Thank you for sharing your thoughts, but connecting the woman/ten coins parable to the sheep in Ezekiel 37: 15-28 is confusing. Especially in light of the context of the conversation in Luke 15 where Jesus is talking to Pharisees/teaches of the Law and other sinners about why He welcomes and eats with sinners. Also only one coin is lost the other nine are found so how does that metaphorically represent ten lost tribes?
Metaphorically speaking, who is the woman with the ten silver coins in Luke 15: 8-10?
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The value of the forgiven debts being roughly equal in value is taken from a variety of sources including scriptures.
We don't have a commodity based economy and haven't for a long time. But yes...equal. the values are based on roughly availability/supply and calorie denseness. Also some of the values are part of the TORAH.
And as far as "God in us"....that is true but it still does NOT mean that we are equal with God in any fashion, shape or ability.
And just because we have the Holy Spirit we do NOT control God's Power whatsoever...we might have God's ear....but we don't (and should know better than to even attempt to try) handle things that belong to God.
yeah brother all I meant to say is the people in the parables are just concepts they aren’t actual people being identified
hes teaching both sinners nd self righteous about how God deals with people
sin each of those three parables brother what I’m saying is Godnis represented as e authority the owner of the sheep , the woman who lost a coin , the father who’s in went away from him into a sinful life
God is simply being represented in a teaching were beginning to hear the truth of how God sees sinners d what his will for them is , and also we’re learning not to be like Pharisees and judge people who are coming near to hear Jesus who loves and desires them to come closer
if you read the whole chapter as Jesus trying to teach th whole group something it’s what parables are for to begin to understand God the father the gospel Jesus teachings and parables like that it’s this
“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
1 John 5:20 KJV
as a sinner does this
“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.”
Luke 15:1 KJV
religious folk tend to forget they were sinners too and sometimes they react like this when they see a “ sinner “ coming near to the lord
“And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.”
Luke 15:2 KJV
Jesus then tells three stories about God and sinners coming to repentance . It’s th re so a believer can begin toninderstsnd how God sees them that he doesn’t hate them because they had sinned but he knows and is trying to save them from the result coming upon all sinners
i was just saying the woman on the story. Is a concept about God he isn’t a woman with coins or a shepherd with sheep he is God and is trying to save sinners thise three stories begin to explain that to us
some hear “ repentance “ and don’t understand it jesus is trying to teach something to believers there
hes teaching both sinners nd self righteous about how God deals with people
sin each of those three parables brother what I’m saying is Godnis represented as e authority the owner of the sheep , the woman who lost a coin , the father who’s in went away from him into a sinful life
God is simply being represented in a teaching were beginning to hear the truth of how God sees sinners d what his will for them is , and also we’re learning not to be like Pharisees and judge people who are coming near to hear Jesus who loves and desires them to come closer
if you read the whole chapter as Jesus trying to teach th whole group something it’s what parables are for to begin to understand God the father the gospel Jesus teachings and parables like that it’s this
“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
1 John 5:20 KJV
as a sinner does this
“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.”
Luke 15:1 KJV
religious folk tend to forget they were sinners too and sometimes they react like this when they see a “ sinner “ coming near to the lord
“And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.”
Luke 15:2 KJV
Jesus then tells three stories about God and sinners coming to repentance . It’s th re so a believer can begin toninderstsnd how God sees them that he doesn’t hate them because they had sinned but he knows and is trying to save them from the result coming upon all sinners
i was just saying the woman on the story. Is a concept about God he isn’t a woman with coins or a shepherd with sheep he is God and is trying to save sinners thise three stories begin to explain that to us
some hear “ repentance “ and don’t understand it jesus is trying to teach something to believers there
It’s not a metaphor though is the thing
It’s always Jesus teaching believers about God and the kingdom of God I’m. Ot really sure why your trying to identify a concept in a story about repentance
In all three stories God is the authority figure the woman the owner of the sheep and the father all three stories are about th same concept God seeking to save sinners not destroy them or disown them
hes saying if one of you who believes on me gets lost I’ll find you like a shepherd would his sheep
hes saying if one of you gets lost I’ll seek for you like a woman who lost a coin and sought until she found it with joy
as d he’s saying your my children even though you’ve done so much wrong come home and be loved and welcomed
its a true concept understanding of God
It’s always Jesus teaching believers about God and the kingdom of God I’m. Ot really sure why your trying to identify a concept in a story about repentance
In all three stories God is the authority figure the woman the owner of the sheep and the father all three stories are about th same concept God seeking to save sinners not destroy them or disown them
hes saying if one of you who believes on me gets lost I’ll find you like a shepherd would his sheep
hes saying if one of you gets lost I’ll seek for you like a woman who lost a coin and sought until she found it with joy
as d he’s saying your my children even though you’ve done so much wrong come home and be loved and welcomed
its a true concept understanding of God
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Each coin is a day's wage, so the woman diligently searches for it even though she still has 9 days wages to work with. It's still valuable to her considering the time and energy invested in acquiring it, as much as the other 9. This parable, along with the other two, is in answer to the Pharisees and scribes' comment on His welcoming sinners and eating with them (dining together is an intimate and joyful event).
