The Trinity.

[JimmyTheLock]

While I love this verse, the Bible is clear, the The Three, the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are one. This speaks of unity. The Bible didnt say the Three is one, that makes oneness. The verse is a trinitarian view.

That's hilarious!

It specifically says these three are one!

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE.

Did you see the part I highlighted in red???

God is ONE and He is THREE all at the same time which is what scripture says!

Maybe it would help if you give 1 John 5:7 the Benjamin Franklin treatment and cut this verse out of your bible

 

[bluto]

While I love this verse, the Bible is clear, the The Three, the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are one. This speaks of unity. The Bible didnt say the Three is one, that makes oneness. The verse is a trinitarian view.

John 10:30 literally says, "I and the Father we are one." Can you please tell us all here in what respect are they one? In other words, how are they one?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

fredoheaven said:
[...] the Bible is clear, the The Three, the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are one. [...]

That's hilarious!

It specifically says these three are one!
1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE.
Did you see the part I highlighted in red???

God is ONE and He is THREE all at the same time which is what scripture says!

Did you read what fredoheaven wrote?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@JimmyTheLock ,

you wrote (to fredoheaven):

Maybe it would help if you give 1 John 5:7 the Benjamin Franklin treatment and cut this verse out of your bible

In my post above (Post #483), I do not see where fredoheaven "cut out" that verse (or even hinted at such a thing), as you suggest... regarding what he'd put in his post.





[I do detect something else, however... in your post / reply to his ... ]

 

[ewq1938]

because, that's not what JOHN WROTE.
John, had a PURPOSE, from the HOLY SPIRIT, for what he wrote.

it's not YOUR, MINE, anyone, especially the RCC, place to change it.

when someone changes it, it becomes DEAD and bastardized. and that's what they did!

You avoided the actual content of my post which to me shows you cannot address it, so you used a red herring fallacy to side step.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

You avoided the actual content of my post which to me shows you cannot address it, so you used a red herring fallacy to side step.

i used the facts. you are the one trying to validate an add in, not me.

and just like i said, the majority of scholars and theologians make this claim, as i mentioned in my previous post:

The Johannine Comma appears to have originated as a gloss in a Latin manuscript around the end of the 4th century, and was subsequently incorporated into the text of the Old Latin Bible during the 5th century, though not the earliest Vulgate manuscripts. It began to appear in manuscripts of the Vulgate starting after c. 800, and subsequently entered the Greek manuscript tradition in the 15th century (see Inclusion by Erasmus)


notice, the Johannine Comma, was nowhere in Jerome's Version of the Latin Vulgate and he had ACCESS to ALL of the Original Greek COPIES!!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Erasmus claims: It began to appear in manuscripts of the Vulgate starting after c. 800, and subsequently entered the Greek manuscript tradition in the 15th century (see Inclusion by Erasmus)

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

so, ewq1938,

why would i discuss the Trinity, when the Trinity was Never a part of 1 John 5:6-8?

 

[ewq1938]

so, ewq1938,

why would i discuss the Trinity, when the Trinity was Never a part of 1 John 5:6-8?

A trinity is found twice in those verses yet you want to erase one of them which leaves the passage making no sense.


If verse 8 can speak of three being one or in one, why can't a verse say the same about the Father, Word and Spirit? They sound in harmony to me.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


Also, your verse 7 doesn't match the first part of verse 7 in the KJV. It says in the Greek, "ὅτι τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες εν τῷ οὐρανῷ, " "For there are three that bear record in heaven" but your verse has none of that.

Obviously three bearing witness in heaven and in Earth are a match and make sense. The alternative makes no sense.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

A trinity is found twice in those verses yet you want to erase one of them which leaves the passage making no sense.


If verse 8 can speak of three being one or in one, why can't a verse say the same about the Father, Word and Spirit? They sound in harmony to me.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


Also, your verse 7 doesn't match the first part of verse 7 in the KJV. It says in the Greek, "ὅτι τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες εν τῷ οὐρανῷ, " "For there are three that bear record in heaven" but your verse has none of that.

Obviously three bearing witness in heaven and in Earth are a match and make sense. The alternative makes no sense.

YOUR VERSE 7 NEVER EXISTED until the RCC made it up like I showed YOU!!!!

7. And The Spirit testifies because The Spirit is the truth.
8. And there are three testifying: The Spirit and the water and the blood, and the three of them are in one.


The Johannine Comma appears to have originated as a gloss in a Latin manuscript around the end of the 4th century, and was subsequently incorporated into the text of the Old Latin Bible during the 5th century, though not the earliest Vulgate manuscripts. It began to appear in manuscripts of the Vulgate starting after c. 800, and subsequently entered the Greek manuscript tradition in the 15th century (see Inclusion by Erasmus)


notice, the Johannine Comma, was nowhere in Jerome's Version of the Latin Vulgate and he had ACCESS to ALL of the Original Greek COPIES!!


YOUR VERSE [(7)] did not appear in the Bible until the year 800 A.D.

 

[ewq1938]

YOUR VERSE 7 NEVER EXISTED until the RCC made it up like I showed YOU!!!!

7. And The Spirit testifies because The Spirit is the truth.
8. And there are three testifying: The Spirit and the water and the blood, and the three of them are in one.


