Going in and out of God's grace, favor, Kingdom and the like.

[know1]

I see a correlation and intertwining between the grace, favor and power of God, works of faith, believing in the word/promises of God, and being spiritually minded, to be the same as, being in the secret place and Kingdom of God/heaven, being in the body of and in Christ Jesus, or what I call, the world of faith, where all things are possible with God to them that believe.
I am convinced based on my understanding of scripture, that every born again child of God goes in and out of all of the above listed, multiple times in their life.
And the opposite or reciprocal of that would be doubt, fear, worry, wishing, hoping, wondering, works of the law, carnally, naturally, or logically minded, and the like, subjecting the same said Born again child of God to the natural laws of this physical world.
This same said physical world is where, I believe, most Born again Christians live, operate in, and are subject to, most of their lives. And I believe that is because of what they were taught by the leaders of the church. And through the same said leader's failures to receive from God, that which they ask for, they in turn, rationalized and reasoned away the truths in God's word/promises.
Jesus said, according to one interpretation, "the kingdom of God is within you".
And again he said,"where your treasure is, there will your heart be also". And where are your heart is, there you are.
Jesus also said, "if a man abide not in me.."
Which is another way of saying, not only is it possible to go in and out of Jesus, but there will be those who do not abide or continue in Christ Jesus.
Another way of saying, they were once in Christ Jesus and then went out of the same.
In Romans 11, Paul talks about the natural branch, being the Jews, were cut off from the Vine due to unbelief, but would be grafted back into the Vine, if they turn from their doubt and believe.
And though this is not the same as a child of God going in and out of Christ, it is similar in concept and nature of God.
To be in Christ Jesus is to be in the kingdom of God, is it not?
I think the example of Peter walking on the water with Jesus, is a good example of temporarily being in the Kingdom of God and then going out of the same said Kingdom.
While Peter was walking in the world of faith, he defied the laws of nature, or that of this physical world, and walked on the water with Jesus.
But when he lost sight of the word of God, and started looking at the natural world and all that was going on around him, he left the world of faith, or the kingdom of heaven, and was then subject to the natural laws of this physical world, and started to sink, like everyone else of this world would do.
So do we go in and out of the Kingdom of God, without losing our salvation, or are we always and forever in the same said Kingdom?

 

[Magenta]

John10:9 I am the gate. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture.

 

[JaumeJ]

John10:9 I am the gate. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture.

This teaching comes to my min, heart and soul every morning . It is so meaningful. God bless you.

 

[Magenta]

This teaching comes to my min, heart and soul every morning . It is so meaningful. God bless you.

What a wonderful way to start every day! Thank you, JaumeJ! May God continue to richly bless you as well!!!

Christmas 2023

 

[Nehemiah6]

So do we go in and out of the Kingdom of God, without losing our salvation, or are we always and forever in the same said Kingdom?

No one goes "in and out of the Kingdom of God". As Christ said regarding the New Birth, those who have been born again will enter and see the Kingdom of God. And God's grace is not like the weather -- varying from day to day.

At the same time Christians can either "walk in the Spirit" or yield to the flesh (the sin nature). And this can affect their fellowship with God. Once again, because God has provided every believer with the Holy Spirit, all can walk in the Spirit.

 

[10-22-27]

