The Security Of The Believer

[Bible_Highlighter]

more correctly "if any man abideth not in Me he is cast forth as a branch.

The distinction is clear the man who abideth God takes away [takes home]
he that abideth not is cast forth.

The branch of itself can do nothing ... what does a branch do? if it simply abides it ought to bear fruit. It doesn't do anything. If it started working [if it were even possible] it would probably harm the vine

You are willfully finding ways to not see the obvious. John 15:2 says EVERY BRANCH IN ME THAT DOES NOT BEAR FRUIT.
When Jesus says He takes away this branch it is not to God’s Kingdom because verse 6 shows the end result or fate.
Jesus is explaining in John 14:6 the same branch. He does not abide in Him and because they are not bearing fruit, they are cast like a branch into the fire to be burned. Same branch.

So the sequence is this:

John 15:2 - every branch IN ME that does not bear fruit he takes away (Note: Nothing is said yet of their fate).
John 15:6 - every branch that does not abide in me - he is cast forth like a branch and thrown into the fire to be burned (This is the fate of that branch that was taken away) (Why was it taken away because it was refusing to bear fruit) (It was then cast off from the vine because it was not abiding in Christ, and then that branch was thrown into the fire to be burned).

Some in your camp have even tried to do back flip twist and say that the fire here in John 15:6 is the OSAS interpretation on 1 Corinthians 3 of one being saved through fire. But we know that the Parable of the Talents clearly also teaches that the unprofitable servant will be cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (a fate that will no doubt eventually lead to the Lake of Fire).

 

[Fundaamental]

You are willfully finding ways to not see the obvious. John 15:2 says EVERY BRANCH IN ME THAT DOES NOT BEAR FRUIT.
When Jesus says He takes away this branch it is not to God’s Kingdom because verse 6 shows the end result or fate.
Jesus is explaining in John 14:6 the same branch. He does not abide in Him and because they are not bearing fruit, they are cast like a branch into the fire to be burned. Same branch.

So the sequence is this:

John 15:2 - every branch IN ME that does not bear fruit he takes away (Note: Nothing is said yet of their fate).
John 15:6 - every branch that does not abide in me - he is cast forth like a branch and thrown into the fire to be burned (This is the fate of that branch that was taken away) (Why was it taken away because it was refusing to bear fruit) (It was then cast off from the vine because it was not abiding in Christ, and then that branch was thrown into the fire to be burned).

Some in your camp have even tried to do back flip twist and say that the fire here in John 15:6 is the OSAS interpretation on 1 Corinthians 3 of one being saved through fire. But we know that the Parable of the Talents clearly also teaches that the unprofitable servant will be cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (a fate that will no doubt eventually lead to the Lake of Fire).

wrong every branch that has believed and been saved will more than likely abide in him because they hear is voice and they follow.

If however some may not does that mean all will not.
Or would you have us believe all will not.

And those who do not abide in him there will be punishment in earth.

Or would you have us believe saved people who dont abide should be cast forth in the fire before being tried in fire

 

[Fundaamental]

wrong every branch that has believed and been saved will more than likely abide in him because they hear is voice and they follow.

If however some may not does that mean all will not.
Or would you have us believe all will not.

And those who do not abide in him there will be punishment in earth.

Or would you have us believe saved people who dont abide should be cast forth in the fire before being tried in fire

reminds me of a song 🙂

Oh yeah we dance

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

wrong I believe I will never commit a sin worthy enough of being sent to a long lasting place of punishment.

I also believe in eternal security because my faith is strong in believing in the lords word.

I also believe your using the word they far to much, which is how the false accuser operates🙂

So no lying, no coveting, no looking upon a woman in lust, no hating your brother?
Why would Jesus and the apostles warn us of these sins if they were not possible to commit by believers?
Do you help the poor? Do you help your brother in need? Do you love the things in this world? Again, these are salvific issues in the Bible. If you slipped up even once in these things, then you need to confess and forsake them in order to have mercy according to Proverbs 28:13. Meaning, salvation is conditional. I mean, just read 1 John 1:9. John tells the brethren to “sin not” (1 John 2:1), and so obviously sin is possible in the life of the believer otherwise he would not have to tell them to “sin not.” But that is why we are to confess sin in order to be forgiven of sin (1 John 1:9) and walk in the light in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse you from all sin (1 John 1:7). Walking in the light = Loving your brother according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11. So you have to love your brother in order to have the blood of Jesus to cleanse you from all sin. It says IF we walk in the light as He is in the light. He is talking to believers. Meaning the IF is conditional to believers. Not all believers are going to walk in the light automatically. God does not force us against His will to be a certain way.

