Following the Pastor

[montana123]

In the church I attend people seem to follow the pastor as if his word is law. I seem to be the odd one out to think of him as another person who can be wrong and make mistakes.

I just want to ask. am I wrong for not putting him on a pedestal, what level of respect should we have for the pastor of a church

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

The preacher is to help the saints to better understand the word of God if they need it, and to inform them of things they might not have encountered yet concerning the word of God.

But the preacher does not get wisdom, and understanding of God's word any more than the common pew sitter.

God gives to all people that same amount of wisdom, and understanding that asks for it.

We allow the Spirit to teach us, and when they speak of the word of God to search the scriptures to see if they are telling the truth.

Study the word of God so you will have a better understanding of the truth.

I read through the Bible so it is an advantage because you can see the bigger picture, and the theme of the Bible on doctrines.

Too many people go by the blueprint the denomination lays down as their beliefs, and will not check in to it, and they do not see the contradictions in the Bible, and red flags do not come up.

They will try to fit scriptures in to the beliefs of the denomination.

Which you can show some people scriptures that plainly state something and they will not believe it because they are going by the perception of the denomination.

And it seems like some people like that there is different denominations which is out of arrogance so they can say out of all the denominations that say they have the truth we have the truth, we are the champions, we are the winners.

Because they love to argue that they are right and you are wrong, and be sarcastic with arrogance.

It is not wrong to think the preacher is wrong on a subject for there are different denominations that will say different things so it is no wonder they can be wrong.

Even though I read through the Bible I might be wrong on a subject, but it will be lessened as I can see scriptures that go together for a better understanding, and scriptures that contradict what I thought was right.

Also when we are new to Christianity we might be hasty to say something without looking in to it, and sometimes even when we are not new.

Listen to the preacher but check in to it because we should not take anyone's word for it which is they the Bible says when they tell you the word search the scriptures even Paul when he said something it is still recommended for it is a good habit to have, and shows you are willing to seek truth.

 

[Edify]

honestly myself and my wife have talked about walking out so many times. but we are so involved in ministry that we dont feel we can just leave. and there are so few people to take up those ministrys.

even with how much we contribute we are dismissed and disrespected.
it is not about recognition or ego. just a basic level of decency.

You're not alone. There are so many all over the world who are feeling what you feel. I am one of them.
This is why:
1Tim 3:1It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of [a]overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, [c]temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, skillful in teaching, 3not overindulging in wine, not [d]a bully, but gentle, not contentious, free from the love of money. 4He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5(but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited(puffed up with pride) and fall into condemnation [e]incurred by the devil. 7And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into [f]disgrace and the snare of the devil.
It is usually V6 that causes the breaking of all the other verses.
Generally speaking, it's the last couple of generations of pastors that are leading their congregations faster downhill in the Falling Away.

There has become a new division in the church: the true church is feeling the Spirit pulling them out & away so that God can continue with the apostates coming judgment. I know that sounds harsh, but many don't know of the "little things" happening in the churches, the "little foxes" thay are spoiling the vine.

It may be that true believers will once again have to go to house churches to separate themselves.

This is the decision of many to make today: to come out from among them & be separate, not compromising with their evil ways.

Whatever you do, DO NOT COMPROMISE!

 

[posthuman]

Thank you all for your replies.
I can understand that respecting his spiritual authority is one thing.
but this is less about his teaching and more about other things which go on

without saying anything too specific. absolutely anything currently going on in the church people see the pastors word as law
my wife is the safeguarding officer and when she tries to point out a health and safety issue all the other people in the church can say is "The Pastor says it fine", without actually thinking it through themselves.

if he says it they follow it without question

being a pastor doesn't make a person an electrician or a cook or an engineer or a doctor or anything else.

it doesn't even make a person a good teacher - pastoring isn't the same thing as teaching. it doesn't mean they are necessarily wiser or more holy; it means they are good at 'shepherding'

there's a reason we are a body, each having different strengths and weaknesses. Any good leader should understand when to find & hear experts to make decisions.

 

[Edify]

This right here is one of the main reasons I quit going to church.

I hear you, really I do. But leaving church altogether is not the answer.
True believers cannot be islands... we can't make it on our own.
How could we bear one another's burdens, fulfilling the law of Christ? (Galatians 6:2)
Yes, you may do good things here, but CC isn't a church.
We've disagreed many times, but believe me this time, you'll never make it on your own.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I hear you, really I do. But leaving church altogether is not the answer.

Never said was. But leaving behind those who are merely playing church is fine.

 

[Edify]

Never said was. But leaving behind those who are merely playing church is fine.

So are you looking for a church right now?

 

[ResidentAlien]

So are you looking for a church right now?

Define "church?"

 

[Edify]

Define "church?"

You of all people know that already. There are sinners that know the answer to that.

 

[ResidentAlien]

You of all people know that already. There are sinners that know the answer to that.

I know what I understand to be the church. But you asked the question so I can't answer unless I know what you mean by it.

 

[posthuman]

Never said was. But leaving behind those who are merely playing church is fine.

i think CC and other online communities like us have been the fallback position for a lot of people in the same boat as you.