The Johannine Comma appears to have originated as a gloss in a Latin manuscript around the end of the 4th century, and was subsequently incorporated into the text of the Old Latin Bible during the 5th century, though not the earliest Vulgate manuscripts. It began to appear in manuscripts of the Vulgate starting after c. 800, and subsequently entered the Greek manuscript tradition in the 15th century (see Inclusion by Erasmus)


notice, the Johannine Comma, was nowhere in Jerome's Version of the Latin Vulgate and he had ACCESS to ALL of the Original Greek COPIES!!


YOUR VERSE [(7)] did not appear in the Bible until the year 800 A.D.

Isn't that before the Catholic church was created?


I am not impressed with any of this. I believe God wanted both examples of a trinity to appear in the two sister verses. I find both to match, and support the bible's overall teaching that God is a Trinity of the Father, Son and HS. They are all over scripture and each are called God in other passages.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Isn't that before the Catholic church was created?

Jerome, in the 382 AD, was ordered by the Pope Damasus I

Pope Damasus I

The Vulgate is largely the work of Jerome who, in 382, had been commissioned by Pope Damasus I to revise the Vetus Latina Gospels used by the Roman Church.

I am not impressed with any of this. I believe God wanted both examples of a trinity to appear in the two sister verses. I find both to match, and support the bible's overall teaching that God is a Trinity of the Father, Son and HS. They are all over scripture and each are called God in other passages.

i don't care what you think or believe.
i have no reason to deceive you.
you do not want to accept the facts, why should i care?
it's YOU, not me, believing the LIE!

 

[ewq1938]

i don't care what you think or believe.
i have no reason to deceive you.
you do not want to accept the facts, why should i care?
it's YOU, not me, believing the LIE!

No, it's you. The Trinity is biblical.

The Father is God

2Pe_1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

The Son is God

Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.

1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God and Christ was that same Rock.


Holy Spirit is God

Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Here lying to the Holy Spirit is called lying to God.


To believe in the Trinity is to believe these three things are true, that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God in their own right and work together as One.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

No, it's you. The Trinity is biblical.

The Father is God

2Pe_1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

The Son is God

Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.

1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God and Christ was that same Rock.


Holy Spirit is God

Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Here lying to the Holy Spirit is called lying to God.


To believe in the Trinity is to believe these three things are true, that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God in their own right and work together as One.

back up!!
SERIOUSLY!!

show me where I denied the Trinity?

I am merely presenting a TRUE FACT that 1 John 5:7 has been CHANGED, and that the J. Comma NEVER existed until the CATHOLICS made it exist.


you claiming that means denial of Trinity, is why Sinners, don't trust many Christians... because, they LIE, just as easy as taking their next breathe!

 

[ewq1938]

I am merely presenting a TRUE FACT that 1 John 5:7 has been CHANGED, and that the J. Comma NEVER existed until the CATHOLICS made it exist.

One could argue they preserved the truth and others CHANGED by removing evidence of the Trinity.

You still haven't commented on the fact that the two verses match perfectly with what is being discussed. Your proposal makes nonsense from the text like removing mention of heaven and Earth and the three things in each that testify of the truth.

 

[Braweh]

Coming out of discussion in one of the threads, "Can you be a true Christian and deny belief in the Trinity?"
Let's discuss.

You can only be a True Christian if you reject the trinity as it is an idol -

- it is a false image of God Almighty that is never presented by God, nor any prophet, anywhere in all of Scripture.

 

[bluto]

You can only be a True Christian if you reject the trinity as it is an idol -

- it is a false image of God Almighty that is never presented by God, nor any prophet, anywhere in all of Scripture.

Well let"s test your uninformed opinion shall we. Does the Bible anywhere identify God the Father as God? Does the Bible anywhere identify the Son of God as God? Lastly, is the Holy Spirit identified as God anywhere in the Bible?

In Him,
bluto

 

[Braweh]

Well let"s test your uninformed opinion shall we. Does the Bible anywhere identify God the Father as God? Does the Bible anywhere identify the Son of God as God? Lastly, is the Holy Spirit identified as God anywhere in the Bible?

In Him,
bluto

First, tell me what the difference is between "uninformed opinion" and calling me "ignorant" or referring to my "ignorance".

I just wanna know what I'm allowed to say to you in response before I straighten you out.

Thanks and God bless.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

One could argue they preserved the truth and others CHANGED by removing evidence of the Trinity.

You still haven't commented on the fact that the two verses match perfectly with what is being discussed. Your proposal makes nonsense from the text like removing mention of heaven and Earth and the three things in each that testify of the truth.

how can you ARGUE they REMOVED something that did not exist for ANOTHER 450 years after Jerome died?

are you really this ..?

 

[bluto]

First, tell me what the difference is between "uninformed opinion" and calling me "ignorant" or referring to my "ignorance".

I just wanna know what I'm allowed to say to you in response before I straighten you out.

Thanks and God bless.

Well how about this, demonstrate your obvious Biblical ignorance by showing all of us here who told you this statement of yours is true? "You can only be a True Christian if you reject the trinity as it is an idol - " PS: You allowed to say just about anything you want but remember this, anyone can state a position, around here and at other places you have to prove your position. Your Welcome!

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto