How can one learn?

[Magenta]

we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Mat.9:38
Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

28 (More/Other) Things That God Wants You To Pray For source

1) Our enemies and those who persecute us (Matthew 5:44)

2) God's honor, God’s will and God’s Kingdom (Matthew 6:9-10, 33)

3) Daily bread, provision (Matthew 6:11, Luke 11:3, 3John 1:2)

4) Forgiveness of sin (Matthew 6:12, 1 John 1:9) including the sins of others (Luke 23:34, 1 John 5:16)

5) Escape from hard testing, affliction and temptation (Matthew 6:13, 24:20, 26:41 James 5:13)

6) The blessing of little children (Matthew 19:13)

7) Healing (James 5:14-16, Acts 9:40, 28:18)

8) Deliverance from evil spirits (Matthew 17:21, Mark 9:29)

9) Acts of power that will glorify God (James 5:16-18)

10) Wisdom (James 1:5-8)

11) For Christians to be filled with God’s love (John 17:26, Ephesians 3:14-21)

12) For believers to receive spiritual strength in the inner man (Ephesians 3:14-21, Colossians 1:9-12)

13) Spiritual understanding , revelation, knowledge of Christ (Ephesians 1:15-20, Philippians 1:9-11)

14) Knowledge of the will of God (Colossians 1:9-11, Philemon 1:4-6)

15) Impartation of the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13, Acts 8:15, 9:17) and spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 14:13)

16) The sanctification of believers (John 17:17-19)

17) That believers will 'do no evil' (2 Corinthians 13:7)

18) The perfection of believers (2 Corinthians 13:9, Colossians 4:12)

19) Fulfillment of the spiritual calling on a Church, with power (2 Thessalonians 1:11,12)

20) The unity of believers (John 17:20-23)

21) Opportunities for gospel ministry (Romans 1:10, Colossians 4:2-4, 2 Thessalonians 3:1)

22) Boldness in ministry (Acts 4:24-31, Ephesians 6:19)

23) Laborers for the Harvest (Matthew 9:38, Luke 10;2)

24) The selection of leaders to be sent out (Luke 6:12,13; Acts 13:1-4, 14:23)

25) Deliverance of God’s servants from danger (Acts 12:5, Romans 15:30,31; 2 Thessalonians 3:2)

26) The salvation of certain ethnic groups – such as the Jews (Romans 10:1)

27) The salvation of leaders and those in authority (1 Timothy 2:1-4)

28) What we need in order to glorify the Lord: Any ‘good thing’ / in Jesus’ Name / in accordance with
God’s will (Matthew 7:11, 21:21,22; Mark 11:24, John 14:13,14; 15;7,16; 16:23,24, 1 John 3:22, 5:14,15)

 

[Rainrider]

Excellent. And I appreciate the lengths you have gone to for us to arrive at this point.
So I am assuming the contradictory passage is Matthew 5:17-18. In what ways do you believe the other passages seem to contradict the original passage?

The way I laied it out is in groups. As for me there is no contradiction in the Word. The first set started with Mat.5:17-18, the second with Rom. 2:3 then Rom.6:15. The passages that follow those are ones that at times are misunderstood. how do we know this? The traditional teaching isn't in line with the ones that came before it.
As for Gal. 3:21 my intent, (though not stated) was to see if anyone really read the post.

 

[Rainrider]

28 (More/Other) Things That God Wants You To Pray For source

1) Our enemies and those who persecute us (Matthew 5:44)

2) God's honor, God’s will and God’s Kingdom (Matthew 6:9-10, 33)

3) Daily bread, provision (Matthew 6:11, Luke 11:3, 3John 1:2)

4) Forgiveness of sin (Matthew 6:12, 1 John 1:9) including the sins of others (Luke 23:34, 1 John 5:16)

5) Escape from hard testing, affliction and temptation (Matthew 6:13, 24:20, 26:41 James 5:13)

6) The blessing of little children (Matthew 19:13)

7) Healing (James 5:14-16, Acts 9:40, 28:18)

8) Deliverance from evil spirits (Matthew 17:21, Mark 9:29)

9) Acts of power that will glorify God (James 5:16-18)

10) Wisdom (James 1:5-8)

