Subtle deception

[wattie]

Another common thing people say.. is when Jesus does things and does it by the authority of the Father.. they go to the conclusion Jesus is lesser.

The thing with this though, is Jesus at times in the bible does things that are equal to the Father's ability. Such as being able to see Phillip, when He wasn't physically present with Phillip, claiming to give eternal life and claiming to forgive sin.

The other thing is .. the Jewish concept of agency. So if Jesus does things 'by the hand of the Father' and such like.. the concept states that agent of another is 'as the man himself'. So Jesus doing the Father's Will.. 'by the hand of the Father'.. is 'as the Father'

 

[Magenta]

Psalm 62:1-2; Acts 4:12; Philippians 2:9

 

[JacobMartinMertens]

A very pernicious and damaging doctrine gaining popularity at the moment is saying Jesus is lesser than the Father.

This attacks the heart of salvation through Jesus Christ as God and Saviour.

Your thoughts?

(I know this has been addressed before but I thought the need to highlight it again)

You should accept the Bible and be willing to look at the translations.

However, to answer your question more directly, there is a verse where Jesus says, "The Father is greater than I.". I don't know, but maybe that is where it comes from.

Sincerely,

Jacob

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Another common thing people say.. is when Jesus does things and does it by the authority of the Father.. they go to the conclusion Jesus is lesser.

The thing with this though, is Jesus at times in the bible does things that are equal to the Father's ability. Such as being able to see Phillip, when He wasn't physically present with Phillip, claiming to give eternal life and claiming to forgive sin.

The other thing is .. the Jewish concept of agency. So if Jesus does things 'by the hand of the Father' and such like.. the concept states that agent of another is 'as the man himself'. So Jesus doing the Father's Will.. 'by the hand of the Father'.. is 'as the Father'

I agree. They are not of us, though they claim to be. They are false

 

[wattie]

You should accept the Bible and be willing to look at the translations.

However, to answer your question more directly, there is a verse where Jesus says, "The Father is greater than I.". I don't know, but maybe that is where it comes from.

Sincerely,

Jacob

Yes ... see above post... the Father is greater is a reference to the Father being in a greater position in heaven. This changed not long after when Jesus ascended

 

[JacobMartinMertens]

Yes ... see above post... the Father is greater is a reference to the Father being in a greater position in heaven. This changed not long after when Jesus ascended

This might help you. Let me know if it does. That is, if you want to do so.

John 3:13 NASB20 - "No one has ascended into heaven, except He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

Ephesians 4:9-10 NASB20 - (Now this [expression,] "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)

John 17:5 NASB20 - "And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed.

 

[Nehemiah6]

As soon as they see that Jesus can give eternal life, it should prompt them to think He is fully God imo

Take that one step further .
JESUS IS ETERNAL LIFE. That is exactly what the Bible reveals.

 

[evyaniy]

Take that one step further .
JESUS IS ETERNAL LIFE. That is exactly what the Bible reveals.

Yes. His Name means it as well. YAH means Eternal and Shua means Salvation. So His Name means Eternal Salvation or Eternal Life as well as YAH is Salvation.

 

[wattie]

This might help you. Let me know if it does. That is, if you want to do so.

John 3:13 NASB20 - "No one has ascended into heaven, except He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

Ephesians 4:9-10 NASB20 - (Now this [expression,] "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)

John 17:5 NASB20 - "And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed.

Yes these are some of the verses showing how Jesus in his humanity was in a different position to the Father and then ascended to be one with the Father, thanks .

 

[wattie]

Oh Jacob was banned... I think we are weeding them out! 😊

 

[Truthnightmare]

Yes these are some of the verses showing how Jesus in his humanity was in a different position to the Father and then ascended to be one with the Father, thanks .

When you say one with the father.
How do you define one?

 

[evyaniy]

Why do we have to define it? To have another go round? Why not go back and read the many previous threads on the subject? Why does it have to be about challenging other people's beliefs?

 

[Truthnightmare]

Why do we have to define it? To have another go round? Why not go back and read the many previous threads on the subject? Why does it have to be about challenging other people's beliefs?

