TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!
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I believe everything that is eternal is forever. I don't believe something that is destroyed is eternal.
I also don't believe the new heavens and new earth are literal however. You find it difficult to believe I can believe in eternal life, but how does someone become unborn again? What is that process? Where is it described in the Bible? How can someone know and be known of God and Christ and then not know them? This you can't understand. But you don't flinch at all when you consider something you say will be destroyed is eternal. That I don't understand.
Wrath is simply the anger of God. It always results in judgment. Judgment is the outpouring of wrath to satisfy God's anger. Either Jesus is the One who assuages God's anger on one's behalf, or the individual will know the righteous anger for themselves. This is the second death,which the redeemed of God will not taste.
Tribulation is hardship or difficulty, and manifests in many forms. The tribulation spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24 is directed towards Israel in the first century. The owner of the vineyard had seen all the servants He sent be beaten and killed. The incarnation was Him sending His Son, for surely He would be respected. But He was not. He, too, was beaten and killed. What happened in 70 AD was the answer to Jesus' question: what do you think the owner of the vineyard will do when He comes?
The reason I believe the content of prophecy and Revelation applies to 1st century Israel largely is because the new covenant has no such sanctions for failing to keep the covenant. There is only life to those who believe and death to those who don't. God destroyed Jerusalem because they had finally filled up the cup of wrath by killing His Son. There is no such sanction in the new covenant. Yet people have been taught something worse than what was experienced by Israel is coming their way. What is the basis for it? The new covenant is a one-sided covenant. It has 1 stipulation. The old covenant was two-sided and had many stipulations. So, under what provisions of the new covenant would God bring worldwide judgment?
The book of Revelation doesn't deal with the new covenant. It deals with the way God is sanctioning Israel for its failure to keep the old covenant. That is the major substance of the book. After an introduction, it lays our the stipulations, it tells of the coming sanctions, and, lastly, reveals God's plan of succession. I know this isn't what the church teaches any longer. I realize most will stay settled in their views. But it is the substance of the message and the reason the fulness of time for Jesus incarnation was then.
I also don't believe the new heavens and new earth are literal however. You find it difficult to believe I can believe in eternal life, but how does someone become unborn again? What is that process? Where is it described in the Bible? How can someone know and be known of God and Christ and then not know them? This you can't understand. But you don't flinch at all when you consider something you say will be destroyed is eternal. That I don't understand.
Wrath is simply the anger of God. It always results in judgment. Judgment is the outpouring of wrath to satisfy God's anger. Either Jesus is the One who assuages God's anger on one's behalf, or the individual will know the righteous anger for themselves. This is the second death,which the redeemed of God will not taste.
Tribulation is hardship or difficulty, and manifests in many forms. The tribulation spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24 is directed towards Israel in the first century. The owner of the vineyard had seen all the servants He sent be beaten and killed. The incarnation was Him sending His Son, for surely He would be respected. But He was not. He, too, was beaten and killed. What happened in 70 AD was the answer to Jesus' question: what do you think the owner of the vineyard will do when He comes?
The reason I believe the content of prophecy and Revelation applies to 1st century Israel largely is because the new covenant has no such sanctions for failing to keep the covenant. There is only life to those who believe and death to those who don't. God destroyed Jerusalem because they had finally filled up the cup of wrath by killing His Son. There is no such sanction in the new covenant. Yet people have been taught something worse than what was experienced by Israel is coming their way. What is the basis for it? The new covenant is a one-sided covenant. It has 1 stipulation. The old covenant was two-sided and had many stipulations. So, under what provisions of the new covenant would God bring worldwide judgment?
The book of Revelation doesn't deal with the new covenant. It deals with the way God is sanctioning Israel for its failure to keep the old covenant. That is the major substance of the book. After an introduction, it lays our the stipulations, it tells of the coming sanctions, and, lastly, reveals God's plan of succession. I know this isn't what the church teaches any longer. I realize most will stay settled in their views. But it is the substance of the message and the reason the fulness of time for Jesus incarnation was then.