11) For Christians to be filled with God’s love (John 17:26, Ephesians 3:14-21)

12) For believers to receive spiritual strength in the inner man (Ephesians 3:14-21, Colossians 1:9-12)

13) Spiritual understanding , revelation, knowledge of Christ (Ephesians 1:15-20, Philippians 1:9-11)

14) Knowledge of the will of God (Colossians 1:9-11, Philemon 1:4-6)

15) Impartation of the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13, Acts 8:15, 9:17) and spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 14:13)

16) The sanctification of believers (John 17:17-19)

17) That believers will 'do no evil' (2 Corinthians 13:7)

18) The perfection of believers (2 Corinthians 13:9, Colossians 4:12)

19) Fulfillment of the spiritual calling on a Church, with power (2 Thessalonians 1:11,12)

20) The unity of believers (John 17:20-23)

21) Opportunities for gospel ministry (Romans 1:10, Colossians 4:2-4, 2 Thessalonians 3:1)

22) Boldness in ministry (Acts 4:24-31, Ephesians 6:19)

23) Laborers for the Harvest (Matthew 9:38, Luke 10;2)

24) The selection of leaders to be sent out (Luke 6:12,13; Acts 13:1-4, 14:23)

25) Deliverance of God’s servants from danger (Acts 12:5, Romans 15:30,31; 2 Thessalonians 3:2)

26) The salvation of certain ethnic groups – such as the Jews (Romans 10:1)

27) The salvation of leaders and those in authority (1 Timothy 2:1-4)

28) What we need in order to glorify the Lord: Any ‘good thing’ / in Jesus’ Name / in accordance with
God’s will (Matthew 7:11, 21:21,22; Mark 11:24, John 14:13,14; 15;7,16; 16:23,24, 1 John 3:22, 5:14,15)

Once again you got me. LOL Good on you. Although i was speaking of intentional prayer, for the things most may not even know is there. I do thank you though.

 

[Cameron143]

The way I laied it out is in groups. As for me there is no contradiction in the Word. The first set started with Mat.5:17-18, the second with Rom. 2:3 then Rom.6:15. The passages that follow those are ones that at times are misunderstood. how do we know this? The traditional teaching isn't in line with the ones that came before it.
As for Gal. 3:21 my intent, (though not stated) was to see if anyone really read the post.

I follow all that and everyone here believes the scripture to be true and not contradictory. The dissension comes from how to reconcile the "apparent" discrepancies.
And that's what I'm asking of you. What are the discrepancies, and how do you reconcile them?

 

[JimmyTheLock]

i was speaking of intentional prayer

Must get expensive to travel to far away countries just to pray!

 

[Nehemiah6]

we're not really having productive discussion.

Did you really expect that in this thread?

 

[Rainrider]

I follow all that and everyone here believes the scripture to be true and not contradictory. The dissension comes from how to reconcile the "apparent" discrepancies.
And that's what I'm asking of you. What are the discrepancies, and how do you reconcile them?

As I don't see any, I can't really answer that. So if you are just looking for me to give you a lesson, please follow my OFF SCRIPT post. It seem at lest in my mind you are unwilling to address the post, or unable. If either is true just say so.

 

[Rainrider]

Must get expensive to travel to far away countries just to pray!

WHAT EVER

 

[Rainrider]