I see a correlation and intertwining between the grace, favor and power of God, works of faith, believing in the word/promises of God, and being spiritually minded, to be the same as, being in the secret place and Kingdom of God/heaven, being in the body of and in Christ Jesus, or what I call, the world of faith, where all things are possible with God to them that believe.
I am convinced based on my understanding of scripture, that every born again child of God goes in and out of all of the above listed, multiple times in their life.
And the opposite or reciprocal of that would be doubt, fear, worry, wishing, hoping, wondering, works of the law, carnally, naturally, or logically minded, and the like, subjecting the same said Born again child of God to the natural laws of this physical world.
This same said physical world is where, I believe, most Born again Christians live, operate in, and are subject to, most of their lives. And I believe that is because of what they were taught by the leaders of the church. And through the same said leader's failures to receive from God, that which they ask for, they in turn, rationalized and reasoned away the truths in God's word/promises.
Jesus said, according to one interpretation, "the kingdom of God is within you".
And again he said,"where your treasure is, there will your heart be also". And where are your heart is, there you are.
Jesus also said, "if a man abide not in me.."
Which is another way of saying, not only is it possible to go in and out of Jesus, but there will be those who do not abide or continue in Christ Jesus.
Another way of saying, they were once in Christ Jesus and then went out of the same.
In Romans 11, Paul talks about the natural branch, being the Jews, were cut off from the Vine due to unbelief, but would be grafted back into the Vine, if they turn from their doubt and believe.
And though this is not the same as a child of God going in and out of Christ, it is similar in concept and nature of God.
To be in Christ Jesus is to be in the kingdom of God, is it not?
I think the example of Peter walking on the water with Jesus, is a good example of temporarily being in the Kingdom of God and then going out of the same said Kingdom.
While Peter was walking in the world of faith, he defied the laws of nature, or that of this physical world, and walked on the water with Jesus.
But when he lost sight of the word of God, and started looking at the natural world and all that was going on around him, he left the world of faith, or the kingdom of heaven, and was then subject to the natural laws of this physical world, and started to sink, like everyone else of this world would do.
So do we go in and out of the Kingdom of God, without losing our salvation, or are we always and forever in the same said Kingdom?

Good article: With the grace of God, sin is weakened, Satan loses his grip, the world looks less attractive, and we are less attracted to the things of this world. We are to keep our eyes on the heavenly things of God. To grow in grace is to progress in understanding our Creator and our lives. Growth in grace discovers itself with the increase of spiritual light, knowledge, and understanding. In this, we become more dependent on Jesus Christ. Our testimony, love for our neighbor, work for Christ, humility, submissiveness, and thankfulness will increase ten-thousand-fold.

 

[know1]

No one goes "in and out of the Kingdom of God". As Christ said regarding the New Birth, those who have been born again will enter and see the Kingdom of God. And God's grace is not like the weather -- varying from day to day.

At the same time Christians can either "walk in the Spirit" or yield to the flesh (the sin nature). And this can affect their fellowship with God. Once again, because God has provided every believer with the Holy Spirit, all can walk in the Spirit.

It is written, I am the door of the sheep.
And again, I am the door, by me, if any man enter in, he shall be saved, he shall go in and out and find pasture.
If Jesus is the door or gate to the sheepfold, and one goes in through said door / gate, and I'm just assuming, but there seems to be only one way in, it therefore stands to reason, there would only be one way out and that is through the same door they went in.
Now the Bible does say, they went out after going in, and it doesn't say anything about them losing their sheepship, or rather their sonship after they left.
So I don't see how this relates to one going in and out of their salvation. As I already stated in my prior post.
It is also written in John 15, but if a man does not bear good fruit or does not ABIDE or CONTINUE in the Vine, which is Christ, he will dry up and be withered, as a dead branch..
The same thing happened in the parable of the wayward or prodigal son who left his father's house/Kingdom to go to a far away land. Because he was no longer nourished by his father and his kingdom, his money, food, and water all dried up and he started to wither away, just like the branch that failed to continue in the Vine.
He might have been dead to his father, but he never lost his sonship, and his father put him back in the same position he was in before he left.

 

[Nehemiah6]

And again, I am the door, by me, if any man enter in, he shall be saved, he shall go in and out and find pasture.

Notice. It is to find "pasture" and then return to the sheepfold in the evening.

