The Commandments of God (according to scripture)

[Soyeong]

If you earnestly believe you are to keep the Mosaic Law, why don't you stone sexual deviants?

The Mosaic Law requires the witnesses to throw the first stone and I have not personally witnesses anyone doing that.. The Mosaic Law requires the accused people to be brought before a judge to do a thorough investigate and that none is to be put to death without at least two or three witness. The Mosaic Law requires that if a witness turns out to be false, then what would happen to the person that they falsely witnesses against is done to them instead. Moreover, Jesus gave himself to pay the penalty for our sins, so it would be unjust to enforce a penalty that has already been paid.

Even if everything I said above were incorrect and even if I were a complete hypocrite and the greatest sinner in the world, then that would just mean that I would need to repent, not that I was wrong about the fact that followers of the God of Israel should follow what He has commanded in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow.

 

[Cameron143]

The Mosaic Law requires the witnesses to throw the first stone and I have not personally witnesses anyone doing that.. The Mosaic Law requires the accused people to be brought before a judge to do a thorough investigate and that none is to be put to death without at least two or three witness. The Mosaic Law requires that if a witness turns out to be false, then what would happen to the person that they falsely witnesses against is done to them instead. Moreover, Jesus gave himself to pay the penalty for our sins, so it would be unjust to enforce a penalty that has already been paid.

Even if everything I said above were incorrect and even if I were a complete hypocrite and the greatest sinner in the world, then that would just mean that I would need to repent, not that I was wrong about the fact that followers of the God of Israel should follow what He has commanded in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow.

If that is so, why wouldn't a group of God fearing Jews mention this in Acts 15 concerning what Gentiles were to be told?

 

[Soyeong]

wrong again sorry. they were speakings of the law of Moses. your comprehension of texts is flawed. you twist everything the wrong way.

Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

That is not a counterargument. You are the one who thinks that it makes perfect sense to interpret servants of God as speaking obeying what He has commanded, so I find it a bit silly that you think that I'm the one twisting everything the wrong way and that you would try to apply those verses to me, especially when the book of Isaiah is fully in favor of obeying the Mosaic Law. Have some self-awareness.

 

[Soyeong]

If that is so, why wouldn't a group of God fearing Jews mention this in Acts 15 concerning what Gentiles were to be told?

It is not clear to me why you think truth of what I said leads to the expectation that it is something that would be mentioned in Acts 15. In Acts 15:21, the expectation was that Gentiles would continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues.

 

[Soyeong]

Do you believe the blood offerings and temple services should be obed today.

Are the ordinances that Moses wrote down to help Israel deal with sin still to be practiced today.

Heb 10:1-11 KJV 1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

We have the real deal now so the laws of ordinance given to Israel are no longer needed.

In Acts 18:18, Paul took a vow involving shaving his head and the vow prescribed in the Bible that involves doing that is a Nazarite vow, which involves making animal offerings (Numbers 6). Furthermore, in Acts 21:20-24, Paul intended to pay for the offerings of others who had taken a vow. In Hebrews 8:4, it speaks about offerings that were still being made in accordance with the Mosaic Law. So offerings did not cease with the death or resurrection of Jesus, but only ceased because of the destruction of the temple. If all of Israel had accepted Jesus as the Messiah, then the 2nd temple would not have been destroyed and offerings would still be being made. In Ezekiel 40-46, it prophesies about a time when another temple will be built and when offerings will resume. The only way that we should no longer follow God's instructions for how to act in accordance with His holiness is if God become no longer eternally holy.

In Deuteronomy 13:1-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they speak against obeying the Mosaic Law, so if you think that any of the NT authors were doing that, then according to God, you should consider them to be false prophets, though the reality is that they were servants of God who did not speak against obeying what He has commanded. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything that any man has said than to disregard anything that God has commanded.

 

[Cameron143]

It is not clear to me why you think truth of what I said leads to the expectation that it is something that would be mentioned in Acts 15. In Acts 15:21, the expectation was that Gentiles would continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues.