Off script
In my last one, I addressed an unchanging HaShem through prophecy. As it was brought to my attention that some see HaShem of the O.T. as vengeful, intolerant, and get this racist, yet kind and caring in the N.T. This needs to be addressed. As it seems people in a face to face are just as unwilling, or unable to see through their own inability to understand what has been called the greatest love story of all time. They were unable to give an truly meaningful or Biblical backing to their claim. Yet stood firm in their thinking. I will never understand that.
However as best I could put together what they were trying to prove, then looking at Scripture to find any passage that might back their thinking in some strange way, this is the best I could do. So please over look the seeming confused way I work on this one.
As has became my habit over the years, I turn to HaShem to add my study. In doing so, we have put this together.
It seems that when HaShem order The People to take the land,
Deu 7:1¶When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
Deu 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
As it seems that some wish to say ,"See He is a racist" when they see this, lets take a look at it. As I am conviced their understanding is based more in how they see the world, and less on truth and reality.
So why did haShem say to do this?
Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
We do good to note here that HaShem may be giving the Amorites a chance to repent. Though the Word does state this flat out as I have, Knowing that HaShem really doesn't want to kill just for the sake of doing so, we find that HaShem most likly wanted this for them. One can read the book of Jonah and see that HaShem did in fact send a warning to Nineveh. From this we can assume He did the same for the people that were in the land at the time. At lest we can give Him the benifit of the doubt. After all, with the use common sense we do see that HaShem held off for a time. Long enough to make it clear they wouldn't change. You see by the plain text of the above, He was waiting for their sins to reach a point of no redemption. One can also look at Sodom, and Gomorrah. They were also judged for their sin. Although in that stroy, there is no indication of them being given time to change their ways. yet they were whipped off the face of earth so thoroughly, that even today one can only make an educated guess as to their location. Though sin is once more named as the reason. The flood, same reason. So one can safely say the price for their sin was paid in full. So has that changed in any way?
Has HaShem changed how He will deal with sinners?
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Doesn't seem that way.
As it seems that from start to finish HaShem hasn't changed in this regard, nor has He change in repect to prophecy. It would seem we are left with an Unchanging, steadfast, HaShem. Next time we will look at Salvation. HOw has that changed, or has it? Enjoy, and may HaShem use this work to shine light in places where we as humans seem a bit confused.

 

[Rainrider]

i read them.

when you said without the Law no one can kmow right from wrong, i pointed to Cain not having the law but knowing what he did was wrong. you said some believe Cain had the Law. i said certainly some people believe wrong things, but the fact is that the Bible specifically says the Law came 435 years after Abraham. you replied 'oh anyone who disagrees with you is wrong huh' so i pointed to the scripture again and said this isn't a matter of opinion. now you replied to that, saying i don't read your posts.

we're not really having productive discussion.
how can one learn?

By first not changing from I never said the law was removed, to hold up the law doesn't apply. It would also be helpful to stop making unfounded accusations. As I noted many of your post that do stand in conflict with pthers in post#345, I am going to once more show this with just 2 post.
You said in post #296
The Law is one law; not parts with various jots and tittles deleted. see James 2:10
Then in post #311 you said,
from this it is clear that the Law wasn't completely passed away yet by the time of the writing of Hebrews, which is before 70AD, around 50-60

It is hard to study with one that doesn't even follow their own teachings. Rather they change their teaching to fit what they think at the time. So to make this a bit more productive, I am done trying to keep with the way the wind is blowing from one of your post to the next. I will pray that you find a way to stay with just one teaching, and not jump from one side to the others.

 

[Cameron143]

As I don't see any, I can't really answer that. So if you are just looking for me to give you a lesson, please follow my OFF SCRIPT post. It seem at lest in my mind you are unwilling to address the post, or unable. If either is true just say so.

Let me rephrase. What do you believe is the "apparent" contradictions that others may have?
You are free not to answer or tell me my reading comprehension leaves something to be desired. I just find it easier to take a little information at a time rather than the whole at once. If you can strive with me because of my deficiency, it would be very appreciated.

 

[posthuman]

As I noted many of your post that do stand in conflict with pthers in post#345, I am going to once more show this with just 2 post.
You said in post #296
The Law is one law; not parts with various jots and tittles deleted. see James 2:10
Then in post #311 you said,
from this it is clear that the Law wasn't completely passed away yet by the time of the writing of Hebrews, which is before 70AD, around 50-60

these two things are not in conflict.

the Law is not broken into bits. you cannot delete some of it while leaving other parts of it. do you disagree?
Hebrews 8:13 speaks of the Sinai covenant and its law, saying that which is obsolete and waxing old will soon vanish. do you disagree?

what do you think is in conflict here?

 

[posthuman]

It is hard to study with one that doesn't even follow their own teachings. Rather they change their teaching to fit what they think at the time.

• the Law is not divisible into jots and tittles that can be deleted while other parts remain.
• at the time of the writing of the epistle to the Hebrews, the covenant with Israel and its law was still in place

i see no 'change in what i say' here at all.
i have no idea why you think these two statements conflict with each other.