His attitude about the lost is never to shrug it off like it was no loss at all. He'll always go out after, search for, and look forward to, their return.
His attitude about the lost is never to shrug it off like it was no loss at all. He'll always go out after, search for, and look forward to, their return.
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no, i didn't actually provide an answer. i just was shocked i had not noticed how precise Jesus described the actions of at least one Woman, but knowing many women, He did basically describe them all.
but i agree with the lost sheep metaphor here. lose one, leave the 99 to find the 1.
lose 1 coin, put the other coins away and go find the one coin.
it's all saying the same thing.
but i agree with the lost sheep metaphor here. lose one, leave the 99 to find the 1.
lose 1 coin, put the other coins away and go find the one coin.
it's all saying the same thing.
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
The lost sheep of the house of Israel are the Gentiles of the nations that we are waiting to "come in", ie. fulness of the Gentiles.
The Pharisees/teachers hated any association with the house of Israel/ie Gentiles of the nations. However, Jesus/Yeshua certainly had no problem associating with them.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
If there is no understanding of the Two Houses, then the parables become lost to their true meaning. Everything Jesus/Yeshua taught in His parables was in regard to bring in the lost sheep so that the Two Houses can be reunited.
This is why He said unto His disciples that they have been given understanding of the parables and everyone else hear but don't understand.
The lost sheep of the house of Israel are the Gentiles of the nations that we are waiting to "come in", ie. fulness of the Gentiles.
The Pharisees/teachers hated any association with the house of Israel/ie Gentiles of the nations. However, Jesus/Yeshua certainly had no problem associating with them.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
If there is no understanding of the Two Houses, then the parables become lost to their true meaning. Everything Jesus/Yeshua taught in His parables was in regard to bring in the lost sheep so that the Two Houses can be reunited.
This is why He said unto His disciples that they have been given understanding of the parables and everyone else hear but don't understand.
Looking over the various commentaries provided at Bible Hub, I came across a view offer by Bengel's Gnomen that suggests the woman "signifies Wisdom, or else Koheleth...: or else (a Hebrew word that looks like 'raphah'?), the Holy Spirit, even as the son is alluded to in the 4th verse, and the Father in the 11th verse," and went back to see the problem George71 posed with this view when jb offered it. Namely, that Jesus asked the scribes and pharisees, "what man among you, if he had 100 sheep and loses one of them, does not leave the 99 in the pasture and goes after the one that is lost, until he finds it?," ...and continues, "Or what woman that has that has 10 silver coins and loses one of them does not light a lamp, sweep her house, and search carefully until she finds it?"
If the answer to these rhetorical questions is anything but, "no man among you in any pasture," and "no women in any house," then it would seem relevant exactly who she represents unless the answer is actually, "only a certain one."
However, Jesus follows up these parables with the parable of the man with the two sons that is cross-referenced with Deuteronomy 18:21 directing both father and mother to deliver a rebellious son to the elders of the city to be stoned to death in order to "purge the evil from among you." and reveals the outcome that directly contrasts with the prescribed treatment of such a sinner (that these scribes and pharisees would have believed to be of more appropriate response). Here, Jesus reveals the true nature of Father.
So, it would be fitting that Jesus' questions, what man or woman among you would care more than God for all that is His, whether secured or lost? 100 and 10 have something to do with wholeness or completeness if I'm not mistaken.
If the answer to these rhetorical questions is anything but, "no man among you in any pasture," and "no women in any house," then it would seem relevant exactly who she represents unless the answer is actually, "only a certain one."
However, Jesus follows up these parables with the parable of the man with the two sons that is cross-referenced with Deuteronomy 18:21 directing both father and mother to deliver a rebellious son to the elders of the city to be stoned to death in order to "purge the evil from among you." and reveals the outcome that directly contrasts with the prescribed treatment of such a sinner (that these scribes and pharisees would have believed to be of more appropriate response). Here, Jesus reveals the true nature of Father.