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).​

​

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).​

​

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

But let’s say you lived like a saint. Most others do not believe as you do in living like a perfect saint who does not commit sins worthy of death. They justify sin and believe they are saved. Do you not rebuke their wrong belief? It would be like being a German soldier who stands by as the Jews are being killed. One may not murder them, but if they stand by and doing nothing as they are being murdered. That’s the problem in OSAS. If you stand by and let other OSAS believers justify sin, then you are a party to their evil. You should be attacking those who believe in Eternal Security because 99.9% of them I have ran into have said they can sin and be saved. Meaning, one Christian even told me that if a believer looks upon a woman in lust and they got hit by a bus they are saved. Meaning, they did not have to confess of their sin to be forgiven of sin as 1 John 1:9 says. They say believers who commit suicide are saved, etcetera. The list of justification of evil goes on and on. Do you rebuke other OSAS believers for using 1 John 1:8 as a license to sin?

I mean, lets say again you lived like a saint without fault before God, if you tell others that all you have to do is to believe on the finished work of the cross for salvation and nothing else, and there are children in the room and you say nothing more and you never see them again, then you have a problem. A child can easily take this to mean they have a license to sin just by believing on Jesus. Believing in Jesus + nothing could include one to think that “nothing” can mean they can live in sin. They could turn out to be the next George Sodini or those who are like him in his church. See here, and here to learn more about George Sodini.

 

[Fundaamental]

So no lying, no coveting, no looking upon a woman in lust, no hating your brother?
Why would Jesus and the apostles warn us of these sins if they were not possible to commit by believers?
Do you help the poor? Do you help your brother in need? Do you love the things in this world? Again, these are salvific issues in the Bible. If you slipped up even once in these things, then you need to confess and forsake them in order to have mercy according to Proverbs 28:13. Meaning, salvation is conditional. I mean, just read 1 John 1:9. John tells the brethren to “sin not” (1 John 2:1), and so obviously sin is possible in the life of the believer otherwise he would not have to tell them to “sin not.” But that is why we are to confess sin in order to be forgiven of sin (1 John 1:9) and walk in the light in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse you from all sin (1 John 1:7). Walking in the light = Loving your brother according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11. So you have to love your brother in order to have the blood of Jesus to cleanse you from all sin. It says IF we walk in the light as He is in the light. He is talking to believers. Meaning the IF is conditional to believers. Not all believers are going to walk in the light automatically. God does not force us against His will to be a certain way.

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).​

​

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).​

​

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

But let’s say you lived like a saint. Most others do not believe as you do in living like a perfect saint who does not commit sins worthy of death. They justify sin and believe they are saved. Do you not rebuke their wrong belief? It would be like being a German soldier who stands by as the Jews are being killed. One may not murder them, but if they stand by and doing nothing as they are being murdered. That’s the problem in OSAS. If you stand by and let other OSAS believers justify sin, then you are a party to their evil. You should be attacking those who believe in Eternal Security because 99.9% of them I have ran into have said they can sin and be saved. Meaning, one Christian even told me that if a believer looks upon a woman in lust and they got hit by a bus they are saved. Meaning, they did not have to confess of their sin to be forgiven of sin as 1 John 1:9 says. They say believers who commit suicide are saved, etcetera. The list of justification of evil goes on and on. Do you rebuke other OSAS believers for using 1 John 1:8 as a license to sin?

I mean, lets say again you lived like a saint without fault before God, if you tell others that all you have to do is to believe on the finished work of the cross for salvation and nothing else, and there are children in the room and you say nothing more and you never see them again, then you have a problem. A child can easily take this to mean they have a license to sin just by believing on Jesus. Believing in Jesus + nothing could include one to think that nothing can mean they can live in sin. They could turn out to be the next George Sodini or those who are like him in his church. See here, and here to learn more about George Sodini.

still you won't believe, well that's your choice.

