Israel Declares War

[Moses_Young]

I wouldn't be too hard on them.

Most probably were brought up in an Amil Church, as most mainstream denominations are amil.

Unless they truly hate the Jews like one or two here def do, they'll eventually come around, as it becomes more and more impossible to stay amil.

At what point would you admit you are wrong? If the state of Israel is dissolved, would you admit it then? That you misinterpreted prophecy? Just curious whether this is really just a *very* strongly held belief, or some sort of cult doctrine that takes precedence over scripture.

I'm not Amil (I don't think). I believe Daniel was fulfilled already by 70AD, but not necessarily Revelation.

 

[PennEd]

Christians should not pretend that God is pleased with murderous, lying Babylonian Talmudists,

I don't think God is at all pleased with Israel on many levels.

I fully recognize that the ONLY group of people Jesus was disgusted with and harshly admonished, was the religious leadership, comprised of Pharisees and Sadducees.

I also think there is a push by those same groups, calling themselves Hassidim or extreme Orthodox, to push satanic agendas like Global Noahide Laws.

But I just don't see how any of that changes God's promises and prophecies.

And if we are talking on a purely secular level, the Israeli Government is vastly better than anything the muslims offer.

Ultimately, both groups must acknowledge and accept Christ to be saved.

 

[ZNP]

Then why are so many US politicians duel citizens of Israel, and why are US ships and troops enroute to support the Israeli government commit war crimes and genocide? The US is controlled by Babylonian Talmudists.

The US dollar is the "petro dollar", if we do not protect the Middle East then other countries will not have to buy US debt and the US dollar will collapse. We cannot adequately defend the Middle East without a strong base there, and that strong base is Israel. This is why Jerusalem has become a cup of trembling to the whole world, Russia and China want to replace the US as the protectorate, they can't do that as long as Israel stands.

Ukraine was not in the US national interest, but Israel and Taiwan are both critical to US national defense. If they fall we fall, and if we fall they fall.

 

[ZNP]

Lots of evidence indeed, Jerusalem was the whore of Babylon.

Can you provide the verse references that you are claiming to be the evidence?

 

[Ted01]

Many nations are turning against Israel. If it was any other country at war, no one would show much interest. Turkey bombs the Kurds (yawn), Syria gasses its own people (big deal) and Russia has been attacking Ukrainian civilians continually (tsk tsk). Only Israel creates such a stir. For now, the world is divided for and against Israel. That will change as the world increasingly rejects God. Even Israel's supporters demand the impossible. Defeat Hamas without civilan casualties? I'm sure the IDF is all ears, waiting for advice as how this can be done. Two state solution? The Arab world rejected this in 1948. That was Plan 'A' according to the UN. There is still no plan B. The Arabs will accept only a one state solution. And that means the end of Israel. God will not permit this.

Just another point that should be considered is that in 1947/48 the majority of nations in the UN were for the formation of the nation of Israel - the main sticking point was the size and division of land.

This alone should quiet the idea that "All nations are coming against Israel".

Are there nations that disagree, vocally, with some of the things Israel has done over the decades - sure! (I do too). But that doesn't mean those nations are ready to attack Israel. They (me included) are not antisemitic like some here claim when anyone says anything critical of Israel's policies regarding things of this nature. The racial thing is old and tiresome... it's childish and sophomoric.

 

[Moses_Young]

The US dollar is the "petro dollar", if we do not protect the Middle East then other countries will not have to buy US debt and the US dollar will collapse. We cannot adequately defend the Middle East without a strong base there, and that strong base is Israel. This is why Jerusalem has become a cup of trembling to the whole world, Russia and China want to replace the US as the protectorate, they can't do that as long as Israel stands.

Ukraine was not in the US national interest, but Israel and Taiwan are both critical to US national defense. If they fall we fall, and if we fall they fall.

Isn't that a kind of control, then? One of those offers you can't refuse?

 

[HeIsHere]

I beg to differ. Do not take that to mean I think it's you.

But Israel and Jews are synonymous. That's the dirty little secret so many amils refuse to acknowledge.


No. I think they need to destroy Hamas, and frankly all their supporters as well.

But it sure seems that God is using this war to bring about EXACTLY what the Bible says. That every nation will be against Israel.
You can't see that truth?


You cannot have a ceasefire with a group of people that have not only vowed over and over again to annihilate your people, but have taken tangible steps to do just that.

So the only victory is to destroy them.

What I see is a counterfeit endeavor to make it look like the fulfillment of prophecy.

Jesus knew the signs and He warned HIS followers at the time.

And everything He predicted come to pass exactly as He stated it would.

NO stone was left upturned, where is the third temple?

Who are the Levites, there are no genealogical records they were destroyed in 70 AD.

God is precise, dispensationalists not so much.

 

[PennEd]

At what point would you admit you are wrong? If the state of Israel is dissolved, would you admit it then?

I mean you would have thought that the Amil position would have been dead in the water after May 14th 1948, but instead they have doubled down.

The antichrist WILL for a time subdue and defeat Israel. That's pretty evident from Rev.

That you misinterpreted prophecy

I don't believe in "private interpretations". That is far and away my biggest grievance with amils. Using scripture allegorically to support their position.

Not saying YOU have said this, but some examples I have absolutely heard would be:

The OT dudes didn't really live hundreds of yrs. Ages, and lifespans were calculated differently.

