The Security Of The Believer

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Yes, Vlad teams up with Dr. Michael Brown in some videos. Michael Brown is a notorious Charismatic. Dr. Brown was a part of the Brownsville revival, which had some very questionable things going on there.

https://midwestoutreach.org/2015/10/04/an-examination-and-evaluation-of-the-brownsville-revival/

I am not Pentecostal or Charismatic. While I am not going to put God in a box, the Scriptures and history bear witness to the fact that the miraculous sign gifts have most likely ceased. Note: This does not mean we cannot pray and God can do a miracle. God can and does miracles. I am talking about the sign gifts. A sign gift would be a person healing 100% of the time because God gave them that gift. Tongues is a sign gift. However, most who speak in tongues today do so in an unbiblical way. One is supposed to have an interpreter present if they speak in tongues (according to 1 Corinthians 14). Then Paul says that what he writes are the commandments of the Lord shortly after he says this. So if a person is speaking in tongues without an interpreter, they are in disobedience to God. At least that is how I see it. Granted, does that mean they are not saved? The Bible has not revealed that to me yet. But it is very serious to disobey God’s Word. There are many commands in the Bible that if we disobey them, they will condemn our soul in the afterlife. So I would not take any chances in playing around with speaking in tongues without interpreter like many Pentecostals and Charismatics do.

Yeah, I used to be part of Assemblies of God, but the ones I belonged to were very disciplined about speaking in tongues - they never allowed it to be abused and they don't let the congregation get crazy where people are running around, etc. like in some other Pentecostal churches. And they didn't believe that every Christian should have that ability too.

I think if a Christian is being disobedient but is teachable and learns from God's correction, then they should be okay. God gives us time to do that and He knows who learns or not.


🍰

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Luke didn't list the Fruit of the Spirit. Galatians does. If you don't like the list, just say it's wrong instead of changing the subject.

The Holy Spirit was not yet given until after Jesus’ resurrection. Jesus says in John 15 that without Him, we can do nothing. Jesus says that the person who abides in Him, the same will bring forth much fruit.

John 15:5
He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Jesus said I will send you another Comforter. This was the Holy Spirit.
So Jesus was the One who does good works (fruit) in the believer’s life in John 15.
Granted, I believe that all three persons of the Trinity work in the believer today.
But that is another topic that Christians can debate about at another time and place.

 

[NightTwister]

The Holy Spirit was not yet given until after Jesus’ resurrection. Jesus says in John 15 that without Him, we can do nothing. Jesus says that the person who abides in Him, the same will bring forth much fruit.

John 15:5
He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Jesus said I will send you another Comforter. This was the Holy Spirit.
So Jesus was the One who does good works (fruit) in the believer’s life in John 15.
Granted, I believe that all three persons of the Trinity work in the believer today.
But that is another topic that Christians can debate about at another time and place.

If only there were a place in the Bible where there was a definition of what that fruit is...

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Yeah, I used to be part of Assemblies of God, but the ones I belonged to were very disciplined about speaking in tongues - they never allowed it to be abused and they don't let the congregation get crazy where people are running around, etc. like in some other Pentecostal churches. And they didn't believe that every Christian should have that ability too.

I think if a Christian is being disobedient but is teachable and learns from God's correction, then they should be okay. God gives us time to do that and He knows who learns or not.


🍰

As long as they have an interpreter present, it is going in a better direction biblically. But I do see many verses strongly suggesting that the miraculous sign gifts (not gifts in general) have most likely ceased. So I personally could not attend a church that had tongues speaking taking place. But again, I am not overly dogmatic on it because I do not want to speak against those who may be operating by God just in case I am wrong. If they are speaking in tongues without an interpreter, then I have biblical grounds to say they are in the wrong for sure. 1 Corinthians 14 makes this very clear if a person reads it several times a year and prays about it and sees what other believers have to say on it.