What does it mean "to find pasture"? Since pasture is for grass (which is food) the spiritual application is to feed on the Word of God. How does one feed on the Word of God? By personal study as well as the spiritual food provided by evangelists, pastors, and teachers. And what does "the sheepfold" mean? Is it not where sheep rest at night? So what is the spiritual application? Is it not to spend time with God and Christ in prayer, and also to rest in the Lord and wait patiently for Him? So there is not even a hint of going in and out of the Kingdom of God.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

This is how I see this verse from what the Lord has revealed to me about our body which he has created for his glory.The stone that the builders have rejected has come the cornerstone.This is our brain that is the cornerstone which God has created in his image.Jesus is the cornerstone.
Having his Word written on the two stone tablets in our skull is us having him,and living how he wants us to live, in our thoughts.And it is the same as having the seal of the Living God written in our foreheads.

The mind goes to and fro.Maybe your mind is on something else like a planned event.Or maybe you are going through trials and tribulations.That's what it is by going in and out.
That's as an individual though.When you are going in,you are finding pasture,or rest in him.
But as a Church as a whole,When you're going out,you are preaching the word of God out in the wilderness,outside the temple court,and you're finding pasture/rest for the lost fold.

 

[Gideon300]

I see a correlation and intertwining between the grace, favor and power of God, works of faith, believing in the word/promises of God, and being spiritually minded, to be the same as, being in the secret place and Kingdom of God/heaven, being in the body of and in Christ Jesus, or what I call, the world of faith, where all things are possible with God to them that believe.
I am convinced based on my understanding of scripture, that every born again child of God goes in and out of all of the above listed, multiple times in their life.
And the opposite or reciprocal of that would be doubt, fear, worry, wishing, hoping, wondering, works of the law, carnally, naturally, or logically minded, and the like, subjecting the same said Born again child of God to the natural laws of this physical world.
This same said physical world is where, I believe, most Born again Christians live, operate in, and are subject to, most of their lives. And I believe that is because of what they were taught by the leaders of the church. And through the same said leader's failures to receive from God, that which they ask for, they in turn, rationalized and reasoned away the truths in God's word/promises.
Jesus said, according to one interpretation, "the kingdom of God is within you".
And again he said,"where your treasure is, there will your heart be also". And where are your heart is, there you are.
Jesus also said, "if a man abide not in me.."
Which is another way of saying, not only is it possible to go in and out of Jesus, but there will be those who do not abide or continue in Christ Jesus.
Another way of saying, they were once in Christ Jesus and then went out of the same.
In Romans 11, Paul talks about the natural branch, being the Jews, were cut off from the Vine due to unbelief, but would be grafted back into the Vine, if they turn from their doubt and believe.
And though this is not the same as a child of God going in and out of Christ, it is similar in concept and nature of God.
To be in Christ Jesus is to be in the kingdom of God, is it not?
I think the example of Peter walking on the water with Jesus, is a good example of temporarily being in the Kingdom of God and then going out of the same said Kingdom.
While Peter was walking in the world of faith, he defied the laws of nature, or that of this physical world, and walked on the water with Jesus.
But when he lost sight of the word of God, and started looking at the natural world and all that was going on around him, he left the world of faith, or the kingdom of heaven, and was then subject to the natural laws of this physical world, and started to sink, like everyone else of this world would do.
So do we go in and out of the Kingdom of God, without losing our salvation, or are we always and forever in the same said Kingdom?

It is possible to be born again and yet be disqualified from the Kingdom of God. This refers to the earthly Kingdom that Jesus is to establish for His 1000 year reign on earth. Being born again enables us to see the kingdom of God. Walking in the Spirit enables us to experience the power of the Kingdom of God.

 

[Jimbone]

It is possible to be born again and yet be disqualified from the Kingdom of God. This refers to the earthly Kingdom that Jesus is to establish for His 1000 year reign on earth. Being born again enables us to see the kingdom of God. Walking in the Spirit enables us to experience the power of the Kingdom of God.

I would really like the scripture you use to formulate this. What is the distinction between being able to see the kingdom of God and us "experiencing the power of the Kingdom of God"?

