Does God Know From All Eternity Who Will Die Having Rejected Sound Doctrine?

[Magenta]

I don't know if anything is an "effort" to the omnipotent God.

And then in His effort, Jesus sweat drops of blood...

 

[PaulThomson]

Were you called?

Romans 8:29-30 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to
the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; And those He
predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.

Yes I was. We are all called. Many are called, but few are chosen. Many are called but few respond to the call with faith to become part of the elect ones (eklektoi plural). I'm pretty sure that "the elect" are always referred to in the plural, as a community; unless it is referring to Christ.

 

[PaulThomson]

And then in His effort, Jesus sweat drops of blood...

One point to kenosis.

 

[Magenta]

Yes I was. We are all called. Many are called, but few are chosen. Many are called but few respond to the call with faith to become part of the elect ones (eklektoi plural). I'm pretty sure that "the elect" are always referred to in the plural, as a community; unless it is referring to Christ.

So then Romans 8:29-30 applies to you also.

 

[PaulThomson]

He certainly knows what I am inclined to do based upon my heart. He tested Abraham to see if Abraham feared God. When Abraham began to sacrifice his son, God stopped him because now he knew that he feared God seeing that Abraham was going to sacrifice his only son.

I don't think God ever intended for Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. The word for "burnt offering" actually means "to offer up, to cause to ascend".
True, it is almost always used exclusively to refer to burnt offerings in the OT, since the rising smoke ascended. But it occurs twice elsewhere meaning stairs. If we offer up anything to God without burning it, it still ascends. I believe God to Abraham to offer up Isaac and Abraham misunderstood that God wanted Him to stop coddling Isaac and entrust him fully to God's protection. But God allowed abraham to continue under that misapprehension so that Abraham could be brought to the point of truly handing Isaac over to God, believing that God wuld keep His promise re Isaac by raising him from the dead. Once Abraham crossed that threshold of faith and handing over with the knife raised, God stopped him.

 

[PaulThomson]

So then Romans 8:29-30 applies to you also.

As long as I am found still "in Him", in the community of faith, upon my death.

 

[PaulThomson]

If you are asking does God display emotion? He gets angry. He is jealous. To name but a couple. But He has, in His word, made use of language to aid our understanding of Him.

Has He always been angry, and will always be angry ?

 

[Magenta]

As long as I am found still "in Him", in the community of faith, upon my death.

So if you fall away, you were not called?

 

[Cameron143]

Could you and Cameron143 please stop with your strawman whack-a-mole routine, mischaracterising what people post in an attempt merely to parody the argument being made and poison the well. That is not good faith debate.

The straw man was the lie that Open theists must deny that scripture that says God knows what we will say before we speak. I pointed out that "before" in that text does not have to mean "from everlasting" ( "eternity past" being an oxymoron). It only needs to mean immediately before, and if so would be conveying God's present infinite knowledge of the present state of all things, not His present infinite knowledge of everything that you will say into endless time. Rather than explain why this could not be the meaning of the text, you again merely misrepresented open theism and parodied the answer rather than rebutting it. Open theists do not "speak as though God is no better than any human with an MRI machine and a little bit of education in psychology and neurology." Nor did I.

God can anticipate the words about to be spoken by every creature in the universe at one time. No human with an MRI machine and a little bit of education in psychology and neurology" can come close to that. How about dealing with the arguments posted, rather than this wasting your life playing games to avoid understanding hard to swallow facts.

Does God need to know from everlasting all past, present and future events in order for Him to know what you will say before you say it. Clearly not, because you just admitted that even a human can do that without having such exhaustive foreknowledge.

Does the omnipotent God need to know from everlasting all past, present and future events in order for Him to make a decree today and cause it to happen in one years time. Clearly not. Using His omnipotence He can cause that goal to eventuate.

So, the text clearly does not prove exhaustive foreknowledge, and is perfectly compatible with open theism. Admit that and maybe try some other verses. But your methodology of resiling from all admissions that might weaken your case, misrepresenting the unrebutted claim to pretend the text was not answered adequately and then erecting a straw man parody to knock down or jumping to a new verse is not serving you well if you are truly interested in learning truth.

Quite frankly I don't read much of what you write. It's very convoluted. You imagine by writing in high-minded language you will appear scholarly, but the people who wrote most of the Bible(what we are discussing)
were anything but. They were fishermen and farmers. Be sincere...be brief...be seated.