I wonder tho if the holy spirit has convicted you yet for associating Christians who believe in eternal security to Adolff Hitler, because all you did after being pulled up about it was scoff and joke about it,

You still have yet to set that record straight.

So who is convicting you ?

Because in my eyes, conviction to scoff don't come from the holy spirit.

 

[Mem]

the Highlighter Bible is a pieced together version that, although having copious material to offer, leaves out many parts of the Bible.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

wrong every branch that has believed and been saved will more than likely abide in him because they hear is voice and they follow.

If however some may not does that mean all will not.
Or would you have us believe all will not.

And those who do not abide in him there will be punishment in earth.

Or would you have us believe saved people who dont abide should be cast forth in the fire before being tried in fire

Ah, the cat’s out of the bag. So you believe they are not punished in being cast into outer darkness or fire (i.e., the Lake of Fire) for their sin of being unfruitful for the Lord as the Bible describes it. They get a second chance? So this means one can sin and be saved. That is what you are teaching and backing if I am understanding you correctly here. But the Scriptures say it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the Judgment (Hebrews 9:27).

Backing John 15:6 is the Parable of the Talents in Matthew 25:14-30, the Parable of the Minas in Luke 19:11-27, Matthew 7:26-27 (cf. Ephesians 2:10), and Titus 1:16. There is nowhere in Scripture that describes the fanciful OSAS interpretations in trying to explain away John 15:6.

 

[Evmur]

You are willfully finding ways to not see the obvious. John 15:2 says EVERY BRANCH IN ME THAT DOES NOT BEAR FRUIT.
When Jesus says He takes away this branch it is not to God’s Kingdom because verse 6 shows the end result or fate.
Jesus is explaining in John 14:6 the same branch. He does not abide in Him and because they are not bearing fruit, they are cast like a branch into the fire to be burned. Same branch.

So the sequence is this:

John 15:2 - every branch IN ME that does not bear fruit he takes away (Note: Nothing is said yet of their fate).
John 15:6 - every branch that does not abide in me - he is cast forth like a branch and thrown into the fire to be burned (This is the fate of that branch that was taken away) (Why was it taken away because it was refusing to bear fruit) (It was then cast off from the vine because it was not abiding in Christ, and then that branch was thrown into the fire to be burned).

Some in your camp have even tried to do back flip twist and say that the fire here in John 15:6 is the OSAS interpretation on 1 Corinthians 3 of one being saved through fire. But we know that the Parable of the Talents clearly also teaches that the unprofitable servant will be cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (a fate that will no doubt eventually lead to the Lake of Fire).

you are wrong the fate of both is given

The one who is abiding in Christ is taken away by God
the one not abiding in Christ is cast forth

You are adding your own ideas to what God says ... stop doing that

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

still you won't believe, well that's your choice.

I wonder tho if the holy spirit has convicted you yet for associating Christians who believe in eternal security to Adolff Hitler, because all you did after being pulled up about it was scoff and joke about it,

But what if by some small stray chance OSAS is false, and you are wrong? What if OSAS is a justification of evil that God really hates? Well, I believe according to the Bible it is this way. False teaching that leads people into sin should be mocked. Meaning, most in the OSAS camp believe they can ignore God’s words in obeying Him and yet they are cool or okay with God. But listen to the words of the LORD.

Proverbs 1:23-26 says,

23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.​

24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;​

25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:​

26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;​

Think. God is saying no man regarded. This means most of Christianity is not really taking heed to God’s words.
They could care less. They have their man made doctrine that allows them to sin and be saved.

You still have yet to set that record straight.

So who is convicting you ?

Because in my eyes, conviction to scoff don't come from the holy spirit.

Even Jesus attacked the Pharisees and their false beliefs with harsh words.
Jesus said they were white washed tombs.
Generally tombs are dirty. But the irony or joke is that they appear to be clean on the outside. A tomb that is clean? How weird? They appear to be clean in appearance outwardly but inwardly they are wicked. Much like today in the world of believers.

Psalms 37

12 “The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.​

13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.”​

​

So the wicked gnash their teeth at the just. Meaning, there are people in the world who verbally attack certain believers who seek to be just by obeying God. But the Lord shall laugh at the one who gnashes his teeth at this just believer. Their day is coming.

Isaiah 26:10 (NKJV)
”Let grace be shown to the wicked, Yet he will not learn righteousness; In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly, And will not behold the majesty of the LORD.”