Sure, because it was all that existed at the time. But because the church was transitioning into a new covenant, the epistles were necessary to teach how to live under the new covenant. If Moses was sufficient, no such letters would be necessary.

 

[Soyeong]

Sure, because it was all that existed at the time. But because the church was transitioning into a new covenant, the epistles were necessary to teach how to live under the new covenant. If Moses was sufficient, no such letters would be necessary.

In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so the New Covenant is not transitioning away from the Torah, but rather they expected Gentiles to continue to learn how to obey it in accordance with following what Christ taught.

 

[Cameron143]

In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so the New Covenant is not transitioning away from the Torah, but rather they expected Gentiles to continue to learn how to obey it in accordance with following what Christ taught.

Didn't Jesus teach everything contained in the epistles? Why were they written?

 

[Soyeong]

Didn't Jesus teach everything contained in the epistles? Why were they written?

Everything that Jesus taught was rooted in the OT and the same with what was taught ion the rest of the NT, so the NT is essentially commentary on the OT.

 

[Cameron143]

Everything that Jesus taught was rooted in the OT and the same with what was taught ion the rest of the NT, so the NT is essentially commentary on the OT.

It's much more than that. Far more has taken place at the cross and after than you imagine. He didn't simply place the law in our hearts. He poured out His Spirit upon all flesh and made us to be partakers of the divine nature. A whole new humanity was introduced. The power present in the resurrection is at work in the believer. We were given the mind of Christ. The life of Christ is in is. It's no longer what would Jesus do, but what is Jesus doing in us. If you truly experienced this, you would stop talking about the law, and you would talk about Jesus.

 

[Soyeong]

It's much more than that. Far more has taken place at the cross and after than you imagine. He didn't simply place the law in our hearts. He poured out His Spirit upon all flesh and made us to be partakers of the divine nature. A whole new humanity was introduced. The power present in the resurrection is at work in the believer. We were given the mind of Christ. The life of Christ is in is. It's no longer what would Jesus do, but what is Jesus doing in us. If you truly experienced this, you would stop talking about the law, and you would talk about Jesus.

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of God's nature as it does to destine aspects of the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23), which is because it is God's instructions for how to partake in those aspects of His divine nature. Likewise, God's way is the way in which He practices aspects of His nature, such as righteousness and justice (Genesis 19:18) and there are many verses that describes God's law as being God's way, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, 1 Kings 2:1-3, Psalms 103:7, Psalms 119:1-3, and many others. The Son is the exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through living in sinless obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we live the he is living in us. Aspects of God's nature are the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), so the Spirit does not lead us to do something other than obey it. God's law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so again he is the embodiment of God's word and speaking about God's law is speaking about Jesus.

 

[Cameron143]

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of God's nature as it does to destine aspects of the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23), which is because it is God's instructions for how to partake in those aspects of His divine nature. Likewise, God's way is the way in which He practices aspects of His nature, such as righteousness and justice (Genesis 19:18) and there are many verses that describes God's law as being God's way, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, 1 Kings 2:1-3, Psalms 103:7, Psalms 119:1-3, and many others. The Son is the exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through living in sinless obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we live the he is living in us. Aspects of God's nature are the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), so the Spirit does not lead us to do something other than obey it. God's law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so again he is the embodiment of God's word and speaking about God's law is speaking about Jesus.

I understand. I say Christ and all that life in Him brings. You respond with law. The law hasn't brought you to Christ.
Do you realize I've mentioned Christ continually and you have mentioned Jesus once in our discussion.

 

[Soyeong]

MOSES' LAW
Called "the law of Moses" (Luke 2:22).
Called "law ... contained in ordinances" (Ephesians 2:15).
Written by Moses in a book (2 Chronicles 35:12).
Placed in the side of the ark (Deuteronomy 31:26).
Ended at the cross (Ephesians 2:15).
Added because of sin (Galatians 3:19).
Contrary to us, against us (Colossians 2:14).
Judges no one (Colossians 2:14-16).
Fleshly (Hebrews 7:16).
Made nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:19).