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I agree to the extent that if the Temple they build is a re-creation of Solomon's temple (which is their plan) and not Ezekiel's (which nobody seems very interested in).
So, when you say "create a nation and call it after God's name" do you think there aren't any Israelis who aren't physical descendents
of Israelites- or just that the civil nation-state is an evil fabrication?
So, when you say "create a nation and call it after God's name" do you think there aren't any Israelis who aren't physical descendents
of Israelites- or just that the civil nation-state is an evil fabrication?
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the Old Testament prophesied until John when it began to be fulfilled it concerned israel and thier covenant regarding the first coming of the messiah
“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
Matthew 11:13
the New Testament has its own prophecies that are bieng fulfilled throughout the whole world regarding the second coming of the messiah which concludes things soon after
The ot prophets were foretelling that Jesus would come and die for sin be raised up and ascend to Gods right hand and the gentiles would be saved through him also
the new testement is fulfilling that and then foretelling Jesus will return from heaven a second time
“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace, but a sword.”
Matthew 10:34 KJV
“And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations:
and he shall rule them with a rod of iron:
and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.”
Revelation 19:15
“out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations:”
“Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth.
A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth. And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.”
Jeremiah 25:30-33 KJV
“And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.”
Revelation 6:3-4 KJV
“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
Matthew 11:13
the New Testament has its own prophecies that are bieng fulfilled throughout the whole world regarding the second coming of the messiah which concludes things soon after
The ot prophets were foretelling that Jesus would come and die for sin be raised up and ascend to Gods right hand and the gentiles would be saved through him also
the new testement is fulfilling that and then foretelling Jesus will return from heaven a second time
“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace, but a sword.”
Matthew 10:34 KJV
“And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations:
and he shall rule them with a rod of iron:
and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.”
Revelation 19:15
“out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations:”
“Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth.
A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth. And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.”
Jeremiah 25:30-33 KJV
“And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.”
Revelation 6:3-4 KJV
Thats great. But jesus called it an abomination of desolation in fact, both the destruction of the city and the temple, AND the abomination of desolation (2 different events) are both prophesied in Dan 9we know the one happened in AD 70. The other as of yet has not happened.
You can’t change the meaning of terms..
You can’t change the meaning of terms..
I believe everythign that is eternal is forever too. Which is why I believe eternal life means forever.
But in the same token, i believe when God gives something to someone and says that is forever. I believe that is forever also. if he is not going to keep his promise to Israel. What hope do I have that he will not turn on me and remove his gift from me also?
I have no hope.. Thats why this is so important. does God keep his promises
Again, where did all the things take place in matt 24 in the first century? You have yet to show me those things
as for Gods wrath. Scripture tells us god will pour his wrath out on the world. I gave you the verse in revelation where even the kings of the earth and the great men tru to hide, because they see the great day of Gods wrath is at hand, and who can withstand it
what happened in 70 Paled in comparison to both ww1 and ww2. Even the holocost and what Hitler did to the jews was far more severe..
so no. I can not see what you are saying to be true. Nothing fits..
But in the same token, i believe when God gives something to someone and says that is forever. I believe that is forever also. if he is not going to keep his promise to Israel. What hope do I have that he will not turn on me and remove his gift from me also?
I have no hope.. Thats why this is so important. does God keep his promises
Again, where did all the things take place in matt 24 in the first century? You have yet to show me those things
as for Gods wrath. Scripture tells us god will pour his wrath out on the world. I gave you the verse in revelation where even the kings of the earth and the great men tru to hide, because they see the great day of Gods wrath is at hand, and who can withstand it
what happened in 70 Paled in comparison to both ww1 and ww2. Even the holocost and what Hitler did to the jews was far more severe..
so no. I can not see what you are saying to be true. Nothing fits..