nature the God of forces.
When evolution came out it slowly changed the way they look at religion, and reality, and now the new age movement is their religion, and reality.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
All 6 days were 6 literal days.
People may say how can God create so fast to create all this in 6 days.
It is because God is an omnipresent Spirit so He does not have to move to create, and the time it takes Him to make one creature He made them all, and can create things simultaneously.
I believe God could of created everything faster than that but He wanted 6 days, and one day of rest to go along with the 7 days week.
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Everything was made after their kind which means they reproduced to have the same species, and did not evolve from a lower species which they were created in their mature form, and then reproduced from there.
Which is why Adam and Eve were made as a man and a woman.
The animals, and Adam and Eve were made from the dust of the earth, and not from a lower species.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
The Bible says some shall depart from the faith and follow the new age movement interpretation of the Bible, and the time will come people will not want to hear the truth of the Bible, but hear it according to their own lusts the new age movement(1 Timothy 4:1-5; 2 Timothy 4:2-4).
Which it can only be the new age movement it is speaking about which they will come out at the latter times, and their beliefs are of seducing spirits and doctrines of devils for they follow Lucifer believing he is a god, and an alien, that gave mankind intelligence, and will help them to evolve.
They do not believe Lucifer is a fallen angel because they do not believe in a God.
The Pope and the Vatican will follow the New Age Christ and it is already planned out.
It is obvious that when the Roman Empire embraced Christianity they did not get rid of their occult, and pagan ways, and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.
So they can sway in their beliefs, and sway to go along with the world as it changes so they will go along with the world and its change to the new age movement.
That is why Pope Francis elected 72 percent of the Cardinals so they would be in the majority position to elect the new Pope who will side with the New Age Christ, and the interpretation of the Bible of the new age movement which interprets all religions according to the occult, and evolution.
The Pope will be the head of a unified religious system with all religions interpreted by the new age movement, and he will be the false prophet.
By spreading evolution it is causing people to dismiss the Bible, or interpret it wrongly which they could be persuaded by the new age movement.
Which many in Science say humans are not from the earth, and the world needs to prepare for an alien encounter, which they believe aliens are going to help mankind to have peace, advance, and evolve, which they talk about the return of the gods.
Which they are favoring the new age movement that interprets the Bible according to the occult and evolution, and people are evolving to be spiritual, and there is no personal God.
So they will lie, and be deceitful in going about trying to convince the world that the Bible account is not true, but creation happened by evolution, or say the Bible is speaking of evolution.
The United Nations supports new age organizations because that is the plan to establish it in the world to prepare the world to evolve to the 5th root race, 6th sub-race, of the evolutionary process of humans by the power of nature the God of forces.
When evolution came out it slowly changed the way they look at religion, and reality, and now the new age movement is their religion, and reality.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
All 6 days were 6 literal days.
People may say how can God create so fast to create all this in 6 days.
It is because God is an omnipresent Spirit so He does not have to move to create, and the time it takes Him to make one creature He made them all, and can create things simultaneously.
I believe God could of created everything faster than that but He wanted 6 days, and one day of rest to go along with the 7 days week.
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Everything was made after their kind which means they reproduced to have the same species, and did not evolve from a lower species which they were created in their mature form, and then reproduced from there.
Which is why Adam and Eve were made as a man and a woman.
The animals, and Adam and Eve were made from the dust of the earth, and not from a lower species.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
The Bible says some shall depart from the faith and follow the new age movement interpretation of the Bible, and the time will come people will not want to hear the truth of the Bible, but hear it according to their own lusts the new age movement(1 Timothy 4:1-5; 2 Timothy 4:2-4).
Which it can only be the new age movement it is speaking about which they will come out at the latter times, and their beliefs are of seducing spirits and doctrines of devils for they follow Lucifer believing he is a god, and an alien, that gave mankind intelligence, and will help them to evolve.
They do not believe Lucifer is a fallen angel because they do not believe in a God.
The Pope and the Vatican will follow the New Age Christ and it is already planned out.
It is obvious that when the Roman Empire embraced Christianity they did not get rid of their occult, and pagan ways, and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.
So they can sway in their beliefs, and sway to go along with the world as it changes so they will go along with the world and its change to the new age movement.
