Where does the justification for The New Testament doers of the law in Romans 2:13 originate from?

[Mem]

and no better way to knock yourself out, even though there IS a more excellent Way to be justified.

 

[HumbleBee]

and no better way to knock yourself out, even though there IS a more excellent way to be justified.

The doers of the law shall be justified; there is no better way than to be justified.

 

[Mem]

Gee whiz, you're don't even seem to be a hearer of the word, let alone a doer.

 

[HumbleBee]

Gee whiz, you're don't even seem to be a hearer of the word, let alone a doer.

Romans 2:11-15
11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For whosoever have sinned without the law, shall perish without the law; and whosoever have sinned in the law, shall be judged by the law. 13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature those things that are of the law; these having not the law are a law to themselves: 15 Who shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness to them, and their thoughts between themselves accusing, or also defending one another,

 

[Soyeong]

I would suggest to you that the first 11 chapters of the Romans are one basic point. Paul is trying to explain to the Jews that they need to quit trusting in being children of Abraham, trusting the law and circumcision and to trust in Christ (faith). They have a hard time imagining they can be justified without those things. I can see why it would be difficult for them. They had been taught that for over a thousand years. They trusted that being God's chosen people, the law and circumcision made them righteous in God's sight.

So he first points out that even though they had those things, if they were not doers of the law then they were condemned. He points out they're hypocrisy.
3 But do you suppose this, you foolish person who passes judgment on those who practice such things, and yet does them as well, that you will escape the judgment of God?

He tells them if they don't practice the law, then they are uncircumcised. The uncircumcised were cut off from the people, Gen. 17:14.
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a violator of the Law, your circumcision has turned into uncircumcision.

There's a lot to it but that is the basic idea. They have died to those things and now are justified in Christ without those things.
I would read the first 11 chapters to get a better picture.

God is trustworthy, therefore His instructions are also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obediently trusting in His instructions and it is contradictory for someone to think that we should trust God, but should not trust His instructions. When someone does something in obedience to God, then the significance is not that it is part of something that they are required to have done first in order to earn their righteousness as the result, but rather the significance is that they are expressing in faith, and it is by that faith that we are declared righteous.

While the only way to become righteous is through faith apart from being required to have first done righteous works in order to earn it as a wage, becoming righteous through faith means becoming a doer of righteous works through faith, so it is contradictory to become righteous apart from becoming a doer of righteous works, which is why the faith by which we are declares righteous does not abolish our need to do righteous works in obedience to God's law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:28-31). In other words, becoming someone who will be declared righteous, someone who has faith, and someone who is a doer of the law all happen as the same time and anyone who lacks one also lacks the others, but are not declared righteous as the result of having first been a doer of the law, so it is the case that only doers of the law will be declared righteous.

 

[Mem]

Look what I can do!

 

[Soyeong]

The Lord Jesus Christ.
The Law requires perfection in order to be justified through it.

All gentiles have sinned, even without the law.
All Jews have sinned with the law.

So both classes are EMPTY of justified people.

So Paul gave a zinger to the self righteous Jew. "The doers of the law shall be justified." The law requires perfection. Even the self righteous know they failed at some point. And Paul goes on to point it out in the verses ahead.

Even if someone managed to have perfect obedience to God's law, then we still would not earn our justification as a wage (Romans 4:1-5), so that was never the goal of why we should obey it. In Romans 3:21-22, it does not say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through perfect obedience, but rather the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through Christ for all who believe. While only Jesus lived in perfect obedience to God's law, there are many examples of people who were doers of the law, such as those in Joshua 22:1-3, Luke 1:5-6, Revelation 14:12, and Revelation 22:14, so it is not the case that no one but Jesus is a doer of the law. People can still be justified even when they have not had perfect obedience to God's law, so it does not require perfect obedience.

 

[Mem]

 

[Soyeong]

Even though it is true that doers of the law are justified by the law, there is no one justified other than Jesus that was actually justified by the law so, you are a hearer of the law only, because you failed to do it, and you can't use Jesus as an excuse for a "do over." On the other hand, I'm a doer of the word (the promise). That is, I believe it! And receive my inheritance without the requirement to do the law, the avenue you'd rather take to obtain your inheritance, which only ONE has ever done.

For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God freely granted it to Abraham through a promise.-Galatians 3:18

While we do not earn the promise as the result of having first obeyed God's law, that does not mean that the obedience to God's law is not central to the content of what the promise is in regard to.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which is in accordance with Jesus being sent to bless us in fulfillment of the promise by turning us from our wickedness, which was the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), which he preached to Gentiles in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5).

In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach His children and those of his household to walk in His way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to Abraham all that He has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the starts in the heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their heart by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his house hold to do that in accordance with spreading the Gospel, and because they did that.

In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him, and in Psalms 119:1-3, God's law was how the children of Abraham knew how to be blessed by walking in God's way, so the way that the children of Abraham are multiplied and are a blessing to the nations in accordance with inheriting the promise through faith is by teaching the nations to turn from their wickedness and to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to His law in accordance with spreading the Gospel.