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

you are wrong the fate of both is given

The one who is abiding in Christ is taken away by God
the one not abiding in Christ is cast forth

You are adding your own ideas to what God says ... stop doing that

Not at all.

Backing John 15:6 is the Parable of the Talents in Matthew 25:14-30, the Parable of the Minas in Luke 19:11-27, Matthew 7:26-27 (cf. Ephesians 2:10), and Titus 1:16. There is nowhere in Scripture that describes the fanciful OSAS interpretations in trying to explain away John 15:6. The whole counsel of God’s Word refutes you.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Titus 2:11-12

11 “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,​

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;”​

​

God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world. But in the world of OSAS, God’s grace does not teach this. It teaches the Jude 1:4 version of grace. Jude 1:4 warns against those who turn God’s grace into a license for immorality or lasciviousness.

 

[Fundaamental]

But what if by some small stray chance OSAS is false, and you are wrong? What if OSAS is a justification of evil that God really hates? Well, I believe according to the Bible it is this way. False teaching that leads people into sin should be mocked. Meaning, most in the OSAS camp believe they can ignore God’s words in obeying Him and yet they are cool or okay with God. But listen to the words of the LORD.

Proverbs 1:23-26 says,

23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.​

24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;​

25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:​

26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;​

Think. God is saying no man regarded. This means most of Christianity is not really taking heed to God’s words.
They could care less. They have their man made doctrine that allows them to sin and be saved.



Even Jesus attacked the Pharisees and their false beliefs with harsh words.
Jesus said they were white washed tombs.
Generally tombs are dirty. But the irony or joke is that they appear to be clean on the outside. A tomb that is clean? How weird? They appear to be clean in appearance outwardly but inwardly they are wicked. Much like today in the world of believers.

Psalms 37

12 “The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.​

13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.”​

​

So the wicked gnash their teeth at the just. Meaning, there are people in the world who verbally attack certain believers who seek to be just by obeying God. But the Lord shall laugh at the one who gnashes his teeth at this just believer. Their day is coming.

Isaiah 26:10 (NKJV)
”Let grace be shown to the wicked, Yet he will not learn righteousness; In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly, And will not behold the majesty of the LORD.”

I don't argu with a sentence called Osas,

I can't help you my faith grew wise to the adversary,.

I can see the adversary is working well to get you to convince me to engage in debate about a single sentence,

But I know the adversary all to well on behalf of the wisdom of the holy spirit.



I believe in the sentence eternal security.

I may have doubted my own salvation in my early stages but it was never a full doubt it was merely a worry I could never take my salvation for granted.

What may have happened to me once upon a time was I may of got involved in debate with one single person out of oh ten thousand Christians who miss used his wisdom and pulled many into the slander with him.

It occured to me that the already judged will always pull you into the pit with them because there conviction comes from the already judged 🙂☕👍

 

[Jimbone]

I can't believe Christians are agreeing and liking this video.

Let's look at the verse this person in the video says is conditional

27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. [29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


Ok this verse has got to be one of the nicest verses in the bible.

How can anyone say that it's conditional that the sheep follow the shepherd ?


Or how can anyone use this verse to reason Osas is a false doctrine because of this verse ?


Is there Ann chance the sheep follow for any other reason than being conditional ?.

This is a sad day in Christianity for me 😞

What's even worse is they believe and claim the ability to meet these said conditions is by their own power. That Jesus saves us and then crosses His fingers in hope that we "be good", and then if they are good enough to reach heaven they can now take the glory for making it for themselves, they obeyed well enough right? They can now boast just like His word tells us we will be able to. Right? Isn't that right? Being saved is 100% all God, but sanctification is 100% by mans will, is exactly what they are teaching. It's just wrong.

 

[Cameron143]

What's even worse is they believe and claim the ability to meet these said conditions is by their own power. That Jesus saves us and then crosses His fingers in hope that we "be good", and then if they are good enough to reach heaven they can now take the glory for making it for themselves, they obeyed well enough right? They can now boast just like His word tells us we will be able to. Right? Isn't that right? Being saved is 100% all God, but sanctification is 100% by mans will, is exactly what they are teaching. It's just wrong.

I'm still waiting for someone to show me the process of being unborn again.