• the Christian is not under the law of the Sinai covenant. we have died as far as it is concerned, so it has no jurisdiction over us.
  • Romans 6-7 makes this abundantly clear, and that is not the only passage that says so
• no law has to be 'removed' in order for that law not to apply to a dead man.

there is no conflict here either.
i have not 'changed my story' in this thread on these things, either.

i have no idea why you find this difficult to understand or accept.

clearly you reject what the Bible says about Christians not being under the Sinai covenant law.
but your unbelief doesn't mean that i have been inconsistent in my argument.

 

[posthuman]

The first set started with Mat.5:17-18, the second with Rom. 2:3 then Rom.6:15.

can't get from Romans 2:13 to Romans 6:15 without passing through Romans 3:9-20, bro.

 

[Dino246]

Must get expensive to travel to far away countries just to pray!

I hope you have seen your error, and understand the vast semantic gulf between "intentional" and "international".

 

[JimmyTheLock]

I hope you have seen your error, and understand the vast semantic gulf between "intentional" and "international".

Well, I didn't expect you to have a sense of humor... so never mind than

 

[posthuman]

One can read the book of Jonah and see that HaShem did in fact send a warning to Nineveh. From this we can assume He did the same for the people that were in the land at the time.

yup.

Joshua 2:8-11​

Now before they lay down, she came up to them on the roof, and said to the men: ​

"I know that the LORD has given you the land, that the terror of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land are fainthearted because of you. For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea for you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who [were] on the other side of the Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed. And as soon as we heard [these things,] our hearts melted; neither did there remain any more courage in anyone because of you, for the LORD your God, He [is] God in heaven above and on earth beneath.​

​

this is why one must never, ever kill Gideonites!

 

[Rainrider]

Let me rephrase. What do you believe is the "apparent" contradictions that others may have?
You are free not to answer or tell me my reading comprehension leaves something to be desired. I just find it easier to take a little information at a time rather than the whole at once. If you can strive with me because of my deficiency, it would be very appreciated.

I have no problem going slow. After all, if one can't do what is needed to help another understand, they really don't need to try and say they walk after the manner of HaShem, or by the example of Yeshua.
As some wish to push teh idea that the law is not valid for them, they over look that the passages they use to try and show this, Paul is their go to, the same writer also has said the law is valid. In this act they, with out knowing it, they paint Paul as hypocrite. In that Paul does say the Law is good, and even says that God forbid we make void the Law. Please see, Rom.3:31. If you would like I can go back and address that post. Let me know if that will help.

 

[Rainrider]

these two things are not in conflict.

the Law is not broken into bits. you cannot delete some of it while leaving other parts of it. do you disagree?
Hebrews 8:13 speaks of the Sinai covenant and its law, saying that which is obsolete and waxing old will soon vanish. do you disagree?

what do you think is in conflict here?

You said in post #296
The Law is one law; not parts with various jots and tittles deleted. see James 2:10
Here you make clear that the law doesn't have any part removed. Yet you follow that with the idea that some of it has been removed. You can't have it both ways. As you do this a lot, and I have only used a small percent of them to try and make it clear, I will say I am done with even trying to make any sense of what you say. Now I will repeat myself one last time. I know I may not have everything right. NOONE can say that when being 100% honest. However I know that you have lost all cedablilty in my mind. As such, there is no way you can ever teach me anything, and I do feel any that may listen to, and follow your teachings. They will find that they also don't really understand the Word. With that I am done. say what you wish, HaShem knows my heart, and I am sure He will see my reasoning as sound.

 

[Cameron143]

I have no problem going slow. After all, if one can't do what is needed to help another understand, they really don't need to try and say they walk after the manner of HaShem, or by the example of Yeshua.
As some wish to push teh idea that the law is not valid for them, they over look that the passages they use to try and show this, Paul is their go to, the same writer also has said the law is valid. In this act they, with out knowing it, they paint Paul as hypocrite. In that Paul does say the Law is good, and even says that God forbid we make void the Law. Please see, Rom.3:31. If you would like I can go back and address that post. Let me know if that will help.

It says the law is not made void by faith, but establishes it. So what does it mean that the law is not made void? Can others things void the law? What does it mean to establish the law? In what ways does faith establish the law?