But yes. I agree that Christians who are in the wrong and are teachable can learn and grow and mature for sure. I used to like secular Hollywood movies as a Christian. Marvel comics films, James Bond, Star Trek, etcetera were my favorites. But I have put these things away because God was talking to me by His Word on these things (Seeing these things pushed sinful things upon me).

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

If only there were a place in the Bible where there was a definition of what that fruit is...

John the Baptist gave you the definition in Luke 3. We don’t just tear that part out of the Bible just because we don’t like what it says.

 

[NightTwister]

John the Baptist gave you the definition in Luke 3. We don’t just tear that part out of the Bible just because we don’t like what it says.

Yet, that's EXACTLY what you did.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Yet, that's EXACTLY what you did.

I got another point for you to make it unmistakable. John the baptist said bring forth fruits worthy of repentance, and the people asked him what shall they do and he told them a good work like give your coat to another. This giving a coat to another who needs it is obviously a good work. But there is even more confirmation on this. In the other gospel, Matthew 3 in the KJV, it says meet for repentance instead of saying “worthy” of repentance. But it is saying the same thing. Meaning, bring forth fruits worthy or befitting of repentance.

Now, I am going to drop the Scriptural bomb to make it even more clearer for you (hopefully).

Matthew 3:8 (KJV) says,
”Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:”

Now….

Acts 26:20 (KJV) says,
”But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.”

Acts 26:20 (NKJV) says,
”but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.”

They are saying the same thing!

 

[wattie]

Yes, Vlad teams up with Dr. Michael Brown in some videos. Michael Brown is a notorious Charismatic. Dr. Brown was a part of the Brownsville revival, which had some very questionable things going on there.

https://midwestoutreach.org/2015/10/04/an-examination-and-evaluation-of-the-brownsville-revival/

I am not Pentecostal or Charismatic. While I am not going to put God in a box, the Scriptures and history bear witness to the fact that the miraculous sign gifts have most likely ceased. Note: This does not mean we cannot pray and God can do a miracle. God can and does miracles. I am talking about the sign gifts. A sign gift would be a person healing 100% of the time because God gave them that gift. Tongues is a sign gift. However, most who speak in tongues today do so in an unbiblical way. One is supposed to have an interpreter present if they speak in tongues (according to 1 Corinthians 14). Then Paul says that what he writes are the commandments of the Lord shortly after he says this. So if a person is speaking in tongues without an interpreter, they are in disobedience to God. At least that is how I see it. Granted, does that mean they are not saved? The Bible has not revealed that to me yet. But it is very serious to disobey God’s Word. There are many commands in the Bible that if we disobey them, they will condemn our soul in the afterlife. So I would not take any chances in playing around with speaking in tongues without interpreter like many Pentecostals and Charismatics do.

Ah something we can agree on! I'm also non Charismatic or Pentecostal

I was a charismatic Methodist in my youth but then in my 20s started getting into scripture alot more deeply and was convinced the sign gifts were for a time that is passed.

I also view ministry gifts as having passed ..but don't have a big problem with people into them, because it's not a big difference in being talented in a ministry.

What most people say is ..look at paul writing to people to pursue the sign gifts ..

But that is not taking into account the 2000 odd years since the time of writing that affects the operation of the sign gifts.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Ah something we can agree on! I'm also non Charismatic or Pentecostal

I was a charismatic Methodist in my youth but then in my 20s started getting into scripture alot more deeply and was convinced the sign gifts were for a time that is passed.

I also view ministry gifts as having passed ..but don't have a big problem with people into them, because it's not a big difference in being talented in a ministry.

What most people say is ..look at paul writing to people to pursue the sign gifts ..

But that is not taking into account the 2000 odd years since the time of writing that affects the operation of the sign gifts.

There is a lot of dangers in the current popular Pentecostal and Charismatic movements. Even the origins of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movement is shrouded in a lot of bad things happening that are clearly unbiblical. But I do leave some room for mystery on the topic although I do not prefer to engage myself in these gifts just in the event or chance that they could potentially have ended or ceased. I prefer to play it safe.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Not ignored. But it does cause concern. You have shown that you believe, in spite of the ongoing work of God, that you must maintain your salvation. You have said on the front end it is all of God, and on the back end it is of us. Truth is, it's all of God.
You use a sophisticated argument, but in essence have just backended salvation with works.

