The Security Of The Believer

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Bible_Highlighter

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One has to do a dance around the clear reading of scripture to force James to agree with Paul. It doesn’t fit. No amount of works can justify someone’s righteousness. The actual example in the passage is:

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

If one feeds or clothes the needy, does that declare they are righteous?
The whole of counsel of God’s Word tells us this:

”Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.” (1 John 3:7).
 

Bible_Highlighter

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One has to do a dance around the clear reading of scripture to force James to agree with Paul. It doesn’t fit. No amount of works can justify someone’s righteousness. The actual example in the passage is:

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

If one feeds or clothes the needy, does that declare they are righteous?
Many Christians love to point out Romans 3:25 in that Jesus is our “propitiation through faith in his blood.”
Yes, this verse is 100% true. We do need to believe in His blood. No doubt about it.
But there is also 1 John 1:7, too. We are to walk in the light as He is in the light and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 1:7 uses the word “If” in the beginning of the verse and so this means it is conditional of whether or not we walk in the light or not. Walking in the light = Loving your brother, according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11. So we have to love our brother in order to meet the continued condition of the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin. Nobody can be saved if the blood of Jesus is not cleansing us.. This is just the tip of the iceberg of verses that the OSAS camp is not dealing with. They see these verses as something one has to explain away or something. I just read these verses and believe them at face value. That’s the difference between us here.
 

mailmandan

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One has to do a dance around the clear reading of scripture to force James to agree with Paul. It doesn’t fit. No amount of works can justify someone’s righteousness. The actual example in the passage is:

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

If one feeds or clothes the needy, does that declare they are righteous?
Scripture must harmonize with scripture and the passages that I shared with you in post #1,333 are in perfect harmony.

When Paul uses the term "justified" he is describing the legal (judicial) act of God by which he accounts the believer as righteous - Romans 4:2-6.

James, however is using the term "justified" to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works they do - James 2:14-24.

We show our faith by our works. (James 2:18)
 

John146

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Scripture must harmonize with scripture
Why? Where is this stated? God has been revealing truth to man throughout the course of human history. What God revealed to Noah was not the same truth for Abraham, or Moses, or David, etc...
 

John146

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Scripture must harmonize with scripture and the passages that I shared with you in post #1,333 are in perfect harmony.

When Paul uses the term "justified" he is describing the legal (judicial) act of God by which he accounts the believer as righteous - Romans 4:2-6.

James, however is using the term "justified" to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works they do - James 2:14-24.

We show our faith by our works. (James 2:18)
So, the word justified can have different meanings in order to fit a certain theology because, God forbid, what James stated was true.

To whom are we justified? Other men? Abraham was not justified before other men, but God. Abraham is the example James uses. Abraham was not justified before God until he offered up Isaac his son.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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From the past couple of pages it does seem like everyone is in agreement those in Christ are following Verse 14 because they obey His commands and have become friends to Christ. That leaves the next question. What are His commands?
What ever commands are needed for you when there needed.

Those would be the commands you follow,

But probably best to recognise the sheep can not hear them without a guardian
 

John146

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Many Christians love to point out Romans 3:25 in that Jesus is our “propitiation through faith in his blood.”
Yes, this verse is 100% true. We do need to believe in His blood. No doubt about it.
But there is also 1 John 1:7, too. We are to walk in the light as He is in the light and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 1:7 uses the word “If” in the beginning of the verse and so this means it is conditional of whether or not we walk in the light or not. Walking in the light = Loving your brother, according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11. So we have to love our brother in order to meet the continued condition of the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin. Nobody can be saved if the blood of Jesus is not cleansing us.. This is just the tip of the iceberg of verses that the OSAS camp is not dealing with. They see these verses as something one has to explain away or something. I just read these verses and believe them at face value. That’s the difference between us here.
What you are missing is the "faith of Jesus Christ." The faith of Christ justifies the believer, for he is the only Just one before God.
 

mailmandan

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In regard to 1 John 1:7, believers were (past tense) once/formerly darkness but are now light in the Lord and we are to walk as children of light. (Ephesians 5:8) *Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is 'descriptive' of children of God.

Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

1 Thessalonians 5:4 - But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother.

*Notice that walks in darkness, hates his brother is 'descriptive' of children of the devil.

1 ohn 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;

Those who practice righteousness do so BECAUSE they are righteous and not in order to become righteous. Works-salvationists and eternal IN-securists confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages and the end result is works-righteousness.
 

mailmandan

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Why? Where is this stated? God has been revealing truth to man throughout the course of human history. What God revealed to Noah was not the same truth for Abraham, or Moses, or David, etc...
If scripture does not harmonize with other scripture then we have contradictions in scripture and there are no contradictions in God's word.
 

mailmandan

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So, the word justified can have different meanings in order to fit a certain theology because, God forbid, what James stated was true.
The word "justified" does have different meanings (depending on the context) as I already shared with you in post #1,333.