I experienced His power first hand when I was born again. He rewrote my heart and mind overnight and changed me from the inside out in a way I NEVER could, He opened my eyes to things that were right in front of my face, but never noticed. You're creating two distinct categories here and I want to know #1 where do you read this in His word? #2 How on earth do I qualify for the better one?

What you're saying here is foreign to me, can you please break it down to clarify? With scripture as well please.

 

[Gideon300]

I would really like the scripture you use to formulate this. What is the distinction between being able to see the kingdom of God and us "experiencing the power of the Kingdom of God"?

I experienced His power first hand when I was born again. He rewrote my heart and mind overnight and changed me from the inside out in a way I NEVER could, He opened my eyes to things that were right in front of my face, but never noticed. You're creating two distinct categories here and I want to know #1 where do you read this in His word? #2 How on earth do I qualify for the better one?

What you're saying here is foreign to me, can you please break it down to clarify? With scripture as well please.

The gospel we preach should be the gospel of the Kingdom. It's unfortunate that the gospel has been watered down to a gospel of "not going to hell when you die" and little else. The kingdom gospel is Luke 4:18 and is fundamentally the good news of deliverance.

No problem.

1. Only those who are born again can see the Kingdom of God (John 3:3)
2. The kingdom of God is something that we must enter into. It is not automatic (Acts 14:22)
3. The kingdom of God is to be sought - again, not automatic (Matthew 6:33)
4. Paul warned the Corinthians that the unrighteous would not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9)

1 Corinthians chapter 5 helps to clarify this. There were some people in the church who obviously did not get the memo that Jesus would save us from our sin, not enable us to live guilt free in sin.

"When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, along with the power of the Lord Jesus, hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord."

The idea of a "sinful believer" seems to be an oxymoron. However, some Christians are unwilling to forsake sin. Some will have a saved spirit but no placement in God's kingdom. This is a tragic waste. We get one life to live to prepare us for the next life.

That the man remained a brother in Christ is clear from Paul's advice to the Corinthians following the man's expulsion from the church.

2 Corinthians 2:5-8

"Now if anyone has caused grief, he has not grieved me but all of you—to some degree, not to overstate it. The punishment imposed on him by the majority is sufficient for him. So instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love for him."

I see the principle being if the individual wants to live like an unbeliever, he/she should be treated like one. Also, the door should always be open should the person be repentant.

 

[Jimbone]

The gospel we preach should be the gospel of the Kingdom. It's unfortunate that the gospel has been watered down to a gospel of "not going to hell when you die" and little else. The kingdom gospel is Luke 4:18 and is fundamentally the good news of deliverance.

No problem.

1. Only those who are born again can see the Kingdom of God (John 3:3)
2. The kingdom of God is something that we must enter into. It is not automatic (Acts 14:22)
3. The kingdom of God is to be sought - again, not automatic (Matthew 6:33)
4. Paul warned the Corinthians that the unrighteous would not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9)

1 Corinthians chapter 5 helps to clarify this. There were some people in the church who obviously did not get the memo that Jesus would save us from our sin, not enable us to live guilt free in sin.

"When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, along with the power of the Lord Jesus, hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord."

The idea of a "sinful believer" seems to be an oxymoron. However, some Christians are unwilling to forsake sin. Some will have a saved spirit but no placement in God's kingdom. This is a tragic waste. We get one life to live to prepare us for the next life.

That the man remained a brother in Christ is clear from Paul's advice to the Corinthians following the man's expulsion from the church.

2 Corinthians 2:5-8

"Now if anyone has caused grief, he has not grieved me but all of you—to some degree, not to overstate it. The punishment imposed on him by the majority is sufficient for him. So instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love for him."

I see the principle being if the individual wants to live like an unbeliever, he/she should be treated like one. Also, the door should always be open should the person be repentant.

Not a bad breakdown at all. You gave me exactly what I was asking for in a very well organized way. Nice job.