Then again at the End of the Bible. 1000 yrs doesn't really mean 1000 yrs, it just means a long time.

And tons of stuff in the middle like. Jonah, Samson, accounts in Daniel, even Noah were just allegories meant to teach us lessons.

Now I gave you SPECIFIC passages in Isaiah, Psalms, Hosea, and elsewhere that talk about the Jews being regathered, and eventually calling out to Christ. That's what the text says. Not sure where interpretation comes in at all.

 

[ZNP]

Isn't that a kind of control, then? One of those offers you can't refuse?

The whole world lies in the evil one. Israel is part of the same lump of cheese. Those that condemn them are condemning themselves. The whole world is in need of a savior, not just Israel.

 

[Moses_Young]

I mean you would have thought that the Amil position would have been dead in the water after May 14th 1948, but instead they have doubled down.

The antichrist WILL for a time subdue and defeat Israel. That's pretty evident from Rev.


I don't believe in "private interpretations". That is far and away my biggest grievance with amils. Using scripture allegorically to support their position.

Not saying YOU have said this, but some examples I have absolutely heard would be:

The OT dudes didn't really live hundreds of yrs. Ages, and lifespans were calculated differently.

Then again at the End of the Bible. 1000 yrs doesn't really mean 1000 yrs, it just means a long time.

And tons of stuff in the middle like. Jonah, Samson, accounts in Daniel, even Noah were just allegories meant to teach us lessons.

Now I gave you SPECIFIC passages in Isaiah, Psalms, Hosea, and elsewhere that talk about the Jews being regathered, and eventually calling out to Christ. That's what the text says. Not sure where interpretation comes in at all.

That the state of Israel is somehow part of the fulfillment of this. Or is that not what you claim?

 

[PennEd]

Well, support it by say sending troops there as has happened since it's formation as a nation. Troops that fight and die... that kinda' support.

Extremely debatable. But whatever.

econdly, yeah as more time goes by, the closer we get to Christ's return... I get that. But the constant alarmist reaction of "the end is nigh!" reminds me of Fred Sanford faking his heart attacks... "I'm comin' Elizabeth!"

There are so many indicators that the time is short, I couldn't possibly list them all now. It's not just Israel.

 

[HeIsHere]

Can you provide the verse references that you are claiming to be the evidence?

They are described as being “drunk with the blood of the saints" and they commit spiritual adultery.

How the faithful city has become a whore, she who was full of justice!
Isaiah 1:21​

The beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.
Revelation 17:16-17​

The beast is the Roman Empire.
Truth is not slander.

 

[PennEd]

That the state of Israel is somehow part of the fulfillment of this. Or is that not what you claim?

Fulfillment of what?

 

[Moses_Young]

Fulfillment of what?

Of bible prophecy?

 

[Moses_Young]

They are described as being “drunk with the blood of the saints" and they commit spiritual adultery.

How the faithful city has become a whore, she who was full of justice!​

Isaiah 1:21​

The beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.​

Revelation 17:16-17​

The beast is the Roman Empire.
Truth is not slander.

So you believe all of Revelation is fulfilled? Or only parts? Who are the two witnesses?

 

[HeIsHere]

You presume to think that Hamas is capable of trust and goodwill towards Israel?

Wouldn't that be contrary to their primary mandate? That of course is a rhetorical question.

Did you just fall off the turnip truck? That is another rhetorical question.

Sad you think ethnic cleansing is not a crime.

 

[HeIsHere]

So you believe all of Revelation is fulfilled? Or only parts? Who are the two witnesses?

Still learning my friend, still putting it together.

However, I am convinced this is a counterfeit and all the promises to Israel have been fulfilled in Jesus.

There is no real estate owing, that is ridiculous.

 

[Ted01]

Extremely debatable. But whatever.

So, you think that nobody but Israelis and Arabs died in say.... the Suez conflict (1956)?
Interesting.

There are so many indicators that the time is short, I couldn't possibly list them all now. It's not just Israel.

I'm not disagreeing with the idea that Christ's return is close at hand... I just have a problem with the rumors of wars thing. I never cared much for rumor mongering and overly dramatic rhetoric.

 

[PennEd]

Of bible prophecy?

Are you asking if I think Israel today is the Israel referred to about end times prophecy?

If so, then absolutely I do.

God said regather a SECOND time, 1st being after the Babylonian captivity, second starting in 1948.

He didn't say a THIRD time.

 

[Cameron143]

I don't think God is at all pleased with Israel on many levels.

I fully recognize that the ONLY group of people Jesus was disgusted with and harshly admonished, was the religious leadership, comprised of Pharisees and Sadducees.

I also think there is a push by those same groups, calling themselves Hassidim or extreme Orthodox, to push satanic agendas like Global Noahide Laws.

But I just don't see how any of that changes God's promises and prophecies.

And if we are talking on a purely secular level, the Israeli Government is vastly better than anything the muslims offer.

Ultimately, both groups must acknowledge and accept Christ to be saved.

Have you considered that since we are under a new covenant, of necessity the old is of necessity passed and no longer exists? And because it is a covenant involving God, for it to have ended, it must have been fulfilled?
Your last statement, that all must accept Christ, is a condition of the new covenant. The only way for God to deal with Israel as a nation is to reestablish an old covenant or begin a new one.