The law is not the Way

There are many verses that describe God's law as being His instructions for how to walk in His way, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, 1 Kings 2:1-3, Joshua 22:5, Isaiah 2:2-3, Psalms 103:7, and many others.

If you're a doer of the law, you're not a doer of the word.

God's law is God's word, so your statement is contradictory.

 

[Kroogz]

Even if someone managed to have perfect obedience to God's law, then we still would not earn our justification as a wage (Romans 4:1-5), so that was never the goal of why we should obey it. In Romans 3:21-22, it does not say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through perfect obedience, but rather the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through Christ for all who believe. While only Jesus lived in perfect obedience to God's law, there are many examples of people who were doers of the law, such as those in Joshua 22:1-3, Luke 1:5-6, Revelation 14:12, and Revelation 22:14, so it is not the case that no one but Jesus is a doer of the law. People can still be justified even when they have not had perfect obedience to God's law, so it does not require perfect obedience.

Honestly, you should not be addressing me or turbo. We are not trying to be justified by the law.

 

[Mem]

God's law is God's word, so your statement is contradictory.

Your understanding of God's word is what is contradictory. You lead people to the law for justification and then tell them you don't have to keep it perfectly. You're blindly leading those that would listen to you into a ditch.

 

[Soyeong]

Paul is progressing through an argument in stages. At this point in his argument he is speaking about Jews under the law being justified before God. This statement is true of those trying to live under the mosaic law. It is not being applied here to those taking refuge under the new covenant.

The New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33), so there is not a different way of being justified under the New Covenant. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted God to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Romans 3:21-22, the only way to become justified that is testified about by the Law and the Prophets is through faith in Christ. The Mosaic Law is God's word and Christ is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory for someone to have faith in Christ, but not in the Mosaic Law, but rather the way to have faith in the one who is the embodiment of God's word is by us embodying God's word through following his example.

 

[Soyeong]

Your understanding of God's word is what is contradictory. You lead people to the law for justification and then tell them you don't have to keep it perfectly. You're blindly leading those that would listen to you into a ditch.

Even if someone managed to have perfect obedience to God's law, then they still wouldn't earn their justification as a wage, so that has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of why we should obey God's law. While Paul denied in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our justification as a wage, he also said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified, so clearly there must be a reason why our justification requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than in order to earn it as a wage, namely namely faith insofar as the same faith by which we are justified also upholds God's law (Romans 3:31).

 

[Kroogz]

Even if someone managed to have perfect obedience to God's law, then they still wouldn't earn their justification as a wage

It wouldn't be a wage. It would be perfection. And we could slide in right next to Christ on His throne.

Why do you add that little caveat "as a wage?"

 

[duewell]

And The Lord Jesus Christ is the only person who has ever done it. Not a soul in the past did it. Nor will anyone in the present or future do it.

matthew 16:24 romans 8:13 romans 12:1

it can happen to you, it can happen to me, it can happen to everyone eventually.

duewell
the rainbow connection

 

[turbosixx]

God is trustworthy, therefore His instructions are also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obediently trusting in His instructions and it is contradictory for someone to think that we should trust God, but should not trust His instructions. When someone does something in obedience to God, then the significance is not that it is part of something that they are required to have done first in order to earn their righteousness as the result, but rather the significance is that they are expressing in faith, and it is by that faith that we are declared righteous.

While the only way to become righteous is through faith apart from being required to have first done righteous works in order to earn it as a wage, becoming righteous through faith means becoming a doer of righteous works through faith, so it is contradictory to become righteous apart from becoming a doer of righteous works, which is why the faith by which we are declares righteous does not abolish our need to do righteous works in obedience to God's law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:28-31). In other words, becoming someone who will be declared righteous, someone who has faith, and someone who is a doer of the law all happen as the same time and anyone who lacks one also lacks the others, but are not declared righteous as the result of having first been a doer of the law, so it is the case that only doers of the law will be declared righteous.

I think I agree with you but not totally sure. When you talk about doer of the law, what law are you talking about and what law is Paul talking about?

 

[Mem]

Even if someone managed to have perfect obedience to God's law, then they still wouldn't earn their justification as a wage, so that has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of why we should obey God's law. While Paul denied in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our justification as a wage, he also said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified, so clearly there must be a reason why our justification requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than in order to earn it as a wage, namely namely faith insofar as the same faith by which we are justified also upholds God's law (Romans 3:31).

Can you reconcile Acts 13:39 with those scripture you've asserted mean what you say they mean.

Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

 

[Mem]

Acts 13:39

Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

and Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Is God's word.
You're either trying to be justified by the law, and have fallen from grace, or you are justified from everything through Him, and believe.

 

[Kroogz]

matthew 16:24 romans 8:13 romans 12:1

it can happen to you, it can happen to me, it can happen to everyone eventually.

duewell
the rainbow connection

It has happened to me. And it wasn't anything about me. John 3:16. Acts 16:31. 2 Cor 5:17.

It's always interesting, whenever the workers for salvation show up it's always:

Me.
I.
Myself.
We.
They.
Us.
I'm.....It's always about What the creature is or isn't doing. And not about what the Creator has done.

 

[uncle_mike]

I am a doer of The New Testament Law.

Could You list the New Testament Laws for me?