Works Complete Faith?

[romans113336]

I would have to know exactly what that is before I'd devote all my faith to it.

I mean "Christianity is a set of doctrines--there are varying degrees of observance of those doctrines, in part, because there are varying degrees of comprehension of those doctrines".

 

[romans113336]

I'm getting bored. We're really off on a tangent.

 

[romans113336]

I would have to know exactly what that is before I'd devote all my faith to it.

I'm NOT "Eastern Orthodox".
I mean... there are correct (Orthodox) and incorrect (Heterodox) views one can have about the reality of Christianity, and there're consequences to wrong beliefs.

 

[Mem]

I'm well aware of that, I think the consequences are a disturbance in the 'peace that is beyond understanding.'

consider my interjection an intermission, luvies and gentlemen, and have a good night. God bless.

 

[romans113336]

I'm well aware of that, I think the consequences are a disturbance in the 'peace that is beyond understanding.'

consider my interjection an intermission, luvies and gentlemen, and have a good night. God bless.

Above all the exactitudes, including "works complete faith", I think you're right.

 

[Truthnightmare]

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

But without faith it is impossible to please him….

So to please the Lord we need faith, but if faith without acts is dead, then how can you please the Lord without acts?

 

[Mem]

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

But without faith it is impossible to please him….

So to please the Lord we need faith, but if faith without acts is dead, then how can you please the Lord without acts?

Waiting on the Lord, faithfully, is a work in itself. isn't it? In fact, it's rather laborious for me

 

[Mem]

...and so is sleep, ugh. which I needs be getting. this time for real! 'nite.

 

[selahsays]

Selah > In Ephesians 1:1, we read, “to the saints” and “to the faithful in Christ Jesus.”

Then in 1:2, “Grace be to you,” referring to God’s free gift of GRACE.

In 1:4, talking to the saints > “chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and without blame.”

“In the Bible, the word “saints” refers to holy people — holy, however, not primarily in the moral sense, but in the sense of being specially marked out as God's people.”

 

[mailmandan]

Selah > In Ephesians 1:1, we read, “to the saints” and “to the faithful in Christ Jesus.”

Then in 1:2, “Grace be to you,” referring to God’s free gift of GRACE.

In 1:4, talking to the saints > “chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and without blame.”

“In the Bible, the word “saints” refers to holy people — holy, however, not primarily in the moral sense, but in the sense of being specially marked out as God's people.”

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

 

[selahsays]

If it is true that we can't be saved by our works we and also true that our salvation can be lost by our works, then it seems that the cards are stacked against us.

… but a “saint” will not (habitually) sin and if he does, he will repent and ask God to forgive him, and God promises that He will.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

- 1 John 1:9 (KJV)

 

[Truthnightmare]

Waiting on the Lord, faithfully, is a work in itself. isn't it? In fact, it's rather laborious for me

Indeed that can be so, but we must ask ourselves, does waiting on the Lord produce fruit.
It would seem that without work, one cannot produce, and if you don’t produce….
Matthew 7
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. “Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

 

[Mem]

Indeed that can be so, but we must ask ourselves, does waiting on the Lord produce fruit.
It would seem that without work, one cannot produce, and if you don’t produce….
Matthew 7
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. “Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Yes, the context of the cited verse is differentiating good fruit from bad fruit, so there's good fruit and also bad fruit, and you will know them according to the fruit. If a tree does not bear fruit, that is bearing bad fruit, it is that tree that shall be cut down.

And you will likely think of the tree that Jesus withered to its roots that bore no fruit at all as an example of trees bearing no fruit at all, but I gather that is just another 'variety' of bad fruit.

 

[Mem]

Yes, the context of the cited verse is differentiating good fruit from bad fruit, so there's good fruit and also bad fruit, and you will know them according to the fruit. If a tree does not bear fruit, that is bearing bad fruit, it is that tree that shall be cut down.

And you will likely think of the tree that Jesus withered to its roots that bore no fruit at all as an example of trees bearing no fruit at all, but I gather that is just another 'variety' of bad fruit.

I'm wondering...
so I'll take you along with me as I consider...
If a tree bears no fruit at all, even though it is growing beside the river, I wonder that it is not connected to The Root at all, and so will wither to its roots...
And the tree that bears bad fruit, though it is connected to The Root (naturally), it's fruit is bad because it's fruit is of the 'natural' variety, and something is missing...
So, the tree that bears good fruit, is connected to The Root, whether naturally or it is grafted in, and bears good fruit because it is injected with the 'preferred' (gene?), the Spirit, an is so made 'perfect' fruit....

certainly, the spirit by which a work is done determines the degree of its goodness

 

[Truthnightmare]

Yes, the context of the cited verse is differentiating good fruit from bad fruit, so there's good fruit and also bad fruit, and you will know them according to the fruit. If a tree does not bear fruit, that is bearing bad fruit, it is that tree that shall be cut down.