So how would you understand Galatians 6:8-9?
How about 1 Timothy 5:8?
What about John 15:6?
Please give me a word for word commentary on these verses.

Side Note:

Please keep in mind that Jesus says in John 15:2 that every branch IN ME that bears not fruit.
IN ME. They are IN THE VINE and they are not bearing fruit.
So how would you explain this one away?

 

[NightTwister]

I got another point for you to make it unmistakable. John the baptist said bring forth fruits worthy of repentance, and the people asked him what shall they do and he told them a good work like give your coat to another. This giving a coat to another who needs it is obviously a good work. But there is even more confirmation on this. In the other gospel, Matthew 3 in the KJV, it says meet for repentance instead of saying “worthy” of repentance. But it is saying the same thing. Meaning, bring forth fruits worthy or befitting of repentance.

Now, I am going to drop the Scriptural bomb to make it even more clearer for you (hopefully).

Matthew 3:8 (KJV) says,
”Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:”

Now….

Acts 26:20 (KJV) says,
”But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.”

Acts 26:20 (NKJV) says,
”but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.”

They are saying the same thing!

You'll do anything except explain why the Fruit of the Spirit in Galatians isn't fruit.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Here is a video I think folks should watch.
It uses verses and also explains OSAS and the problem of it.

It is approximately 4 minutes.
So it is not long.

 

[Cameron143]

I got another point for you to make it unmistakable. John the baptist said bring forth fruits worthy of repentance, and the people asked him what shall they do and he told them a good work like give your coat to another. This giving a coat to another who needs it is obviously a good work. But there is even more confirmation on this. In the other gospel, Matthew 3 in the KJV, it says meet for repentance instead of saying “worthy” of repentance. But it is saying the same thing. Meaning, bring forth fruits worthy or befitting of repentance.

Now, I am going to drop the Scriptural bomb to make it even more clearer for you (hopefully).

Matthew 3:8 (KJV) says,
”Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:”

Now….

Acts 26:20 (KJV) says,
”But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.”

Acts 26:20 (NKJV) says,
”but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.”

They are saying the same thing!

John is making a public mockery of the religious leaders. He has been baptizing those who were truly sorrowful over their sins and were repenting. The Godly sorrow was the fruit produced by the Spirit. The repentance was evidence of that work. The religious leaders did not come in this manner. They came with the attitude that they were ok because they were Jews and Abraham is their father. But if Abraham truly was their father, they would have been repentant...they would have manifested the work of the Spirit in them.
Galatians 5:22-23 are important verses because they reveal that spiritual fruit is the work of the the Spirit. The Spirit alone can produce it. Christians are to bear fruit. And only Christians can bear fruit.
The Pharisees weren't bearing fruit because they didn't have the Spirit working in them. John knew. How? They weren't bearing fruit. Spiritual people recognize fruit.

 

[Fundaamental]

I think OSAS believers only tend to be believe some verses in the Bible and ignore other parts of it that are just as important. That's why they don't understand why they see other Christians agreeing and liking the video.

I used to be OSAS as well, but God kept pointing out the other verses that other people ignored and had me pay attention to them, to the point that I no longer believe in OSAS.

That was scary at first when the reality of those verses hit me but God reminded me that as long as I don't leave Him and remain in Him, not resisting His work to change me more and more into His Christlikeness, I'll be okay. That's what it's like for all non-OSAS believers.


🍰

The verse quoted in the YouTube video was probably the verse that offers thee most eternal security to a believer, I'm not sure why anyone would demean that verse. To stoop that low about such a beautiful verse makes me want to stay well clear of such a person.

People who stoop that low to win an argument, are the kind to sell there own family for a gain.

I need to feel loved on the basis that God loves me for who I am not in the bases of that love being conditional.

