The Glasgow razor boy and eternal security

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes yes they came running to Him kneeling asking if they could receive everlasting life, they promised to follow Him wherever .... men who had kept the commandments fro their youth up.

Mathew kept the commands before Christ called him?

 

[Evmur]

Well .. looking at the luke warm believers being vomitted out in Revelation.. that is an entire church losing the presence of the Holy Spirit. Not individuals losing eternal life.

The vomitting context is of churches. Not individuals. A Luke warm local church can lose the presence of the Holy Spirit, ceasing to be one of God's churches.

absolutely ... and it is written especially to the "angel" that is the minister. churches and denominations grow lukewarm and cold ... they wither and die.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It's true, go to Sudan or India find out there if people have freewill.

Such a stupid song and dance folk make of this idol, for that is what it is.

Tell me

Did God ask you if you would like to born? did He come and consult with you? where you would be born? who shoud be your parents? what sex you'd like to choose? how tall? fat or thin?

These are things concerning our natural life and yet they think when it comes to that oh so more important matter of eternal life God leaves that to our own puny human wisdom,

I read differently.

I read "the wind blows where He will and ye hear the sound thereof .... so is everyone who is born again of the Spirit."

So let me get this straight.

God chose to have me born in a small town in the central United States. Where I have christian parents, was raised up in Gods word. The town is a christian town. Everyone goes to church and knows each other. But since God did not chose me to spiritual life. I will never come to him, even if I wanted to

And another person is born in the inner city where my family and friends are unbelievers, where the churches have been burnt to the ground, There are no christians and he has no access to the word. But since God chose him he will somehow be enlightened and be saved..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Do you think it is possible Oy that the whole church practically could be caught in idolatry? It actually happened for 1500 years with the doctrine of Mary and the even worse doctrine of the eucharist. Everyone believed these things.

The whole church at Galatia was bewitched and turned away from Paul's simple gospel. At the end of Paul's ministry he wrote that all Asia had turned away from him.

What IS this idolatry? YOU, your will, your free will as you suppose.

Your doctrine makes your will, your choosings to be equal to God for it plays an equal role in your salvation. Your will [not only yours] is sovereign.

... that's why folks get angry when you argue against it.

Free wikk was their idolatry?
Can you show this in scripture?

 

[Evmur]

It is individuals who will stand before God at the GWTJ, not corporate bodies or entire denominations or churches. Christianity is about a relationship, not a religion. Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord, not some local religious group of that time and age.

I have GOOD NEWS for you Oy

YOU will not stand for judgement at the Great White Throne. Jesus has already been judged, found guilty [on our behalf] sentenced and executed [on our behalf]

We are passed over from judgement to life.

I am sure we have our own judgement from the Lord which will determine rewards or losses.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

We don't have the free will to leave God ..but I believe we exercise free will initially to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ at salvation. I don't agree with being converted before you believe.

Neither Calvinist nor Arminian

Same here.

I also do not believe a person who was rescued from a raging ocean where they had no hope. And could not save themselves. But they chose to allow someone else to save them

would want to go back to that raging ocean where they were dead.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

John 17:12
“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”

John 6:66
“From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.”

Jesus said in John 4 why they left

they did not believe (all of them) and one of them was the devil

They did nto lose salvation, they never had it

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Well .. looking at the luke warm believers being vomitted out in Revelation.. that is an entire church losing the presence of the Holy Spirit. Not individuals losing eternal life.

The vomitting context is of churches. Not individuals. A Luke warm local church can lose the presence of the Holy Spirit, ceasing to be one of God's churches.

Amen,

Like when God vomited Israel out under Babylon. Many were still saved, Daniel was a great man od God enslaved.

He took the nations of Israel not the induviduals salvation

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

We are the CHURCH, it's why Revelation Chapters 1-3 are mentioned by God.
Those SINS apply to each one of us INDIVIDUALLY.
me, by myself, alone, as long as God lives in me and I abide in Him...is the CHURCH!

The local churches are part of the body of Christ

when a local church rebels as a church, God will take his lamp stand from them, and they will become powerless

 

[Evmur]

Free wikk was their idolatry?
Can you show this in scripture?

all false doctrines correspond to idolatry.

Remember Naaman the leper how he was wroth and rid away in a rage when the Prophet said wash in Jordan [the river of God]
he said "are not Pharpar and Abana [which mean Human skill and human ability] better than all the dirty waters of Israel?"

... folks get angry when you speak against their idols.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

all false doctrines correspond to idolatry.

Remember Naaman the leper how he was wroth and rid away in a rage when the Prophet said wash in Jordan [the river of God]
he said "are not Pharpar and Abana [which mean Human skill and human ability] better than all the dirty waters of Israel?"

... folks get angry when you speak against their idols.

Again

Can you show me where free will is an idol

Just calling it a false doctrine does not prove it is false doctrine

 

[Evmur]

Same here.

