God's ONE Baptism For His Body!

[turbosixx]

Ok. But those verses I mentioned are clearly spiritual and done by the Holy Spirit. Our differences aren't actually about baptism, but scripture.

I'm sorry but they are not spiritual. There is plenty of proof to support the Ephesians and Corinthians were water baptized, some twice. I don't know of any proof of a "spiritual baptism"?
If they are spiritual then Eph. 4:5 doesn't make sense. Everyone converted was water baptized then you say they were "spiritually baptized". That makes 2 baptisms.

 

[turbosixx]

Paul is making a doctrine known unto them. Imparting something (a doctrine) doesn't mean those saved (the true hearers) could/would fall. Paul said the "if you" because not all were saved, so the "if you" represented the unsaved, but from it, the saved became wiser, gained understanding, and knowledge of salvation. Those saved WILL continue in His goodness but it is only because of God that they do - it is not of themselves.

[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

So you're saying those wild branches God grafted into the tree are not saved?

 

[tylerbones1313]

But does the Bible itself tell/instruct us anywhere to use that method?

Before Jesus arrived on the Earth to give forth his wonderful message all they understood was a metod of law and works the method of Grace and Truth which Christ brought was never instructed until He showed them the way the truth and the life.

To all my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord I ask only that you study to show yourself approved unto God. After all He is the only one with the true interpretation. His words are Truth and they are Life read the scriptures from that understanding and marvelous things will begin to happen in your heart and in your life.

 

[tylerbones1313]

I do believe God has dealt with mankind differently at different times. But every action on God's behalf towards man has been gracious, unless you believe man earned the right to exist.

unless you believe man earned the right to exist

(Very powerful statement thank you so very much for that)

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said I'm just saying that the fullness of the dispensation of Grace took place when it did because it was opened up to the gentiles (everyone outside of the Jewish Nation) whereas in the Old testament the grace was given to God's people Israel if that makes sense.

God be praised always amen.
God bless you always my brother and sisters in the Lord.

 

[rogerg]

Before Jesus arrived on the Earth to give forth his wonderful message all they understood was a metod of law and works the method of Grace and Truth which Christ brought was never instructed until He showed them the way the truth and the life.

To all my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord I ask only that you study to show yourself approved unto God. After all He is the only one with the true interpretation. His words are Truth and they are Life read the scriptures from that understanding and marvelous things will begin to happen in your heart and in your life.

thanks, but I don't think that answers my question. As I understand it, you suggest using dispensation as a template and method to interpret the Bible. My question was where in the Bible did you find that technique described? The Bible does set-forth its own explicit/implicit instructions/rules for its own interpretation, but I don't recall seeing that one being mentioned among them.

 

[tylerbones1313]

thanks, but I don't think that answers my question. As I understand it, you suggest using dispensation as a template and method to interpret the Bible. My question was where in the Bible did you find that technique described? The Bible does set-forth its own explicit/implicit instructions/rules for its own interpretation, but I don't recall seeing that one being mentioned among them.

thanks, but I don't think that answers my question. As I understand it, you suggest using dispensation as a template and method to interpret the Bible. My question was where in the Bible did you find that technique described? The Bible does set-forth its own explicit/implicit instructions/rules for its own interpretation, but I don't recall seeing that one being mentioned among them.

You have heard of hermeneutics and exegesis have you not and if so the Bible scholars way back in history and the times before Christ and even in the times of Christ do not know about these methods but they are true methods to use to help interpret the Bible are they not.

 

[tylerbones1313]

I'm sorry but they are not spiritual. There is plenty of proof to support the Ephesians and Corinthians were water baptized, some twice. I don't know of any proof of a "spiritual baptism"?
If they are spiritual then Eph. 4:5 doesn't make sense. Everyone converted was water baptized then you say they were "spiritually baptized". That makes 2 baptisms.

Baptism of Repentance
Baptism (water) into Christ
Baptism of the Holy Ghost

 

[tylerbones1313]

I'm sorry but they are not spiritual. There is plenty of proof to support the Ephesians and Corinthians were water baptized, some twice. I don't know of any proof of a "spiritual baptism"?
If they are spiritual then Eph. 4:5 doesn't make sense. Everyone converted was water baptized then you say they were "spiritually baptized". That makes 2 baptisms.

The writings of the early Church Fathers suggest that the baptism of the Holy Ghost was considered to be an essential part of the Christian experience. This suggests that those who were rebaptized into Christ were also filled with the Holy Ghost.

scholars argue that the Ephesians were indeed rebaptized, and that this was necessary to complete their conversion. They point out that John's baptism was a baptism of repentance, while Christ's baptism is a baptism of the Holy Ghost. Only by being baptized into Christ could the Ephesians receive the power of the Holy Ghost and be filled with his gifts.

 

[rogerg]

Sorry, let me try a different approach.

My point is baptism is mentioned 4 times in 1 Cor. When the Corinthians read the letter from Paul, they understand baptism as water baptism. In ch. 1 the baptism mentioned is their own water baptism. In ch. 10 the baptism is the Israelites passing through the water of the sea and cloud. In ch. 15 the baptism is people water baptizing for the dead.
So when the Corinthians read 12:13, they understand it as water baptism as well. That's all they know. It also makes sense. Everyone converted was water baptized and then the HS added them. We see that in the first conversions. Only those baptized were added.
So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

No, those who received His word were baptized after that with water baptism, IOW they first they received His word. No one can truly receive His word except that they be spiritually baptized first.
We are to be baptized with water, but only to demonstrate what has already occurred in the spiritual realm, and not believe/trust in it such that it can make anything in the spiritual realm occur.