And you will likely think of the tree that Jesus withered to its roots that bore no fruit at all as an example of trees bearing no fruit at all, but I gather that is just another 'variety' of bad fruit.

And you will likely think of the tree that Jesus withered to its roots that bore no fruit at all as an example of trees bearing no fruit at all,

Trees and figs…

The tree that withered away was a fig tree.
Mark 11:21 "And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto Him, "Master, behold, the fig tree which Thou cursedst is withered away."

Satan is referred to as a tree, Adam and Eve covered themself with fig leaves. We maybe living in the generation of the fig tree.

There is much revealed here.

 

[Mem]

Trees and figs…

The tree that withered away was a fig tree.
Mark 11:21 "And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto Him, "Master, behold, the fig tree which Thou cursedst is withered away."

Satan is referred to as a tree, Adam and Eve covered themself with fig leaves. We maybe living in the generation of the fig tree.

There is much revealed here.

and "he has nothing in me." something like that.

...still meditating on the train of thought while tidying up, it occurred to me how that works, done by the Spirit, come more 'naturally' (supernaturally?) to us than works done by the flesh.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

"Faith with out works is dead", is kind of a diagnostic tool. Faith necessarily produces works particularly the the fruit of the Spirit; all of these outward signs of a Spirit filled person. Doing works howeber does not mean that faith is there. Jesus said, that many will come to him saying Lord Lord and He will tell them to go away, and they will point to their works, and Jesus will tell them, I never knew you, and calls them workers of iniquity.
One's faith may be in works which is in sufficient for salvation. But if one has faith in Christ he will be recognizable to the bretheren due to what faith produces in a person

 

[Truthnightmare]

and "he has nothing in me." something like that.

...still meditating on the train of thought while tidying up, it occurred to me how that works, done by the Spirit, come more 'naturally' (supernaturally?) to us than works done by the flesh.

"Faith with out works is dead", is kind of a diagnostic tool. Faith necessarily produces works particularly the the fruit of the Spirit; all of these outward signs of a Spirit filled person. Doing works howeber does not mean that faith is there. Jesus said, that many will come to him saying Lord Lord and He will tell them to go away, and they will point to their works, and Jesus will tell them, I never knew you, and calls them workers of iniquity.
One's faith may be in works which is in sufficient for salvation. But if one has faith in Christ he will be recognizable to the bretheren due to what faith produces in a person

Greeting…
You stated…

Faith with out works is dead", is kind of a diagnostic tool. Faith necessarily produces works particularly the the fruit of the Spirit; all of these outward signs of a Spirit filled person. Doing works howeber does not mean that faith is there.

I see it in the opposite….
Faith doesn’t produce works… Anyone can lay on the couch and claim they believe in Jesus, and maybe they do. But this only faith.

Now if I see a person out there feeding the homeless, visiting widows, I know they believe in Jesus. And this person has faith and works, not just couch faith.

There are 2 things we mush have, faith and works.
If you show me your faith, I will then need to see your works.
But… If you show me your works, I have seen your faith.

James 2
You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

 

[evyaniy]

John 15

1 “I am the True Vine, and My Father is the Farmer. 2 Every branch in Me that doesn’t bear fruit, He takes away. Every branch that bears fruit, He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already pruned clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in Me, and I in you. As the branch can’t bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the Vine, so neither can you, unless you remain in Me.

1 Corinthians 11

23 For I received from the Adonai that which also I delivered to you, that the Adonai Yeshua on the night in which He was betrayed took bread. 24 When He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat. This is My body, which is broken for you. Do this in memory of Me.” 25 In the same way He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new Covenant in My blood. Do this, as often as you drink, in memory of Me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Adonai’s death until He comes.
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks the Adonai’s cup in a way unworthy of the Adonai will be guilty of the body and the blood of the Adonai. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy way eats and drinks judgment to himself if he doesn’t discern the Adonai’s body. 30 For this cause many among you are weak and sickly, and not a few sleep. 31 For if we discerned ourselves, we wouldn’t be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Adonai, that we may not be condemned with the world.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I see it in the opposite….
Faith doesn’t produce works… Anyone can lay on the couch and claim they believe in Jesus, and maybe they do. But this only faith.

Scripture sees it different, which is what James is talking about. That faith produces works.

Now if I see a person out there feeding the homeless, visiting widows, I know they believe in Jesus. And this person has faith and works, not just couch faith.

Muslims also do this, and pagans as well. Back when I was running with some rough folks we did numerous charitable things.

There are 2 things we mush have, faith and works.
If you show me your faith, I will then need to see your works.
But… If you show me your works, I have seen your faith.

As I said many heathens do charitable works.
Also Jesus said go away you worker of iniquity.

James 2
You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

James was making a good point, that faith can not be shown except by the works that it produces.