The Error of KJV-Onlyism

[Dino246]

How about the most famous verse in scripture, John 3:16. Taking the word “begothen” out, makes the false. Jesus was not God’s only Son, but was his only begotten Son.

KJV
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

ESV
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Let's start with the meaning of the word. What does "begotten" mean, that it is critical to this verse?

What "doctrine" is changed by the addition or subtraction of "begotten"?

Does the ESV as a whole represent Jesus as something other than God's only-begotten Son? Single verses don't make doctrines... despite what many KJV-only proponents would have you think.

 

[NightTwister]

Preface:
I'm a Young-Round-Earth We-landed-on-the-Moon KJV-Preferist Creationist.

I'll argue that the KJV is more accurate than almost every
other translation because it distinguishes the singular
and plural versions of the pronoun "you" with "thou" and "ye".

I'll further argue that it's more honest that almost every other translation
in that it, by the use of italics, alerts the reader to words and phrases that
have been added to the text in order to make it more intelligible in English.

Are those circular arguments?

You assume the KJV is the best, then use it to prove it. That's circular reasoning.

 

[Dino246]

My question to the doubters is, since you do not profess to have a perfect bible, why do you refer to it as "God's word"? Would God's word have errors?

The KJV has errors. Why do you refer to it as "God's word"? Would God's word have errors?

Don't bother with "The KJV has no errors"; that's been solidly debunked. Just because you don't accept the reality of the errors present doesn't mean they aren't there for everyone (who isn't completely brainwashed) to see.

 

[Dino246]

Don't you want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

I believe the faith of Jesus Christ is a huge example of a doctrine missed in the new versions. We are justified by the faith of Christ. His faith, his complete obedience to the word of God made him the Just one. Christ's faith is the righteousness of God. That's what the sinner needs. The new versions have "in Christ" instead "of Christ" placing the justification upon the faith of the believer instead of the faith of Christ. Christ is the just and the justifier of them that believe. By whose faith are you justified? I'm depending on the faith of Jesus Christ. His faith never waivered. My faith waivers.

Galatians 2:
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 3:
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

You have been told several times that your interpretation of this verse is faulty, but you continue to use this argument. That says much for you with regard to humility and integrity... none of it good.

 

[p_rehbein]

Seems to me, the argument here is that God can or can not protect the validity of His Written Word. I guess God must not
be as all powerful as we have been taught, huh? That being said, if we did not hear the word
of God from Jesus Himself, we have received corrupted teachings?

(mountain, molehill; one can turn into the other)

 

[Dino246]

There are some 5500 known ancient manuscripts. Of that number 97% agree with the received text of the K.J.B. I like the odds 97% verses 3%. Even the 3% don't agree with each other.

Your point might be valid if this were a democratic issue, but it isn't. There are good reasons why the count of manuscripts in each type is what it is, and good reasons why the statistics are essentially irrelevant.

 

[John146]

Don't bother with "The KJV has no errors"; that's been solidly debunked. Just because you don't accept the reality of the errors present doesn't mean they aren't there for everyone (who isn't completely brainwashed) to see.

Thanks for you opinion as always. You do not accept the reconciliation of these so called errors. That's on you.

 

[John146]

You have been told several times that your interpretation of this verse is faulty, but you continue to use this argument. That says much for you with regard to humility and integrity... none of it good.

"I have been told several times" does not make it true. Let God be true and every man a liar.

 

[John146]

Your point might be valid if this were a democratic issue, but it isn't. There are good reasons why the count of manuscripts in each type is what it is, and good reasons why the statistics are essentially irrelevant.

Alexandria vs Antioch...you decide

 

[Niki7]

Yes or no, can a translation be the holy word of God without error?

God only promised to preserve his word. God commanded that we live by every word. How is that possible if we don't have every word? What will God hold against us since he did not preserve his word? What good is inspiration without preservation?

Well that's a ground covering smokescreen.

Since no one since the history of forever EVER lived by every word, save Jesus, that is a nonsense contribution to a well worn really bad game of let's give KJ homage even though he doth rot in the grave...although prob done rotting by now...just the bones jostling about

How are you or anyone saved? Is it not by the blood of Christ shed on the cross? I don't think you might be aware of just how close you are to a works salvation religion with your adamant posturing on the KJ. Apparently you lack faith to believe that God keeps those who are His whether or not they keep a family sized red letter edition of the KJ in prominent display in their living room

You seem to be keeping faith with an olde translation of the Bible from the original languages. It won't save you. You cannot come to God through a Bible.

That privilege is only invoked through the Lord Jesus Christ.

Since no one I ever met in person or in this forum has ever acknowledged that fact, but rather ignored it and just continued to blab about how human beings have perfected a book that is rife with error(s) while blaming that on God, it would be so refreshing to actually see one of you cheerleaders for KJ root for Jesus instead of a book. Yes I know how dare I call the Bible a book

 

[Dino246]

Thanks for you opinion as always. You do not accept the reconciliation of these so called errors. That's on you.

When you accept as valid the reconciliation of equivalent issues you find in other translations, we can discuss what I think of the reconciliation of issues in the KJV.

You first.

 

[Niki7]

With today's tools, I understand Koine Greek better than they ever did.

Great. You do state that you are unsure of your spiritual status though.

But as long as you understand or are open to understanding that Jesus alone saves. Arguing over the translations is not standing for the truth.

Jesus said that HE is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father God except by accepting Him. Not just lip service.

 

[Dino246]

Alexandria vs Antioch...you decide

Genetic fallacy. Invalid argument.

 

[Niki7]

"I have been told several times" does not make it true. Let God be true and every man a liar.

Oh God is most certainly true but the Bible states that ALL men are liars and I don't see a retraction of that in the New Testament

 

[Mem]

Wasn't King James considered the proverbial "pope" of the protestants at the time? So, it makes sense that many still hold his version the same as Catholics' hold to theirs.

 

[NightTwister]

Seems to me, the argument here is that God can or can not protect the validity of His Written Word. I guess God must not
be as all powerful as we have been taught, huh? That being said, if we did not hear the word
of God from Jesus Himself, we have received corrupted teachings?

(mountain, molehill; one can turn into the other)

You assume that which you must prove, that God must "exactly preserve" His Word at a single point in time, a millennia-and-a-half later, and in only one particular language.

 

[Kroogz]

Don't you want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

I believe the faith of Jesus Christ is a huge example of a doctrine missed in the new versions. We are justified by the faith of Christ. His faith, his complete obedience to the word of God made him the Just one. Christ's faith is the righteousness of God. That's what the sinner needs. The new versions have "in Christ" instead "of Christ" placing the justification upon the faith of the believer instead of the faith of Christ. Christ is the just and the justifier of them that believe. By whose faith are you justified? I'm depending on the faith of Jesus Christ. His faith never waivered. My faith waivers.

Galatians 2:
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 3:
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

I believe that and get that from NASB. What else?

He is faithful,when we are faithless.

 

[Huckleberry]

You assume the KJV is the best, then use it to prove it. That's circular reasoning.

"Assume"? Been studying this for decades.
This is an an exercise in futility.
We don't even agree on what a circular argument is.
I'm out.

 

[NightTwister]

"Assume"? Been studying this for decades.
This is an an exercise in futility.
We don't even agree on what a circular argument is.
I'm out.

Still waiting for proof.
Yes, it is.
You don't agree because it defeats your argument.
Standard response.

 

[Cameron143]

"Assume"? Been studying this for decades.
This is an an exercise in futility.
We don't even agree on what a circular argument is.
I'm out.

If you come back in,and go back out, you will be doing the hokey pokey argument/fallacy.