 

[wattie]

Comes down to the fundamental doctrine of atonement and what Jesus accomplished. If you can lose your salvation.. that has been messed with. And like Jimbone says.. it makes salvation from YOU, rather than Jesus.. and that's really off.

 

[Cameron143]

What's even worse is they believe and claim the ability to meet these said conditions is by their own power. That Jesus saves us and then crosses His fingers in hope that we "be good", and then if they are good enough to reach heaven they can now take the glory for making it for themselves, they obeyed well enough right? They can now boast just like His word tells us we will be able to. Right? Isn't that right? Being saved is 100% all God, but sanctification is 100% by mans will, is exactly what they are teaching. It's just wrong.

That would mean we would have to change Hebrews 12:2 from author and finisher of our faith to author of our faith.

 

[Kroogz]

Titus 2:11-12

11 “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,​

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;”​

​

God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world. But in the world of OSAS, God’s grace does not teach this. It teaches the Jude 1:4 version of grace. Jude 1:4 warns against those who turn God’s grace into a license for immorality or lasciviousness.

IMO, Your way to salvation is so confusing and has so many variables attached to it that I can't come to a conclusion.

If you have the key to salvation. Can you give me the specific details on how I can be saved?And please give me the specific's, if you truly hold the key to salvation.

How much following?
How much abiding?
How many works?
How many fruits?
How many sins are acceptable?
How much of my life has to be cleaned up?

And I know you have more variables, from what I have read from your posts. Explain these in detail also please.

I want the details of the key to salvation please.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Some people certainly are overconfident of their own righteousness and seem to view themselves as "holier than thou" while looking down on and others and judging them.

Greetings to you Dan in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
It has been a while since we have last crossed swords (i.e., the battle we fight in using God’s Holy Word).
I hope you are doing well and may all manner of good things from Jesus Christ be upon you and your family (even if we strongly disagree on this topic).

In any event, to get down to the business at hand:

Well, I am not looking to throw down any hammer of judgment on anyone specifically alone. Meaning, I don’t’ set out to attack people and make it solely about them alone without it not relating to the argument or belief. I also strive not to make this my usual order of business, either. That’s not my game plan or how my mind works. I seek to love everyone, even my enemies (Granted, people have a funny idea about what they think love is according to the Bible). Anyway, my ultimate goal is to attack the wrong belief here and not the solely the individual. Granted, while one OSAS believer here claimed to not commit sins that are worthy of death, I had to challenge them on their belief. It was not so much about them personally really. I would prefer that they not tell me anything personal about their life at all. My goal was to show the inconsistencies in their own argument or belief in light of God’s Word. I never set out to make it personal unless somebody boasts about their conduct in light of their belief that is incorrect or immoral. I get no drug rush or satisfaction in trying to uplift myself over another. I am nothing. Christ is everything. We are dealing ultimately here with what we believe is the biblical belief here. Is salvation conditional or unconditional? That is the argument and where it should be primarily. This debate does not rest solely on any one believer and their life. We should say, ”For what saith the scripture?” as Romans 4:3 says. Yes, yes. I know. Romans 4:3-5 is dealing with what you believe refutes my belief. But from my perspective and understanding on Scripture this is clearly dealing with Initial Salvation and not the Secondary Aspect of Salvation (The second washing - Leviticus 13:58).

“Holier than thou” is an interesting phrase from the Word of God. There are actually 200 plus idiomatic phrases like this that were popularized by the King James Bible. I have been doing a study on these phrases found in the KJB, and it is quite eye opening to say the least.

In any case, Isaiah 65:5 has this phrase “Holier than thou” which is an idiom used today by even unbelievers.
But what is interesting is that this phrase was not said in context to a person who is seeking to obey God’s commands. In context, it was said of those who worshiped false idols and who broke the dietary laws of God. Okay. So now that we understand the context of Isaiah 65:5 and how it was used, you should understand that am not here advocating disobedience to God. However, I believe the OSAS position is for doing just that, though. They believe they can sin and still be saved all because they have a belief on Jesus as their Savior.

Titus 2:11-12 says God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.
But in the OSAS belief, it turns God’s grace into a license for immorality or lasciviousness (Jude 1:4).
Isaiah 26:10 (NKJV) “Let grace be shown to the wicked, Yet he will not learn righteousness; In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly, And will not behold the majesty of the LORD.”