 

[rogerg]

You have heard of hermeneutics and exegesis have you not and if so the Bible scholars way back in history and the times before Christ and even in the times of Christ do not know about these methods but they are true methods to use to help interpret the Bible are they not.

If they are true, then they should be found in the Bible and the Bible alone. The Bible admonishes us that it is fully complete in and of itself, needing nothing besides what it has already presented within it for us to gain wisdom and understanding.

[2Ti 3:16-17 KJV]
16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[rogerg]

So you're saying those wild branches God grafted into the tree are not saved?

Not all of them - only those to whom God has given faith. Being a branch is not necessarily to have been saved.

[Rom 11:21 KJV]
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.


[Jhn 15:2, 4-6 KJV]
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. ...
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.

 

[tylerbones1313]

If they are true, then they should be found in the Bible and the Bible alone. The Bible admonishes us that it is fully complete in and of itself, needing nothing besides what it has already presented within it for us to gain wisdom and understanding.

[2Ti 3:16-17 KJV]
16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Nicodemus considered the teacher of all teachers in his day came to Jesus by night and Jesus revealed to him the new birth. Nicodemus was well versed in all scripture all the way up until the time of Christ and yet he did not understand the new birth it had to be revealed to him he did not find it in Scripture.

There is an old covenant which was in effect until Christ died and rose again. Then there is the new Testament (covenant) from that time til the end of the age.

Hebrews 9:14-17 reads:

14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

This new and living way had to be revealed it was unknown to the world up til that time.

No one has to believe the words I say I am just a mere mortal and prone to mistakes. Just really read my comments taking it on faith pray about it if it's not true God himself will reveal it to you He's the TRUE interpreter anyway. God bless you so much

 

[Cameron143]

I'm sorry but they are not spiritual. There is plenty of proof to support the Ephesians and Corinthians were water baptized, some twice. I don't know of any proof of a "spiritual baptism"?
If they are spiritual then Eph. 4:5 doesn't make sense. Everyone converted was water baptized then you say they were "spiritually baptized". That makes 2 baptisms.

There are at least 4 baptisms spoken of in the Bible. Water baptism is but one of those. The baptism that places us into Christ is spiritual. It is the baptism spoken of in Ephesians 4.

 

[rogerg]

So you're saying those wild branches God grafted into the tree are not saved?

Let me answer you more precisely. The branches that God grafts in are saved. However, not all of the branches grafted in are grafted in by God and so are not of the saved. Those claiming to be Christians but are not true Christians of the elect, can graft themselves in for a while but eventually will wither and fall away.

 

[turbosixx]

Baptism of Repentance
Baptism (water) into Christ
Baptism of the Holy Ghost

I don't see the last one in scripture

 

[turbosixx]

The writings of the early Church Fathers suggest that the baptism of the Holy Ghost was considered to be an essential part of the Christian experience. This suggests that those who were rebaptized into Christ were also filled with the Holy Ghost.

scholars argue that the Ephesians were indeed rebaptized, and that this was necessary to complete their conversion. They point out that John's baptism was a baptism of repentance, while Christ's baptism is a baptism of the Holy Ghost. Only by being baptized into Christ could the Ephesians receive the power of the Holy Ghost and be filled with his gifts.

I agree. In your previous post you just listed baptisms and I wasn't sure of your point.

I don't rely a whole lot on the writings of the scholars or "church fathers". I do read them every once in a while, but for the most part I rely on what the bible says. God wrote it on level we can understand without being a scholar or PhD. It's really not that hard to understand if we read it in context and with our filters turned off.

It's obvious that it is necessary to be baptized in the name of Jesus to complete the conversion and be added to the body.
All conversions end in baptism. As for those rebaptized. If we compare the Samaritans in Acts 8, we get a better picture. They were baptized in the name of Jesus so they had been baptized into Christ. All the apostles had to do was lay hands on them to give them some gifts. Those in Acts 19 were baptized with the wrong baptism so they had to be baptized in the name of Jesus in order to be given gifts.

I'm afraid people read the bible looking to prove what they already believe and not what it says. I assume they may find that they're wrong. I want to find out I'm wrong before the day of judgement.

 

[turbosixx]

There are at least 4 baptisms spoken of in the Bible. Water baptism is but one of those. The baptism that places us into Christ is spiritual. It is the baptism spoken of in Ephesians 4.

So do those "spiritually baptized" get water baptized?

 

[tylerbones1313]

I don't see the last one in scripture

Luke 3:16: "John answered, 'I baptize you with water, but one who is more powerful than I will come after me; I am not worthy to untie his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.'"

 

[tylerbones1313]

So do those "spiritually baptized" get water baptized?

Yes

 

[turbosixx]

Luke 3:16: "John answered, 'I baptize you with water, but one who is more powerful than I will come after me; I am not worthy to untie his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.'"

I'm not sure if your are aware but baptized with the HS only happened twice?