I also agree with much of what you're saying, at first and about being born again. Our biggest conflict is going to come down to perspective in the end and how we look at the nature of Gods work, our nature, and where the glory belongs.
As you read in the comment you replied to, when I was born again I was spiritually resurrected and my once dead but now alive spirit was reconciled, by His grace, to His Spirit again, this "lifts the veil", opens our eyes to the TRUTH that God is REAL and Jesus is His Son and now empowering me for the first time to live in a way that is pleasing to the Father, putting the old me to death and making me a NEW creation. This is when I entered into His kingdom, not a kingdom we point to and say "there it is", or "come into this room the kingdom is here", but one that grows like the mustard seed and eventually covers the whole garden, or like leaven works it's way through the whole measure of dough.

I understand what being born again is, and that is only through His Power and is when He brings us into Him, into His kingdom. I think we agree on John 3:3, but the next verse you use, Acts 14:22, is ripped out of context and you're trying to make it mean something it's not saying. Just a different perspective on the words. Paul was just stoned and dumped outside the city as dead, and then got back up and went right back to preaching Jesus. This is not talking about us struggling to obey or lose salvation. I'm bold enough to lay it out there like this, If you've truly experienced the transforming power of our Creator in truth, by His grace, through the blood of Jesus taking the just wrath of God that we deserved so that He can justly and mercifully save us, who couldn't ever save ourselves, then you will never turn from Him and NOTHING could ever separate me from Him. That's what Paul was talking about in Acts 14:22, was the world trying to separate him from his God given purpose. Read the whole chapter, absolutely not about us struggling to hold on to our salvation.

Yep if you seek you find, if you knock the door will be opened. Again all a difference in how we see this text. We are told to seek, we are told to knock, but what else does it say? The door WILL be open, you WILL find. I wouldn't say "automatic", but would say that we are transformed in an instant. The bible tells us this along with my first hand experience having such an overnight radical rebirth.

This verse you used from 1 Cor is warning them about disputes with each other the reminds them that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom and breaks down a list, then he ends it with "such WERE some of you, BUT you've been washed clean".
So really this is not supporting your case in my opinion, nor is anything I'd disagree with.

The rest of what you said I really didn't think addresses my original question to you, and to be honest I don't think you even touched it at all.

Here was my 2 questions " You're creating two distinct categories here and I want to know #1 where do you read this in His word? #2 How on earth do I qualify for the better one?"
So what are these 2 states called, and where are these categories found exactly? Then where does it tell us what we have to do to get the better option?

Again I appreciate the time and effort used to reply, I just can't help but notice you didn't answer at all.

 

[know1]

Notice. It is to find "pasture" and then return to the sheepfold in the evening.

What does it mean "to find pasture"? Since pasture is for grass (which is food) the spiritual application is to feed on the Word of God. How does one feed on the Word of God? By personal study as well as the spiritual food provided by evangelists, pastors, and teachers. And what does "the sheepfold" mean? Is it not where sheep rest at night? So what is the spiritual application? Is it not to spend time with God and Christ in prayer, and also to rest in the Lord and wait patiently for Him? So there is not even a hint of going in and out of the Kingdom of God.

Let's see if we can put this in the proper context.
The subject of the verse is, a man gaining salvation through Christ, who says he is the door, gate, entrance, gateway, opening, or portal, to what might be construed as an enclosure of some kind, where the rest of the saved are gathered together. Similar to a church service in a building. Only, we are not gathered together literally, we are spread out all over the world, so it might be referring more to a state of being. Unless it is referring to us being seated together in Christ Jesus in heavenly places.
Or it could refer to all who are born again as being in the body of Christ. Of which, we are members of.
And speaking of the body, didn't Jesus say, if any part of our body offend us, cut it off or pluck it out? And if he commanded us to do that, would Jesus be a hypocrite and do any less to those who have offended him, who are in his body? Would he tell us to cut something off, if he wasn't willing to do the same to those who have offended him?
Or is it referring more to the status or state of a person, such as being a son or daughter of God the Father?
There are also a number of instances and parables stating that God would cut down any of his trees that failed to bear fruit or good fruit.
And as it is stated in a prior post, in John 15, Jesus clearly tell his disciples to abide in him, and he would not have said that, if it wasn't possible for that to happen.
1 John 2:24 also says the same thing. Stating, and if the word of God abides in the believer, then the believer will abide in Christ. It is therefore logical to assume that if you do not keep the word of God in you, you will not continue in the Son.
And one last thing. For you to say, there isn't even a hint of going in or out, when it's written in plain Greek and English, this is to deny the clear reality of what is written before all our eyes. And it is a form of twisting or perverting the word of God or the truth.