 

[PaulThomson]

If you are asking does God display emotion? He gets angry. He is jealous. To name but a couple. But He has, in His word, made use of language to aid our understanding of Him.

Has God always been angry, and will God always be angry?

 

[Cameron143]

Has He always been angry, and will always be angry ?

Not what I said or implied. I haven't been discussing emotions. I merely replied to what you introduced. I've been considering literary devices employed by God in scripture to aid human understanding.

 

[PaulThomson]

Quite frankly I don't read much of what you write. It's very convoluted. You imagine by writing in high-minded language you will appear scholarly, but the people who wrote most of the Bible(what we are discussing)
were anything but. They were fishermen and farmers. Be sincere...be brief...be seated.

Are ad hominem and straw men all you have to offer ? If you haven't read a post and taken the time to understand what is being said, how can you possibly respond to the post. You are merely reading enough to label the poster and then firing a generic harpoon from your tradition's guns at them based on the label you have facilely applied.

 

[PaulThomson]

Not what I said or implied. I haven't been discussing emotions. I merely replied to what you introduced. I've been considering literary devices employed by God in scripture to aid human understanding.

You said "He gets angry. He is jealous."

So, is he sometimes angry or always angry and will he always be getting angry?

 

[Cameron143]

Are ad hominem and straw men all you have to offer ? If you haven't read a post and taken the time to understand what is being said, how can you possibly respond to the post. You are merely reading enough to label the poster and then firing a generic harpoon from your tradition's guns at them based on the label you have facilely applied.

I'm trying my best to answer when you address me. But I don't understand much of what you say. I can't follow your reasoning. I have no interest in harpooning anyone. You are all over the place. Don't get upset when someone can't follow.

 

[selahsays]

Yes I was. We are all called. Many are called, but few are chosen. Many are called but few respond to the call with faith to become part of the elect ones (eklektoi plural). I'm pretty sure that "the elect" are always referred to in the plural, as a community; unless it is referring to Christ.

Hello, Paul. Yes, the Elect are more than one—plural. However, I believe that through His foreknowledge, God chose each of His Election on an individual basis. Thoughts?

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

- Romans 8:28-30 (KJV)

 

[Cameron143]

You said "He gets angry. He is jealous."

So, is he sometimes angry or always angry and will he always be getting angry?

I merely wrote what scripture records. As far as answering, I don't know. God is angry over nonrepented sin of nonbelievers. If people are punished throughout eternity, maybe. Is God angry at His children, I think no. Even when they sin, His chastening reflects love.

 

[oyster67]

Foreknowledge simply means that God knows about things in the future. This should not be a new concept to anyone who has heard of a thing called "prophecy". Just because He knows things does not mean or imply that He forces things. The Bible is clear about every man needing to confess, repent, and believe. Foreknowledge in no way prevents or preempts this.

 

[oyster67]

I merely wrote what scripture records. As far as answering, I don't know. God is angry over nonrepented sin of nonbelievers. If people are punished throughout eternity, maybe. Is God angry at His children, I think no. Even when they sin, His chastening reflects love.

'twas a sad day when men took it upon themselves to judge God from their stools and highchairs and point their stubby little fingers at Him and say, "You can't do 'dis" and "You can't do 'dat"!

What a bunch of retards.

 

[Cameron143]

'twas a sad day when men took it upon themselves to judge God from their stools and highchairs and point their stubby little fingers at Him and say, "You can't do 'dis" and "You can't do 'dat"!

What a bunch of retards.

I remember when God inspired awe and fear in mankind. Now, it seems, He is us.

 

[posthuman]

Let's apply this to your position.
Which of these statements do you reject?

1.God's holiness is an indispensible attribute according to scripture.
2.God's holiness means there has never been any moral evil in Him.
3.There has never been a time when God was not free of all moral evil.
4.God never changes.
5.God never learns anything.
6.Everything that is and happens has always been known by God. He never started to know anything.
7.All moral evil in the world was always in God's eternal mind, as was the performing of it, before creation began.

How do you reconcile 7 with 1-6 ?

awareness of sin does not make you guilty of that sin, as previously discussed.

God knows your sin.
that does not make God a sinner.