 

[Edify]

I know what I understand to be the church.

Well, then, tell us what you understand it to be & answer my question in the way you understand it to be.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Well, then, tell us what you understand it to be & answer my question in the way you understand it to be.

Later dude.

 

[romans113336]

Thank you all for your replies.
I can understand that respecting his spiritual authority is one thing.
but this is less about his teaching and more about other things which go on

without saying anything too specific. absolutely anything currently going on in the church people see the pastors word as law
my wife is the safeguarding officer and when she tries to point out a health and safety issue all the other people in the church can say is "The Pastor says it fine", without actually thinking it through themselves.

if he says it they follow it without question

Sounds cultish. I wouldn't want to go to such a church.

 

[hornetguy]

Define "church?"

a body of believers that meet together physically for mutual edification, worship....

 

[Edify]

Later dude.

I guess I got my answer.

 

[Blade]

In the church I attend people seem to follow the pastor as if his word is law. I seem to be the odd one out to think of him as another person who can be wrong and make mistakes.

I just want to ask. am I wrong for not putting him on a pedestal, what level of respect should we have for the pastor of a church

Maybe define what you mean by "pedestal". Read the posts about Pastors I am reminded of "Despite me answering the first 9 questions correctly, no one congratulated me. Instead, when I got one wrong, everyone started laughing. This means that despite being very successful, society will only notice the smallest mistake and make fun of it. Don't let simple criticism destroy your dreams " Believers treat there family no different.

Pastor was put over the sheep by God. There is no believer that has ever lived that didn't need someone over him. With out that we can very easily be deceived. So not sure how high you are putting this pastor lol. I would never look at what a pastor says as law. In that Church I went to that GOD wanted me to go to I would by myself under him. Do we need Churches today? Look at the world how is it going or progressing? Things that were only done in secret are not done openly for children to see and crime is growing etc. Now look at the Church. So seems the Church over all is not growing and sin in the world is.

You and I need others around use and they need us around them. We were given something by a GOD that helps them. We can keep it to our selfs or give it away to help others and GOD? He will never go against our will. Just saying we need pastors, preachers, prophets, Apostles. Remember God never changes.. we do.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

without saying anything too specific. absolutely anything currently going on in the church people see the pastors word as law
my wife is the safeguarding officer and when she tries to point out a health and safety issue all the other people in the church can say is "The Pastor says it fine", without actually thinking it through themselves.

if he says it they follow it without question

According to Ephesians 4, the Lord Jesus Christ, as Head over all things to the church, the one body of which He is the Head, gave gifts to His people:

Ephesians 4:7-8 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.


The purpose of the ministries within the church:

Ephesians 4:

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting [Greek katartismós], of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

The word "perfecting" in vs 12 is translated from the Greek word katartismós, which means complete furnishing, equipping ... so believers mature to the point where we aren't tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.

katartismós – exact adjustment which enables the individual parts to work together in correct order (HELPS Word-studies)

How many people sitting in churches today really contemplate what is being taught in church? Do we search the scriptures daily, whether the things being taught in church are truth (Acts 17:11)?


As far as your wife in her position as safeguarding officer, if/when she sees activity which causes her concern, it appears she is told "The Pastor says it fine" ... probably by the folks engaging in the activity which concerns her. Did pastor really say it's fine? ... or is that what she is being told by folks who don't want to stop whatever it is they're doing?

Does she follow up with the pastor to find out if it's really something that's okay? ... and if the pastor did say okay, if she discusses her concerns with pastor, maybe pastor will come to the same conclusion as your wife once her concerns are discussed and understood ... or maybe she will conclude her concerns are really not anything to be anxious about.

hope all this makes sense ... and pray all works out to the glory of God.
.

 

[BrightRiver]

Maybe define what you mean by "pedestal".

People treat the pastor as if his word is law, I dont think the pastor is the one who has evan instagated this
they act as though he is untouchable and that he is the ultimate authority in the church.

we dont have a strong eldership team and many in the church dont think we need one.

there are people who will refuse to evan say his name only calling him pastor. it's like they dont see him as a man any more at times.

the worst was when the deacon (yes only 1 deacon) outright said that we should see him like we see God.
I pulled him up and he backtracked on it, but the point was still there

 

[ResidentAlien]

a body of believers that meet together physically for mutual edification, worship....

You know you just described every cult out there.

 

[ResidentAlien]

People treat the pastor as if his word is law, I dont think the pastor is the one who has evan instagated this
they act as though he is untouchable and that he is the ultimate authority in the church.

we dont have a strong eldership team and many in the church dont think we need one.

there are people who will refuse to evan say his name only calling him pastor. it's like they dont see him as a man any more at times.

the worst was when the deacon (yes only 1 deacon) outright said that we should see him like we see God.
I pulled him up and he backtracked on it, but the point was still there

I've been thinking about your situation; here's what I'd do. If you feel the ministry you're doing there is important—important enough to stick with it—then bite the bullet and carry on without grumbling or complaining. Otherwise, get out and find another group.