To whom are we justified? Other men? Abraham was not justified before other men, but God. Abraham is the example James uses. Abraham was not justified before God until he offered up Isaac his son.
Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) based on his faith and not his works (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3) and many years later he was justified (shown to be righteous) when he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. "Perfect harmony.

In James 2:21, notice that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22.

The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.
 

Bible_Highlighter

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What you are missing is the "faith of Jesus Christ." The faith of Christ justifies the believer, for he is the only Just one before God.
What you’re missing is that most everything in your New Testament is a part of the faith. If God tells you to do something as a part of the New Testament or New Covenant, and you don’t believe it or do it, this is simply a lack of faith. Most Christians today do not believe the warnings in Scripture let alone many other things.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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The word "justified" does have different meanings (depending on the context) as I already shared with you in post #1,333.

Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) based on his faith and not his works (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3) and many years later he was justified (shown to be righteous) when he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. "Perfect harmony.

In James 2:21, notice that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22.

The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.
Who are we to determine what meaning of justified fits into a particular passage? That’s a dangerous way to interpret scripture.
 

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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The word "justified" does have different meanings (depending on the context) as I already shared with you in post #1,333.

Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) based on his faith and not his works (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3) and many years later he was justified (shown to be righteous) when he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. "Perfect harmony.

In James 2:21, notice that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22.

The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.
Bible meanings would always be dependent on the context. God bless
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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The audience takes away any contradiction.
How so? One audience (the Israelites) are "accounted as righteous" by works but not another audience? Is that what you believe?

Abraham being "accounted as righteous" by works in James 2:21 would be in contradiction with Romans 4:2-3 and man being "accounted as righteous" in James 2:24 would be in contradiction with Romans 4:5-6. Period.
 

Bible_Highlighter

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Nov 28, 2023
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What you are missing is the "faith of Jesus Christ." The faith of Christ justifies the believer, for he is the only Just one before God.
Romans 10:17 says, “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”

I understand this as believing everything in our Bible. The faith starts off as believing in Jesus as our Savior and believing the saving gospel message. We believe the gospel in Corinthians 15:1-4 in that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen the third day for our salvation. Cornelius and his house believed the important aspects of this message and they received the Spirit. They were saved initially by the believing the gospel message. But one’s faith or instructions from God in the New Testament does not end with believing the gospel. There are many other things we have to believe and do as a part of the faith. For example: A person does not need to believe in the Trinity to be initially saved, but if they later hear about the Godhead in Scripture and reject that doctrine or truth, they are then not saved. Why? Nobody can worship a false God and expect to be right with the Lord.
 

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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What Paul sees in "Justification" is of God while James based on the context sees" Justification" is of man giving proof of his faith.
 

mailmandan

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Who are we to determine what meaning of justified fits into a particular passage? That’s a dangerous way to interpret scripture.
Properly harmonizing scrpture with scripture (in order to avoid contradictions in scripture) before reaching our conclusion on doctrine is not dangerous.

An interpretation of scripture that results in contradiction to other scripture and culminates in works righteousness is dangerous.
 

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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[Continued from my previous post to you]:

A true “KJV Only believer“ only reads or examines Modern Bibles to point out their flaws or errors.
They will never read Modern Bibles to help update any meanings or gain any extra insight into the KJB.
However, I have been blessed many times by the readings in Modern Translations and older dictionaries when looking at difficult or archaic words in the King James Bible. For example: “Faith to faith“ (Romans 1:17) (KJB) is explained as from the beginning of our faith to the end of our faith in Modern Translations, which really helps. So while I believe Modern Bibles are corrupt and teach false doctrines, I believe that God has placed them there as a part of His greater plan for good, too. Meaning, God can turn a bad situation around for good. Sometimes Contemporary Translations can be very helpful. But I would not recommend Modern Bibles as one’s final word of authority, though. There can only be one Word of God and not many. In my view: Modern Bibles are like a dictionary. Sometimes the definition fits, and sometimes it doesn’t. But my authority is not in a dictionary made by men.
Well, this is not to derail the thread, but I see you as KJB preferred what you call yourself "Core KJB". Well, a real KJB Only is not only after pointing out errors of the Modern Bibles. They preach on it. They believe what it says. I don't believe they "never" read modern versions. They are reading for comparisons. They too used dictionaries but the dictionaries were not their "Final" authority. I think KJV-onlylists are the same as KJB Finally.