So, it would be fitting that Jesus' questions, what man or woman among you would care more than God for all that is His, whether secured or lost? 100 and 10 have something to do with wholeness or completeness if I'm not mistaken.
Thank you for your informative response.
I don't think the woman represents God as metaphors for God are usually masculine (but I could be mistaken). The woman could represent wisdom. And she certainly acts with wisdom to search for her lost coin. While a search through Proverbs found multiple references to silver (Proverbs 2:4; 3:14; 8:10 etc.) none are tied to 10 coins. There are verses in Leviticus 27 concerning special vows to dedicate a person to the Lord by giving equivalent value where 10 silver coins are associated with females. In 27:5 a female between the ages of 5 and 20 is valued at 10 silver shekels and in 27:7 a woman 60 years old or older is also valued at 10 silver shekels. If prior to being dedicated one of the 10 coins became lost the person could not be specially dedicated.
It is also possible that the woman metaphorically represents a city or country. The prophets have multiple examples where the Lord references daughter Zion (Jer 4:31), daughter Jerusalem (Isa 37:22), daughter Babylon (Zec 2:7). The ten silver coins would suggest a city/country dedicated to a redemptive (silver) covenant (binding agreement) relationship (such a Israel's redemptive covenant relationship with their Redeemer/Lord in accordance with the Decalogue). Finding the coin would represent restoration of that relationship. Of course the Pharisees/teachers of the Law should be well acquainted with all this if they had paid attention during their schooling.
I agree in the end the owner that seeks lost sheep is Christ. What is your view of the 99 sheep left in the open country?
I don't think the woman represents God as metaphors for God are usually masculine (but I could be mistaken). The woman could represent wisdom. And she certainly acts with wisdom to search for her lost coin. While a search through Proverbs found multiple references to silver (Proverbs 2:4; 3:14; 8:10 etc.) none are tied to 10 coins. There are verses in Leviticus 27 concerning special vows to dedicate a person to the Lord by giving equivalent value where 10 silver coins are associated with females. In 27:5 a female between the ages of 5 and 20 is valued at 10 silver shekels and in 27:7 a woman 60 years old or older is also valued at 10 silver shekels. If prior to being dedicated one of the 10 coins became lost the person could not be specially dedicated.
It is also possible that the woman metaphorically represents a city or country. The prophets have multiple examples where the Lord references daughter Zion (Jer 4:31), daughter Jerusalem (Isa 37:22), daughter Babylon (Zec 2:7). The ten silver coins would suggest a city/country dedicated to a redemptive (silver) covenant (binding agreement) relationship (such a Israel's redemptive covenant relationship with their Redeemer/Lord in accordance with the Decalogue). Finding the coin would represent restoration of that relationship. Of course the Pharisees/teachers of the Law should be well acquainted with all this if they had paid attention during their schooling.
I agree in the end the owner that seeks lost sheep is Christ. What is your view of the 99 sheep left in the open country?
Thinking in terms of the choice to stay with the 99 or go after the one lost sheep, and assuming that most would make that choice whether sooner or later, the decision to go after the lost sheep is most likely influenced by the degree of safety involved in the perspective situations, and the lone sheep would be in one of a more immediate risk of danger of harm. The 99 are in an open field which means that, although they are vulnerable to harm if left without the shepherd, he can still keep a watchful eye on them knowing where they are whereas the one sheep is lost so its whereabouts are unknown. Additionally, I assume it would be contingent upon the shepherd finding the sheep that he would have to leave the 99 in order to focus on hearing the single lamb's bleating.
The female valued of 10 shekels angle is interesting, but I don't think even a single coin of silver was considered trivial enough to leave lost, like we might let a nickel, dime, or penny roll under the counter without exerting much effort to retrieve it. However, if a silver ounce, I don't know how much they're worth these days, as much as $25 or maybe only $17, fell down the sink drain, who among us would immediately rummage through the toolbox for a wrench?
The female valued of 10 shekels angle is interesting, but I don't think even a single coin of silver was considered trivial enough to leave lost, like we might let a nickel, dime, or penny roll under the counter without exerting much effort to retrieve it. However, if a silver ounce, I don't know how much they're worth these days, as much as $25 or maybe only $17, fell down the sink drain, who among us would immediately rummage through the toolbox for a wrench?