That is why Pope Francis elected 72 percent of the Cardinals so they would be in the majority position to elect the new Pope who will side with the New Age Christ, and the interpretation of the Bible of the new age movement which interprets all religions according to the occult, and evolution.
The Pope will be the head of a unified religious system with all religions interpreted by the new age movement, and he will be the false prophet.
By spreading evolution it is causing people to dismiss the Bible, or interpret it wrongly which they could be persuaded by the new age movement.
I was thinking whether I should reply to this because I sense that you’re a bit all over the place with many topics in there, but here it goes.
- Science is not this “thing” that sits out there, alone. It’s us, people like you and me who have picked up a career in discovering how stuff works in our planet and our existence.
So, this comes down to what one can see and measure which means that anyone including you and I can do this. - Evolution is theory, not a fact. Evolution from the perspective of a believer can be seen as one way which God has created us based on what we see, but ultimately we don’t know. What we do know and believe is that God has created us and the evidence is undeniable in nature and existence and our internal reasoning.
- The Holy Bible is not an engineering book, but a relationship book to our Creator and a spiritual guide in this fallen world.
- I don’t enjoy conspiracy theories. I participate sometimes in one or two if they’re funny enough, but most of the time I avoid them because I don’t enjoy them.
- False prophets with false prophecies will always remain false prophets … unless you can perform a miracle so the world will take you more seriously.
- The interpretations of Bible can take many colorful forms from all parties involved.
- I know Catholics are a fun topic to beat on, but just because the Pope is a politician doesn’t mean that all Catholics are politicians.
- All over your post you say the word “I believe” which is great to hear because I Believe too. It is such a blessing for us to be believers because it gives us strength and joy we have in-Christ to navigate this fallen world.
With this being said, I don’t believe the Earth is 6000 years old because I would have to become blind in order to ignore what I see and measure.
Eli, what is it we see as contrasting to what you're being told?
Example, whenever a new dinosaur is discovered, the first thing you read is, "A new dino has been discovered and believed to be 65 million years old." Then some poor dumb-down bottle-head picks up the article and said, "Ah, see God didn't mean 6 days."
Now compare that to this headline. "Some 5000 years ago there was a great world-wide flood accompanied with a tremendous upheaval of the earth, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, landslides etc. burying millions upon millions of animals, birds, fish and humans in mud 100 feet deep, and water as high as the highest mountains, the water pressure crushing everything below its surface.
Last week, scientists have uncovered the remains of a dino that is presumed to be about 5000 years old.
Now I ask you Eli, doesn't that sound more reasonable if you're a man of faith and believe what has been written in 'This book of life" we call the Bible?
Example, whenever a new dinosaur is discovered, the first thing you read is, "A new dino has been discovered and believed to be 65 million years old." Then some poor dumb-down bottle-head picks up the article and said, "Ah, see God didn't mean 6 days."
Now compare that to this headline. "Some 5000 years ago there was a great world-wide flood accompanied with a tremendous upheaval of the earth, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, landslides etc. burying millions upon millions of animals, birds, fish and humans in mud 100 feet deep, and water as high as the highest mountains, the water pressure crushing everything below its surface.
Last week, scientists have uncovered the remains of a dino that is presumed to be about 5000 years old.
Now I ask you Eli, doesn't that sound more reasonable if you're a man of faith and believe what has been written in 'This book of life" we call the Bible?
I don't know. When you try to analyze things they become very confusing beyond what we comprehend to we just have to trust at that point.
What we see now is that things have been around for a very long time and to say that the age of the universe is 6000 years old because you count people's generations in the Bible is a bit absurd to me because again, what we see, seems to be very very old.
As far as the details of how Adam was created, all i know and believe about that, is that God has created us from dust which implies that we are part of this Creation and He put us in charge of this Creation.
Was he created and sculpted from clay/mud? Maybe. Was he created via a long process? Maybe. I don't know.
All i know in my heart is that God created us.
What we see now is that things have been around for a very long time and to say that the age of the universe is 6000 years old because you count people's generations in the Bible is a bit absurd to me because again, what we see, seems to be very very old.
As far as the details of how Adam was created, all i know and believe about that, is that God has created us from dust which implies that we are part of this Creation and He put us in charge of this Creation.
Was he created and sculpted from clay/mud? Maybe. Was he created via a long process? Maybe. I don't know.
All i know in my heart is that God created us.
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