Not at all… I don’t believe I’ve spoken to wattie… I’ve received many of opinions on topics, things I would have never considered.

 

[evyaniy]

Not at all… I don’t believe I’ve spoken to wattie… I’ve received many of opinions on topics, things I would have never considered.

There are many excellent threads on the subject. If you are interested you could start there. Or read some systematic Theologies to see what they say. If you find excellent information you could share it with us. what is with all the challenging?

Like the thread someone new user created about what is the IT in It is Finished. And then after a couple days and lots of replies makes a second post to tell everyone they are wrong. Yea. That is real helpful and considerate.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Why do we have to define it? To have another go round? Why not go back and read the many previous threads on the subject? Why does it have to be about challenging other people's beliefs?

When we get heaven is there going to be two beings? Father and son… Or just one Almighty being? Heck…. I don’t know. It would be silly to challenge someone on what they believe concerning a topic where I don’t even know what I believe.

 

[evyaniy]

When we get heaven is there going to be two beings? Father and son… Or just one Almighty being? Heck…. I don’t know. It would be silly to challenge someone on what they believe concerning a topic where I don’t even know what I believe.

We know there is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. How that will look in Heaven we will have to wait and see but it is sure to be mind blowing no matter how it appears. One thing we know is He loves color and has infused it throughout His creation. He also loves music and joy. And He loves love. It will be more than we could ever imagine.

 

[Truthnightmare]

There are many excellent threads on the subject. If you are interested you could start there. Or read some systematic Theologies to see what they say. If you find excellent information you could share it with us. what is with all the challenging?

Like the thread someone new user created about what is the IT in It is Finished. And then after a couple days and lots of replies makes a second post to tell everyone they are wrong. Yea. That is real helpful and considerate.

We know there is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. How that will look in Heaven we will have to wait and see but it is sure to be mind blowing no matter how it appears. One thing we know is He loves color and has infused it throughout His creation. He also loves music and joy. And He loves love. It will be more than we could ever imagine.

How that will look in Heaven we will have to wait and see

Who is we?
I might have to wait, but I’m not willing to say just because I don’t have the answer, no one else does.. That’s why I ask questions.

 

[evyaniy]

We is believers in the Son and that the Father raised Him to life again after He offered His life as a Sacrifice for sins to save us.

You are well versed. Read many of your posts and being able to debate with the best. It is not about debating though like there is something to prove or to upset other people's faith. If you have things that are helpful to others and a clearer understanding of Scripture then please share it.

There has been a steady stream of posters that have been calling the Divinity of the Son into question. What does that accomplish besides hurting other people and their faith? Why is it so important to these individuals to question the Eternalness and Divinity of the Son? It makes no sense whatsoever. They are free to have those beliefs but they do not have to push them on others like it is their mission with some kind of benevolent purpose.

 

[wattie]

When you say one with the father.
How do you define one?

The same essence. The one being ..God .. in the three persons. Although God isn't just an essence.

 

[Keris]

We is believers in the Son and that the Father raised Him to life again after He offered His life as a Sacrifice for sins to save us.

You are well versed. Read many of your posts and being able to debate with the best. It is not about debating though like there is something to prove or to upset other people's faith. If you have things that are helpful to others and a clearer understanding of Scripture then please share it.

There has been a steady stream of posters that have been calling the Divinity of the Son into question. What does that accomplish besides hurting other people and their faith? Why is it so important to these individuals to question the Eternalness and Divinity of the Son? It makes no sense whatsoever. They are free to have those beliefs but they do not have to push them on others like it is their mission with some kind of benevolent purpose.

In my opinion it does 'make sense' to question the divinity of Christ.
It allows you to not have to worship Him and to be free to turn Christianity into a theoretical exercise where you can theorise and seek to win arguments with those that think differently. 😭

I find it hard to believe that anyone who truly worships Jesus as their Creator and Saviour could find satisfaction in pointless arguing with others and in going round and round in circles.

It seems a waste of time to me, time that is better spent worshipping God and allowing Him to use us as His hands and feet in this needy world.