I also do not believe a person who was rescued from a raging ocean where they had no hope. And could not save themselves. But they chose to allow someone else to save them

would want to go back to that raging ocean where they were dead.

That is a very good illustration, that fella in the raging ocean is plumb out of everything, his strength is gone, his will to resist, he has to entirely entrust himself to another if he is to be saved.

I don't know what other say to the Lord when they pray for salvation but I know I said "God I can't do this, You will have to do it all"

To receive Jesus as LORD is to SUBMIT. God has conquered us with love.

 

[Evmur]

Again

Can you show me where free will is an idol

Just calling it a false doctrine does not prove it is false doctrine

no no no false doctrine is an idol.

And if somebody is saying their will [+ God of course, He plays some part] but it was their will then that is to make their will an idol.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

That is a very good illustration, that fella in the raging ocean is plumb out of everything, his strength is gone, his will to resist, he has to entirely entrust himself to another if he is to be saved.

I don't know what other say to the Lord when they pray for salvation but I know I said "God I can't do this, You will have to do it all"

To receive Jesus as LORD is to SUBMIT. God has conquered us with love.

Sadly, many chose, like the children of Israel when God had moses lift a serpent on the pole, to continue to think they were ok, they did not need saved or they could save themselves. And rejected the one sent to save them

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

no no no false doctrine is an idol.

And if somebody is saying their will [+ God of course, He plays some part] but it was their will then that is to make their will an idol.

You still can not show me

I can will to recieve the gift of God and be saved

or i can will to reject the gift of God and stay unsaved.

That is not an idol.. this makes no sense whatseoever

 

[Evmur]

You still can not show me

I can will to recieve the gift of God and be saved

or i can will to reject the gift of God and stay unsaved.

That is not an idol.. this makes no sense whatseoever

You can will? that's what I say is an idol.

It is the trick the devil played in Eden "you'll be like God, he said, knowing good and evil" he said In other words you can choose.

But Jesus said "no man can come to Me unless the Father draw him"

 

[Evmur]

Sadly, many chose, like the children of Israel when God had moses lift a serpent on the pole, to continue to think they were ok, they did not need saved or they could save themselves. And rejected the one sent to save them

Who could look? could the Egyptians? the Amelikites? the Anakin? could the English look and be healed?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You can will? that's what I say is an idol.

It is the trick the devil played in Eden "you'll be like God, he said, knowing good and evil" he said In other words you can choose.

But Jesus said "no man can come to Me unless the Father draw him"

Yes,’

in the same conversation, he said that whoever sees and believes will be saved.

We will not believe unless God draws us I agree. He must take us to our knees or we will never believe

but we still must chose to say yes lord, I want your salvation. Or no lord. I do not want it.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Who could look? could the Egyptians? the Amelikites? the Anakin? could the English look and be healed?

Who could look?

Anyone who was there. Did they all look?

Why did the ones who did look look? What caused the ones who did not look to not look?

Jesus used that when he spoke to nicodemus, and he said as moses raised the serpent, so too must the son of man be raised. Why?

Because Egyptians Romans, Americans, Muslims, Jews, Men, women, are as good as dead with no hope. So God lifted his son, that whoever “looks” to the cross will be saved.

Just like the children of Israel had to look at the serpent. We must look to the cross.

We look for the same reason they did. And we do not look for the same reason they did not look

Belief or unbelief.

Those who believe (looked) are not condemned, those who do not believe (do not look) are condemned (dead) already.

we must chose to believe and look, or to reject and not look.

 

[Evmur]

Who could look?

Anyone who was there. Did they all look?

Why did the ones who did look look? What caused the ones who did not look to not look?

Jesus used that when he spoke to nicodemus, and he said as moses raised the serpent, so too must the son of man be raised. Why?

Because Egyptians Romans, Americans, Muslims, Jews, Men, women, are as good as dead with no hope. So God lifted his son, that whoever “looks” to the cross will be saved.

Just like the children of Israel had to look at the serpent. We must look to the cross.

We look for the same reason they did. And we do not look for the same reason they did not look

Belief or unbelief.

Those who believe (looked) are not condemned, those who do not believe (do not look) are condemned (dead) already.

we must chose to believe and look, or to reject and not look.

This is the great flaw of Arminian theology that makes it millions of times worse than Calvin. Calvin's solution is Limited Atonement which is pretty abhorrent but at least it would depend upon God's judgement. Arminius makes it depend upon human will. Not only the human will of the one who hears the gospel but ...
... but the will of those who are tasked with preaching the good news to the whole world. Will they go or will they stay at home? whole nations of souls depend upon it BILLIONS of souls.

That's if you believe Arminius. You can only choose if you are given a choice.

"anyone who was there" you say, that's right, the Jews, they were there. They were the chosen people. Elect, chosen.

I constantly hear folks say in the last judgement is unto damnation, after all the church is in the first resurrection right? so according to any theology all else have been passed over and must be damned ... right?

That is not what the bible says. The bible says that when God comes to judge the earth He will judge with equity, that is with perfect fairness.