We also see this in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector. (Luke 18:9-14)

I 100% agree with Luke 18:9-14. It is a poignant and powerful parable on warning us believers of the dangers of self righteousness and denying God’s grace or allowing His grace to shine.

There are some believers out there who would fit this description. For example: Adam at “Abide in the Word YouTube Channel“ would fit the description of this belief if I am understanding his belief correctly (From the few videos I have seen from him). if I am correct on understanding his belief, it appears like he does not believe like I do in the fact that we are initially saved by God’s grace through faith without works. So we are saved by a belief alone, but is only when we are initially saved. God’s grace (and not works) is also foundational to our salvation because if we slip up into a sin on rare occasion, we do not go out to do a good work to absolve that sin. But we can confess of our sins to the Lord Jesus Christ to be forgiven of sin according to 1 John 1:9, and 1 John 2:1. Let us boldly come to the throne of grace indeed. But the Pharisee made it all about Works and no grace whatsoever. He thought he was better than the one who was saved by God’s grace. But keep in mind this grace has to align with the grace in Titus 2:11-12, and not the false version of grace as shown in Jude 1:4.

The Pharisee also needed to learn the lesson that he is nothing and it was God who ultimately does the good work in Him and that without God He could do nothing. All praise should go to the Lord for any good done in his life. God is the One who makes us truly stand or fall. It is not solely our strength and power, but it is the Lord’s strength and power to do what is good and right.

But nowhere is this parable a defense for OSAS which leads men to think they can sin and still be saved. Yes, men can be in sin. When we first came to the Lord, our old life was one of sin. Yes, believers can stumble into sin on rare occasion, but they can go to God’s grace By confessing their sins and forsaking them and not say, I am saved even if I don’t confess or forsake these sins. I am already saved despite my being in sin. That’s not what the Parable is teaching. We see the Tax Collector seeking forgiveness of his sin with the Lord and not justifying that sin.

Yet we see that the tax collector went down to his house justified rather than the Pharisee; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6).
No doubt about it.
But we must also understand that one can be proud by not agreeing with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, though.

1 Timothy 6:3-4
”If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,…”

I hope this helps, and may you be well.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

A mere bible highlighter.
And may Jesus get all the glory.

 

[Cameron143]

Greetings to you Dan in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
It has been a while since we have last crossed swords (i.e., the battle we fight in using God’s Holy Word).
I hope you are doing well and may all manner of good things from Jesus Christ be upon you and your family (even if we strongly disagree on this topic).

In any event, to get down to the business at hand:

Well, I am not looking to throw down any hammer of judgment on anyone specifically alone. Meaning, I don’t’ set out to attack people and make it solely about them alone without it not relating to the argument or belief. I also strive not to make this my usual order of business, either. That’s not my game plan or how my mind works. I seek to love everyone, even my enemies (Granted, people have a funny idea about what they think love is according to the Bible). Anyway, my ultimate goal is to attack the wrong belief here and not the solely the individual. Granted, while one OSAS believer here claimed to not commit sins that are worthy of death, I had to challenge them on their belief. It was not so much about them personally really. I would prefer that they not tell me anything personal about their life at all. My goal was to show the inconsistencies in their own argument or belief in light of God’s Word. I never set out to make it personal unless somebody boasts about their conduct in light of their belief that is incorrect or immoral. I get no drug rush or satisfaction in trying to uplift myself over another. I am nothing. Christ is everything. We are dealing ultimately here with what we believe is the biblical belief here. Is salvation conditional or unconditional? That is the argument and where it should be primarily. This debate does not rest solely on any one believer and their life. We should say, ”For what saith the scripture?” as Romans 4:3 says. Yes, yes. I know. Romans 4:3-5 is dealing with what you believe refutes my belief. But from my perspective and understanding on Scripture this is clearly dealing with Initial Salvation and not the Secondary Aspect of Salvation (The second washing - Leviticus 13:58).

“Holier than thou” is an interesting phrase from the Word of God. There are actually 200 plus idiomatic phrases like this that were popularized by the King James Bible. I have been doing a study on these phrases found in the KJB, and it is quite eye opening to say the least.