 

[Nehemiah6]

And speaking of the body, didn't Jesus say, if any part of our body offend us, cut it off or pluck it out?

That is a misapplication of this Scripture. And you did not want to face the truth about the misinterpretation of the sheepfold and the pasture. So why do you call yourself know1?

 

[know1]

That is a misapplication of this Scripture. And you did not want to face the truth about the misinterpretation of the sheepfold and the pasture. So why do you call yourself know1?

The part about the pasture seemed to be on the mark. It was the rest of what you wrote about that I didn't agree with.

 

[Gideon300]

Not a bad breakdown at all. You gave me exactly what I was asking for in a very well organized way. Nice job.

I also agree with much of what you're saying, at first and about being born again. Our biggest conflict is going to come down to perspective in the end and how we look at the nature of Gods work, our nature, and where the glory belongs.
As you read in the comment you replied to, when I was born again I was spiritually resurrected and my once dead but now alive spirit was reconciled, by His grace, to His Spirit again, this "lifts the veil", opens our eyes to the TRUTH that God is REAL and Jesus is His Son and now empowering me for the first time to live in a way that is pleasing to the Father, putting the old me to death and making me a NEW creation. This is when I entered into His kingdom, not a kingdom we point to and say "there it is", or "come into this room the kingdom is here", but one that grows like the mustard seed and eventually covers the whole garden, or like leaven works it's way through the whole measure of dough.

I understand what being born again is, and that is only through His Power and is when He brings us into Him, into His kingdom. I think we agree on John 3:3, but the next verse you use, Acts 14:22, is ripped out of context and you're trying to make it mean something it's not saying. Just a different perspective on the words. Paul was just stoned and dumped outside the city as dead, and then got back up and went right back to preaching Jesus. This is not talking about us struggling to obey or lose salvation. I'm bold enough to lay it out there like this, If you've truly experienced the transforming power of our Creator in truth, by His grace, through the blood of Jesus taking the just wrath of God that we deserved so that He can justly and mercifully save us, who couldn't ever save ourselves, then you will never turn from Him and NOTHING could ever separate me from Him. That's what Paul was talking about in Acts 14:22, was the world trying to separate him from his God given purpose. Read the whole chapter, absolutely not about us struggling to hold on to our salvation.

Yep if you seek you find, if you knock the door will be opened. Again all a difference in how we see this text. We are told to seek, we are told to knock, but what else does it say? The door WILL be open, you WILL find. I wouldn't say "automatic", but would say that we are transformed in an instant. The bible tells us this along with my first hand experience having such an overnight radical rebirth.

This verse you used from 1 Cor is warning them about disputes with each other the reminds them that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom and breaks down a list, then he ends it with "such WERE some of you, BUT you've been washed clean".
So really this is not supporting your case in my opinion, nor is anything I'd disagree with.

The rest of what you said I really didn't think addresses my original question to you, and to be honest I don't think you even touched it at all.

Here was my 2 questions " You're creating two distinct categories here and I want to know #1 where do you read this in His word? #2 How on earth do I qualify for the better one?"
So what are these 2 states called, and where are these categories found exactly? Then where does it tell us what we have to do to get the better option?

Again I appreciate the time and effort used to reply, I just can't help but notice you didn't answer at all.