I'm sure you would understand that, I do feel that the anti once saved always saved doctrine really has reached a whole new level in Christianity theses days, a level that portrays a total lack of empathy.

There's to many people acting like little demi Gods with this anti once saved always saved doctrine, it really is horrible to witness

 

[fredoheaven]

This is false.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 says,
”For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;”

2 Corinthians 7:1 says,
”…let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”

Sanctify, sanctification, holy, and holiness as seen in the scripture have three tenses. It occurs in the past life of believers to the point of salvation which is the work of the Holy Spirit. Presently, as in those verses above, the Holy Spirit is of course still at work in every believer, those who have already been saved. The Holy Spirit is at work molding believers to growth and service. He has to possess his vessel in the sanctification process. The saved must live a holy life in short.

 

[fredoheaven]

This is false.



Romans 8:13
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”

Notice what it says. If you live one way after the flesh or sin, you will die (die spiritually). If you live another way by putting to death the deeds of the body by the Holy Spirit, you will live (live eternally).

The verse has nothing to do with life eternal, it is a present daily living of the saved. Living after the flesh is always against our spirit. They war each other, so dying and living here means becoming inactive or active in God’s service. You only have to choose whether to live or not to live according to the Holy Spirit’s will. This has nothing to do with “losing salvation”.

 

[fredoheaven]

This is false.



Galatians 6:8-9
”For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”

Okay. So verse 8 is saying that if you sow to the flesh (sin), you will reap corruption. But if you sow to the Holy Spirit you will reap life everlasting. Note: Sowing does not mean doing nothing. The idea of sowing is like a farmer who works in planting seeds. Now, in verse 9, we are told by Paul that we are not be weary (tired) in well doing (good works), which is sowing to the Spirit, but we will reap if we faint not. Reap what? Life everlasting as told to us in verse 8. So you have to sow to the Holy Spirit in doing good works in order to reap life everlasting. This is what the passage is plainly saying unless you don’t like what it says and therefore you will do backflip twists through hoops of fire to try and change it. But the point here is that the Bible is teaching that it’s not just doing nothing and or waiting for the Spirit to force you to do something good against your natural carnal self every few years. Believers have to work out their salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

And yet this has nothing to do with losing salvation. Ok, let's see really what the verse did say in v. 8. It is not what you sow but it is “of the Spirit reap life everlasting”. This indicates the origin of life everlasting which is the Spirit or “of the Spirit reap (acquire) life everlasting life. The text does not say” sow to the Holy Spirit you will reap life everlasting”, that is a far cry from the truth!

 

[NightTwister]

Here is a video I think folks should watch.
It uses verses and also explains OSAS and the problem of it.

It is approximately 4 minutes.
So it is not long.

Godwin's Law

 

[Fundaamental]

Here is a video I think folks should watch.
It uses verses and also explains OSAS and the problem of it.

It is approximately 4 minutes.
So it is not long.

your sick 🤢

 

[Kroogz]

I can't believe Christians are agreeing and liking this video.

Let's look at the verse this person in the video says is conditional

27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. [29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


Ok this verse has got to be one of the nicest verses in the bible.

How can anyone say that it's conditional that the sheep follow the shepherd ?


Or how can anyone use this verse to reason Osas is a false doctrine because of this verse ?


Is there Ann chance the sheep follow for any other reason than being conditional ?.

This is a sad day in Christianity for me 😞

He's blind to it, but he is describing himself in his video. Religion. He has forgotten the MILK/ ELEMENTARY of Christ. And every moment he believes that he can lose salvation he is trampling Christs blood and putting Him to open shame. Crucifying Him over and over. The believing Jews were doing it with going back to animal sacrifice, religion does it today by "working" for God so as to gain salvation.

It is near impossible for us to come out of religion. At least sin usually hits a brick wall and people seek Him. Religion on the other hand......

Heb 6:4~~For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have [e]fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

And even still.....the grace of God:

Heb 6~~7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

1 Cor 3~~12Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13each one’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test [e]the quality of each one’s work. 14If anyone’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet only so as through fire.