In any case, Isaiah 65:5 has this phrase “Holier than thou” which is an idiom used today by even unbelievers.
But what is interesting is that this phrase was not said in context to a person who is seeking to obey God’s commands. In context, it was said of those who worshiped false idols and who broke the dietary laws of God. Okay. So now that we understand the context of Isaiah 65:5 and how it was used, you should understand that am not here advocating disobedience to God. However, I believe the OSAS position is for doing just that, though. They believe they can sin and still be saved all because they have a belief on Jesus as their Savior.

Titus 2:11-12 says God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.
But in the OSAS belief, it turns God’s grace into a license for immorality or lasciviousness (Jude 1:4).
Isaiah 26:10 (NKJV) “Let grace be shown to the wicked, Yet he will not learn righteousness; In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly, And will not behold the majesty of the LORD.”



I 100% agree with Luke 18:9-14. It is a poignant and powerful parable on warning us believers of the dangers of self righteousness and denying God’s grace or allowing His grace to shine.

There are some believers out there who would fit this description. For example: Adam at “Abide in the Word YouTube Channel“ would fit the description of this belief if I am understanding his belief correctly (From the few videos I have seen from him). if I am correct on understanding his belief, it appears like he does not believe like I do in the fact that we are initially saved by God’s grace through faith without works. So we are saved by a belief alone, but is only when we are initially saved. God’s grace (and not works) is also foundational to our salvation because if we slip up into a sin on rare occasion, we do not go out to do a good work to absolve that sin. But we can confess of our sins to the Lord Jesus Christ to be forgiven of sin according to 1 John 1:9, and 1 John 2:1. Let us boldly come to the throne of grace indeed. But the Pharisee made it all about Works and no grace whatsoever. He thought he was better than the one who was saved by God’s grace. But keep in mind this grace has to align with the grace in Titus 2:11-12, and not the false version of grace as shown in Jude 1:4.

The Pharisee also needed to learn the lesson that he is nothing and it was God who ultimately does the good work in Him and that without God He could do nothing. All praise should go to the Lord for any good done in his life. God is the One who makes us truly stand or fall. It is not solely our strength and power, but it is the Lord’s strength and power to do what is good and right.

But nowhere is this parable a defense for OSAS which leads men to think they can sin and still be saved. Yes, men can be in sin. When we first came to the Lord, our old life was one of sin. Yes, believers can stumble into sin on rare occasion, but they can go to God’s grace By confessing their sins and forsaking them and not say, I am saved even if I don’t confess or forsake these sins. I am already saved despite my being in sin. That’s not what the Parable is teaching. We see the Tax Collector seeking forgiveness of his sin with the Lord and not justifying that sin.



God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6).
No doubt about it.
But we must also understand that one can be proud by not agreeing with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, though.

1 Timothy 6:3-4
”If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,…”

I hope this helps, and may you be well.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

A mere bible highlighter.
And may Jesus get all the glory.

The root of misunderstanding you have concerning OSAS is that you won't listen to what people are telling you. You believe those who believe OSAS believe we have a license to sin. We do not. What we believe is that those who participate in sinful lifestyles void of repentance are not and never were saved. Those who have been saved still sin, but will not be drawn into sinful lifestyles because of the convicting and chastening work of the indwelling Spirit.
This doesn't mean there aren't some who teach that regardless of sin and lifestyle a believer goes to heaven. This doesn't make OSAS wrong; simply there understanding of it. And the OSAS crowd here would point out this error because it can cause unbelievers to die in their sins.
But what you teach is equally as dangerous. You have people believing that once they are saved, they must do work to remain saved. That would mean that we are now responsible to keep the very law to maintain salvation that we couldn't keep to acquire salvation in the first place. This harms both believers and nonbelievers: the believer because they are never trained to walk in the Spirit, and the non-believer because their confidence and faith is not actually in Christ, but their own endeavor.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

IMO, Your way to salvation is so confusing and has so many variables attached to it that I can't come to a conclusion.

If you have the key to salvation. Can you give me the specific details on how I can be saved?And please give me the specific's, if you truly hold the key to salvation.

How much following?
How much abiding?
How many works?
How many fruits?
How many sins are acceptable?
How much of my life has to be cleaned up?

And I know you have more variables, from what I have read from your posts. Explain these in detail also please.

I want the details of the key to salvation please.

Our example is Jesus Christ (1 John 2:6) (Romans 8:29) (Philippians 2:5, Philippians 2:7-8).