What if you die before water baptism?

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Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

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Dec 18, 2023
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turbosixx said:
I suggest Paul is making a larger point here and this can't be applied to baptism. Jew's were circumcised at 8 days old. Their heart was not in it. The bible tells us circumcision is a sign. If baptism is a sign, then the bible would surely would tell us but I've never read that. To take a verse about circumcision and apply it to baptism is reaching. The bible tells us a lot about baptism.




There is no such thing as spiritual baptism. The bible doesn't tell us about a spiritual baptism.
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I disagree sorry
 
T

turbosixx

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#262
Sep 16, 2023
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#262
Moses_Young said:
The word baptised means immersed. "As many of you were immersed into Christ have put on Christ", not "as many of you were immersed into water have put on Christ".
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So the Ephesians were baptized in water when they believed. Those in Acts 19 twice. So, when Paul later writes to them and says they were baptized into Christ, why would they think it's not their water baptism?
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

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#268
turbosixx said:
100% serious.
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  • Matthew 3:11: "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit"[63]
  • Mark 1:8: "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit"[64]
  • Luke 3:16: "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit"[65]
  • Luke 3:22: "and the Holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form like a dove."[66]
  • Luke 11:13: "how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"[67]
  • Luke 24:49: "stay here in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."[68] (see fulfillment in Acts 2)[69]
  • John 1:33: "the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit."[70]
  • Acts 1:4–5: "the Promise of the Father"; "you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit"[71]
  • Acts 2:1–4: "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages"[72]
  • Acts 2:14–18: "I will pour out my Spirit"[73] (quoting Joel 2:28–29).[74]
  • Acts 4:31: "they were all filled with the Holy Spirit"[75]
  • Acts 8:14–17: "prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit"; "as yet the Spirit had not yet come upon any of them"; "they received the Holy Spirit"; "the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands"[76]
  • Acts 9:17: "Jesus [...] has sent me [...] that you may [...] be filled with the Holy Spirit."[77]
  • Acts 10:44–48: "The Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word"; "the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out"; "people who have received the Holy Spirit"[78]
  • Acts 11:15–16: "the Spirit fell upon them"; "you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit"[79]
  • Acts 15:8: "God [...] testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us"[80]
  • Acts 19:1–6: "Did you receive the Holy Spirit [...]?"; "the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied"[81]
  • 1 Corinthians 12:13: "For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free"[82]
  • Galatians 3:2: "Did you receive the Spirit [...] by believing what you heard?"[83]
  • Ephesians 1:13: "marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit"[84]
 
Moses_Young

Moses_Young

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#269
Sep 15, 2019
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#269
Thunderrr-mental said:
would he become a Hebrew after circumcision of the heart is.my first question 🤔
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Yes. All Christians - those whose hearts have been circumcised - are true Jews. Many of those claiming to be Jews are in fact, uncircumcised in heart.

turbosixx said:
I suggest Paul is making a larger point here and this can't be applied to baptism. Jew's were circumcised at 8 days old. Their heart was not in it. The bible tells us circumcision is a sign. If baptism is a sign, then the bible would surely would tell us but I've never read that. To take a verse about circumcision and apply it to baptism is reaching. The bible tells us a lot about baptism.
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All Jews had to be physically circumcised. All Christians are to be physically baptised (in water). You don't think that's similar? The bible would differ, as it often talks about circumcision and baptism together, as they are the same thing or at least, part of the same salvation process. Also being born again.

Thunderrr-mental said:
There is no such thing as spiritual baptism. The bible doesn't tell us about a spiritual baptism.
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Baptism simply means immersion. There are all kinds of immersion. Immersion in water, immersion in other substances. Immersion in Christ is obviously spiritual immersion (baptism), as we are not physically immersed into Him.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#270
Dec 18, 2023
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406
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#270
Moses_Young said:
Yes. All Christians - those whose hearts have been circumcised - are true Jews. Many of those claiming to be Jews are in fact, uncircumcised in heart.

All Jews had to be physically circumcised. All Christians are to be physically baptised (in water). You don't think that's similar? The bible would differ, as it often talks about circumcision and baptism together, as they are the same thing or at least, part of the same salvation process. Also being born again.

Baptism simply means immersion. There are all kinds of immersion. Immersion in water, immersion in other substances. Immersion in Christ is obviously spiritual immersion (baptism), as we are not physically immersed into Him.
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he stated there is so such thing as spiritual baptism