In case you were wondering, I start from the premise that those who are born again cannot lose their salvation and cannot be "unborn" again.

What if you do not seek? What if you do not knock? Some Christians, and I've met a few, simply don't want to change. The hardest ones are those who have lived reasonably good lives. They do not see the need for a total transformation. A number of Christians also want God to fix up the old life rather than them enter into the new. Until and unless the believer sees their need, they will not ask God to deliver them.

This is why trouble is necessary. I wish it were otherwise. I was sure that I was a good person, in spite being suicidally depressed and a drunk. I had many misconceptions about the kind of person that I was. I embraced the Christian life with zeal. I went from shunning God's word to soaking it up like a sponge.

I had to discover that I was also a "wretched man" as Paul did. Romans 6 is about deliverance from sin. Romans 7 is about deliverance from the sinner, the self of the soul. Romans 8 is about the victory that is ours, but only through Christ. Kingdom living is victory living.

"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power." 1 Corinthians 4:20
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit." Romans 14:17

Yes, all who are born again are righteous and have the fruit of the Spirit. Yet, as the case of the Corinthian sinner shows, not all live a righteous life.

"Therefore, while the promise of entering His rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be deemed to have fallen short of it." Hebrews 4:1
"See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God, and that no root of bitterness springs up to cause trouble and defile many." Hebrews 12:15
"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Galatians 5:4

Another helpful passage is 2 Peter 1:3-11. Peter tells the church what is ours in Christ. He then exhorts believers to "add" to their faith and lists the qualities that we should show. Hang on. I thought we had all that already? Yes, but it is not necessarily being expressed. Each believer is responsible for his own Christian walk.

Another way too look at this is "losing to gain". We need to lose the life that we inherit from Adam, called the natural man or the soul life. Then we will be able to choose Christ to live in our place. (Luke 9:24).

It is not possible for two objects to occupy the same place. Likewise in the Christian life. Either self rules or Christ rules. There is no in between. For sure, Christians can switch from one to the other quickly, especially the immature. Peter was one moment receiving the wonderful revelation from God and the next being rebuked for thinking the thoughts of men (Matthew 16:23)

If we sin, we cut off fellowship with Christ. We do not lose relationship. The prodigal son was accepted back by his father without word of condemnation, only with great joy. The son was restored to his position. The parable is more about the father than it is about the son. The heart of God is to forgive and restore.

Coming to know these truths takes time. I spent 40 years of my Christian life at war with myself over these things. Finally, God broke through and I saw that I really did die with Christ and I really did rise again to be a new creation. Not only was there nothing I need do, there was nothing that I could do! What Jesus did for me happened 2,000 years ago. I can neither add to or take away from the great salvation that Jesus bought for me. However, it is possible to neglect this great salvation. I did that for a time and I know what its like to fall into the hands of the "consuming fire" of God's judgement.

Every Christian that I know of faces a crisis at least once in their lives. It is a time when God places His finger on the thing that is most precious to us. It is the thing that is a blockage to our ongoing walk. For me, it was a call to be a Baptist pastor. I'd just finished saying to God that I would do anything for Him. Then it was, "Anything but that!" It took me a long time to accept God's will. As it happened, the pastor who advised me was wrong and it was not God's will. However, it exposed my self deception. We all have a personal "Gethsemane" where God's will seems abhorrent. If we will, by His grace, accept His will, we will win a great victory and we will grow in Christ from that time on.

I tried to keep it simple previously. You ask good questions and the answers are not superficial. I hope what I've said is more helpful this time.

 

[Kroogz]

In case you were wondering, I start from the premise that those who are born again cannot lose their salvation and cannot be "unborn" again.

What if you do not seek? What if you do not knock? Some Christians, and I've met a few, simply don't want to change. The hardest ones are those who have lived reasonably good lives. They do not see the need for a total transformation. A number of Christians also want God to fix up the old life rather than them enter into the new. Until and unless the believer sees their need, they will not ask God to deliver them.

