Works Complete Faith?
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I'll tell you this: it's by grace through faith alone that God freed me from bondage to sin.
There is no way I could do the good works in my own strength.
Yet I was called on to appropriate the grace. I had it, I had just not applied it.
So many people claim to have grace, yet they're in bondage to serious sins like visiting "strange" websites.
The statistic is something like 90% of the men in Church are in bondage that way.
Then they tell themselves, "Faith alone--God forgives me."
Where is the grace in their WALK?
Christ didn't give us grace so we could wallow in sin, defeated, desecrating His Name!
Grace DESTROYS the works of the devil!!!!!!!!
There is no way I could do the good works in my own strength.
Yet I was called on to appropriate the grace. I had it, I had just not applied it.
So many people claim to have grace, yet they're in bondage to serious sins like visiting "strange" websites.
The statistic is something like 90% of the men in Church are in bondage that way.
Then they tell themselves, "Faith alone--God forgives me."
Where is the grace in their WALK?
Christ didn't give us grace so we could wallow in sin, defeated, desecrating His Name!
Grace DESTROYS the works of the devil!!!!!!!!
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2 Peter 1
2 Grace to you and peace be multiplied in the knowledge of EL and of Yeshua our Adonai, 3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and virtue, 4 by which He has granted to us his precious and exceedingly great promises; that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust. 5 Yes, and for this very cause adding on your part all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence; and in moral excellence, knowledge; 6 and in knowledge, self-control; and in self-control, perseverance; and in perseverance, godliness; 7 and in godliness, brotherly affection; and in brotherly affection, love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to not be idle or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Adonai Yeshua the Messiah. 9 For he who lacks these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brothers, be more diligent to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never stumble. 11 For thus you will be richly supplied with the entrance into the eternal Kingdom of our Adonai and Savior, Yeshua the Messiah.
2 Grace to you and peace be multiplied in the knowledge of EL and of Yeshua our Adonai, 3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and virtue, 4 by which He has granted to us his precious and exceedingly great promises; that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust. 5 Yes, and for this very cause adding on your part all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence; and in moral excellence, knowledge; 6 and in knowledge, self-control; and in self-control, perseverance; and in perseverance, godliness; 7 and in godliness, brotherly affection; and in brotherly affection, love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to not be idle or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Adonai Yeshua the Messiah. 9 For he who lacks these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brothers, be more diligent to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never stumble. 11 For thus you will be richly supplied with the entrance into the eternal Kingdom of our Adonai and Savior, Yeshua the Messiah.
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Well, the focus of this thread is a conversation about justification--NOW, ONGOING, and FINAL--and how good works come in to play.
We ALL agree good works are good, but we are discussing their place, their significance, and how they do or don't affect justification--not merely that they are "good". That is uncontroversial. I'm sure every person here would agree with you and your passages on that. Even an unbelieving Jew or Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu or Shintoist would agree.
We ALL agree good works are good, but we are discussing their place, their significance, and how they do or don't affect justification--not merely that they are "good". That is uncontroversial. I'm sure every person here would agree with you and your passages on that. Even an unbelieving Jew or Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu or Shintoist would agree.
I'm just saying I feel bad for them, and I wish better for them--and it's SUPER EASY to defeat that sin, by grace through faith!
Paul said his life of abundant labors was by grace through faith!
1 Corinthians 15
10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.
We ought to be doing the same if we really have the grace we say we have!
Paul said his life of abundant labors was by grace through faith!
1 Corinthians 15
10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.
We ought to be doing the same if we really have the grace we say we have!
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Romans 4
1 What then will we say that Abraham, our forefather, has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not toward EL. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed EL, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the reward is not counted as grace, but as something owed. 5 But to him who doesn’t work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounces blessing on the man to whom EL counts righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man whom the Adonai will by no means charge with sin.”
1 What then will we say that Abraham, our forefather, has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not toward EL. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed EL, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the reward is not counted as grace, but as something owed. 5 But to him who doesn’t work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounces blessing on the man to whom EL counts righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man whom the Adonai will by no means charge with sin.”
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Ephesians 2
4 But EL, being rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Messiah—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with Him, and made us to sit with Him in the heavenly places in Messiah Yeshua, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Messiah Yeshua; 8 for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of EL, 9 not of works, that no one would boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Messiah Yeshua for good works, which EL prepared before that we would walk in them.
4 But EL, being rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Messiah—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with Him, and made us to sit with Him in the heavenly places in Messiah Yeshua, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Messiah Yeshua; 8 for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of EL, 9 not of works, that no one would boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Messiah Yeshua for good works, which EL prepared before that we would walk in them.
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Colossians 1
9 For this cause, we also, since the day we heard this, don’t cease praying and making requests for you, that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 that you may walk worthily of the Adonai, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of EL, 11 strengthened with all power, according to the might of His glory, for all endurance and perseverance with joy, 12 giving thanks to the Father, Who made us fit to be partakers of the inheritance of the holy ones in light, 13 Who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the Kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in Whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins.
9 For this cause, we also, since the day we heard this, don’t cease praying and making requests for you, that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 that you may walk worthily of the Adonai, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of EL, 11 strengthened with all power, according to the might of His glory, for all endurance and perseverance with joy, 12 giving thanks to the Father, Who made us fit to be partakers of the inheritance of the holy ones in light, 13 Who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the Kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in Whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins.
How could "works" of men have anything to do with a gracious free gift from God? Let alone pay in the least bit for this gift that has infinite value. And a gift that has already been paid for fully by the only Person who could possibly pay for it? And a gift that we are commanded to receive without price or cost by simply reaching out with the hand of faith and grasping it?
Absolutely nothing that's what.
Your pay-as-you-go plan is going to fail miserably.
Absolutely nothing that's what.
Your pay-as-you-go plan is going to fail miserably.
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Maybe you could have called the thread Works are evidence of Faith.
Romans 4 is clear that Justification is by Grace through Faith in the Son for the forgiveness of sins. Good works are the result but believers still decide how much effort they exert in doing good works and will receive reward or loss for their works or lack thereof.
Romans 4 is clear that Justification is by Grace through Faith in the Son for the forgiveness of sins. Good works are the result but believers still decide how much effort they exert in doing good works and will receive reward or loss for their works or lack thereof.
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Except Romans 8:4 states,
"... that the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF the law might be fulfilled IN us [note it does not say "BY us"
] who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit".
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Not sure how you can say what you are saying about Romans 7, when Paul STARTS OUT that section (in vv.1-4), by saying,
1Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead [/have been put to death] to the law by [by means of] the body of Christ; that [for / eis] ye should be married [/joined] to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that [SO THAT] we should bring forth fruit unto God.
"... that the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF the law might be fulfilled IN us [note it does not say "BY us"
] who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit".____________
Not sure how you can say what you are saying about Romans 7, when Paul STARTS OUT that section (in vv.1-4), by saying,
1Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead [/have been put to death] to the law by [by means of] the body of Christ; that [for / eis] ye should be married [/joined] to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that [SO THAT] we should bring forth fruit unto God.
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