GOD'S LAW
Called "the law of the Lord" (Isaiah 5:24).
Called "the royal law" (James 2:8).
Written by God on stone (Exodus 31:18 32:16).
Placed inside the ark (Exodus 40:20).
Will stand forever (Luke 16:17).
Points out sin (Romans 7:7 3:20).
Not burdensome (1 John 5:3).
Judges all people (James 2:10-12).
Spiritual (Romans 7:14).
Perfect (Psalms 19:7).

These laws are not the same... When you mix all these principles together you can become confussed about which laws we should keep. exactly what the devil wants.

In Luke 2:22-23, it refers to the Law of Moses as being the Law of God, so the very verse that you are citing to establish a distinction between the Law of Moses and the Law of God actually completely undermines that distinction. Likewise, the Law of Moses is referred to as the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8 and Ezra 7:6-12. In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded him without departing from it, so all of the Law of Moses was commanded by God and is thus the Law of God.

The Greek word "dogma" refers to something other than the Law of Moses in every other time that it is used by the Bible, so justification needs to be given for why Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14 should be interpreted as referring to the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it is of liberty (Psalms 119:45), and it blesses those who obey it (Psalms 119:1-3), so when James 1:25 refers to the perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it, he was not saying anything about the Law of Moses that wasn't already said in the Psalms. So you are creating false distinctions.

 

[posthuman]

You say the law is not of faith

The Spirit of God says the Law is not of faith.

Galatians 3:12​

And the law is not of faith: but, ​

'the man that doeth them shall live in them.'​

 

[posthuman]

the laws of Moses that Jesus nailed to the cross

guess where "love the Lord" and "love your neighbor" are written?

in here:

Keeping the laws of Moses that Jesus nailed to the cross is a lack of faith regardless of motive.

so your position is that to love one another is lack of faith, regardless of motive?
or is your argument flawed.


when you break the Law apart like that, the decalogue no longer has any basis, because the basis of all the commandments are in the jots and tittles you deleted.
God designed it this way, to expose human wisdom as foolishness.

 

[posthuman]

i don't get "love one another" from Moses.

i get it from my Husband

 

[Soyeong]

I understand. I say Christ and all that life in Him brings. You respond with law. The law hasn't brought you to Christ.
Do you realize I've mentioned Christ continually and you have mentioned Jesus once in our discussion.

I speak frequently speak about Christ. The Mosaic Law is God word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so he is the embodiment of the Mosaic Law expressed through walking in sinless obedience to it. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked so it is contradictory to want all that life in Christ brings while not wanting to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the Mosaic Law brings us to Christ because it is God's instructions for how to know him, or in other words, for how to have a relationship with him.

 

[Soyeong]

I agree and what I wrote about the law was of course about the law of Moses, @Soyeong insisted we have to follow the law of Moses which is impossible. There is a clear distinction between the law of Moses and the 10 Commandments, that is why the 10 commandments were put inside the ark of the covenant and the temporary law of Moses was put on it's side, bur not inside with the commandments.

The fact that Jesus was teaching the commandments is proof enough that they will never pass. The LORD DOES NOT CHANGE! there is a lot of confusion on this unfortunately.

Blessings brother.

In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult to follow and Romans 10:5-8 references that passage as the word of faith that we proclaim. While there is a distinction between the Ten Commandments and the other commandments, they are all God's commandments and all have the same moral authority. Jesus taught to keep more than just the Ten Commandments by word and by example.

 

[Cameron143]

I speak frequently speak about Christ. The Mosaic Law is God word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so he is the embodiment of the Mosaic Law expressed through walking in sinless obedience to it. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked so it is contradictory to want all that life in Christ brings while not wanting to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the Mosaic Law brings us to Christ because it is God's instructions for how to know him, or in other words, for how to have a relationship with him.

The Bible is about Jesus; not the law.

 

[Soyeong]

The Bible is about Jesus; not the law.

God's law is about Jesus, so that is contradictory.