This is why trouble is necessary. I wish it were otherwise. I was sure that I was a good person, in spite being suicidally depressed and a drunk. I had many misconceptions about the kind of person that I was. I embraced the Christian life with zeal. I went from shunning God's word to soaking it up like a sponge.

I had to discover that I was also a "wretched man" as Paul did. Romans 6 is about deliverance from sin. Romans 7 is about deliverance from the sinner, the self of the soul. Romans 8 is about the victory that is ours, but only through Christ. Kingdom living is victory living.

"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power." 1 Corinthians 4:20
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit." Romans 14:17

Yes, all who are born again are righteous and have the fruit of the Spirit. Yet, as the case of the Corinthian sinner shows, not all live a righteous life.

"Therefore, while the promise of entering His rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be deemed to have fallen short of it." Hebrews 4:1
"See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God, and that no root of bitterness springs up to cause trouble and defile many." Hebrews 12:15
"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Galatians 5:4

Another helpful passage is 2 Peter 1:3-11. Peter tells the church what is ours in Christ. He then exhorts believers to "add" to their faith and lists the qualities that we should show. Hang on. I thought we had all that already? Yes, but it is not necessarily being expressed. Each believer is responsible for his own Christian walk.

Another way too look at this is "losing to gain". We need to lose the life that we inherit from Adam, called the natural man or the soul life. Then we will be able to choose Christ to live in our place. (Luke 9:24).

It is not possible for two objects to occupy the same place. Likewise in the Christian life. Either self rules or Christ rules. There is no in between. For sure, Christians can switch from one to the other quickly, especially the immature. Peter was one moment receiving the wonderful revelation from God and the next being rebuked for thinking the thoughts of men (Matthew 16:23)

If we sin, we cut off fellowship with Christ. We do not lose relationship. The prodigal son was accepted back by his father without word of condemnation, only with great joy. The son was restored to his position. The parable is more about the father than it is about the son. The heart of God is to forgive and restore.

Coming to know these truths takes time. I spent 40 years of my Christian life at war with myself over these things. Finally, God broke through and I saw that I really did die with Christ and I really did rise again to be a new creation. Not only was there nothing I need do, there was nothing that I could do! What Jesus did for me happened 2,000 years ago. I can neither add to or take away from the great salvation that Jesus bought for me. However, it is possible to neglect this great salvation. I did that for a time and I know what its like to fall into the hands of the "consuming fire" of God's judgement.

Every Christian that I know of faces a crisis at least once in their lives. It is a time when God places His finger on the thing that is most precious to us. It is the thing that is a blockage to our ongoing walk. For me, it was a call to be a Baptist pastor. I'd just finished saying to God that I would do anything for Him. Then it was, "Anything but that!" It took me a long time to accept God's will. As it happened, the pastor who advised me was wrong and it was not God's will. However, it exposed my self deception. We all have a personal "Gethsemane" where God's will seems abhorrent. If we will, by His grace, accept His will, we will win a great victory and we will grow in Christ from that time on.

I tried to keep it simple previously. You ask good questions and the answers are not superficial. I hope what I've said is more helpful this time.

Wonderful stuff brother. I can relate to a LOT of what you say.
It was a wonderful experience for me when I finally found a GRACE teacher. All I ever heard was "not really saved" or "lost salvation." these were the only 2 options.

Eternal security.PERIOD.

Now we have a race to run. We can be winners or losers. And from all the warnings in His word, God takes this race seriously. He wants us to win.

 

[know1]

That is a misapplication of this Scripture.

How so? And do tell please.

 

[Gideon300]

Wonderful stuff brother. I can relate to a LOT of what you say.
It was a wonderful experience for me when I finally found a GRACE teacher. All I ever heard was "not really saved" or "lost salvation." these were the only 2 options.

Eternal security.PERIOD.

Now we have a race to run. We can be winners or losers. And from all the warnings in His word, God takes this race seriously. He wants us to win.

Absolutely!