Is he saying water baptism is not spiritual 🤔

I'm confused now
 
T

turbosixx

Active member
#271
Sep 16, 2023
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#271
Thunderrr-mental said:
  • Matthew 3:11: "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit"[63]
  • Mark 1:8: "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit"[64]
  • Luke 3:16: "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit"[65]
  • Luke 3:22: "and the Holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form like a dove."[66]
  • Luke 11:13: "how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"[67]
  • Luke 24:49: "stay here in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."[68] (see fulfillment in Acts 2)[69]
  • John 1:33: "the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit."[70]
  • Acts 1:4–5: "the Promise of the Father"; "you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit"[71]
  • Acts 2:1–4: "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages"[72]
  • Acts 2:14–18: "I will pour out my Spirit"[73] (quoting Joel 2:28–29).[74]
  • Acts 4:31: "they were all filled with the Holy Spirit"[75]
  • Acts 8:14–17: "prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit"; "as yet the Spirit had not yet come upon any of them"; "they received the Holy Spirit"; "the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands"[76]
  • Acts 9:17: "Jesus [...] has sent me [...] that you may [...] be filled with the Holy Spirit."[77]
  • Acts 10:44–48: "The Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word"; "the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out"; "people who have received the Holy Spirit"[78]
  • Acts 11:15–16: "the Spirit fell upon them"; "you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit"[79]
  • Acts 15:8: "God [...] testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us"[80]
  • Acts 19:1–6: "Did you receive the Holy Spirit [...]?"; "the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied"[81]
  • 1 Corinthians 12:13: "For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free"[82]
  • Galatians 3:2: "Did you receive the Spirit [...] by believing what you heard?"[83]
  • Ephesians 1:13: "marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit"[84]
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Thanks for the list. Maybe I should start a different thread for this. I'm about out of time but for now I will suggest this. Baptism WITH the HS is a real thing but only happened 2 times. Each time was a special situation. If you do a word search for baptized WITH the HS, and read those verses you will get a picture of what it means and see it only actually happened twice.

As for baptism/ized by or of the HS, I'm not aware of the bible ever telling us baptism of/by the HS.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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#272
Magenta said:
I was thinking in terms of Jesus being baptized, i.e., the change in priesthood from Levitical to Jesus (our high priest).

Which also necessitated a change in the law, as per Scripture .:)
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Yes John was the last leviticle priest and Jesus is of melchezideks order
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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#273
Sep 2, 2020
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#273
Thunderrr-mental said:
The sins of the world are very much like a lamb in different ways,

For instance you can be inflicted by sin.

And sin first entered Adam.

And sin stayed in blood, and the sons of Adam where born into sin who inherited sin like a lamb.

In thees cases a type of lamb already exists in all of us because we are carrying the sin of our ancestors.

But then came a special lamb who took away the sin's of Adam.

And the when this lamb became a part of man, and for those who received the spirit of the lamb, they too became special lamb, and also took away the sin's of the world.

The idea is here that you also have it within you to be a lamb for sinners, and ye could be a lamb that has the authority to forgive.


For Jesus said I tell you that the son of man can forgive sin.

And now the son of man has special lambs.

So now ye can forgive sin.
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i don’t understand the whole idea here and it doesn’t sound familiar from the Bible so I really can’t say too much about this one lol
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Mem said:
John said in John 1:31, "...but the reason I came baptizing with water was that He might be revealed to Israel," and the One who sent him to baptize with water had told him, 'The man whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit (John1:33)." And this John testifies of seeing (John1:32).
And when Jesus came out of the water, ...the heavens were opened, and He saw the heavens open, and the Spirit of God descending like a dove and rested on Him, and a voice from heave said, 'This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.'

Jesus is our high priest, who (now) baptizes (the baptism that now saves us).
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Moses_Young said:
We're not saved by our works - solely through Christ Jesus. Anyone claiming we have to do any work for our salvation - including baptism - is preaching a different gospel. Works are evidence of our saving faith - yes. If we have saving faith, we will get baptised. But works are not required for salvation - salvation is purely through Christ's work on our behalf.
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Anyone claiming we have to do any work for our salvation - including baptism - is preaching a different gospel.

Yeah because Jesus came to teach everyone faith means never having to hear or obey God lol that will save us and show our faith
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#278
Sep 23, 2014
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#278
Pilgrimshope said:
Anyone claiming we have to do any work for our salvation - including baptism - is preaching a different gospel.

Yeah because Jesus came to teach everyone faith means never having to hear or obey God lol that will save us and show our faith
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They'll be all kinds of people 'showing' their faith that Jesus will say, "I never knew you."
 
Mem

Mem

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#279
Sep 23, 2014
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#279
Mem said:
They'll be all kinds of people 'showing' their faith that Jesus will say, "I never knew you."
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Lol, I totally sounded that sentence out when I started writing it... They'll be?... :LOL: Lol, I guess it works just as well in this case.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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#280
Mem said:
They'll be all kinds of people 'showing' their faith that Jesus will say, "I never knew you."
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yeah this day you mean ?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your right not everyone’s going to receive the same thing someday we should actually hear him now so when this day comes we aren’t telling him our works don’t apply

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not too sure the mindset “ refuse to hear or do anything God taught us to do just say you’re already saved “ is actually the way to be saved but i suooose everyone needs to decide who to believe

Jesus ? His apostles ? Someone else ? We’re all free to choose that’s the idea of sending this to all creation

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He gave everyone the same choice
 
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