question: Can an unsaved person be baptized in the Holy Spirit?

[Bob-Carabbio]

Thank you for responding. I was contemplating John 20:21-23 this morning so your response was timely from my perspective. Do you have any insight into where the "record of Holy Spirit in Christians" is recorded in Matthew, Mark, and Luke/Acts?

Also did Thomas miss out then on receiving the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit because he was absent, verse 24 (during Jesus next encounter with the disciples, verses 26-29, Thomas was present but the Scripture does not indicate that Jesus breathed on him)?

Since what MAKES a person a Born Again Christian, is the infilling of the Holy Spirit, then I 'spect that when Thomas accepted in FAITH who Jesus WAS, then the Spirit infilled him, just like He does us when WE place our God given FAITH in Him.

No, the Bible doesn't state specifically that was the case. But when the Holy Spirit became available to indwell after the ressurection (which proved that Jesus' sacrifice was acceptable), then His infilling became automatic after surrender, repentance, and calling upon God for salvation.

The Acts 2:4 thing is different - NOT an "infilling, but an EXTERNAL CLOTHING with "power from on high" (Luke 24:49). Since OLD Testament people also were "clothed with POWER from on high, arguably, the "Baptism in the Holy SPirit" (so called) also happened to them back then, at God's pleasure. TODAY, however it's potentially universal among Christians.

 

[Fundaamental]

How do you reconcile this with Romans 8:9 or John 3 where Jesus is surprised that a ruler in Israel would not understand being born again?

could you post theese Verses and explain your stance, I can't explain something I don't know what your questioning from what I wrote

 

[Cameron143]

could you post theese Verses and explain your stance, I can't explain something I don't know what your questioning from what I wrote

Romans 8 says to be belong to God one must have the Holy Spirit. Pharisees according to Jesus should know this. Given this, how do you say OT saints didn't have the Holy Spirit?

 

[Fundaamental]

Romans 8 says to be belong to God one must have the Holy Spirit. Pharisees according to Jesus should know this. Given this, how do you say OT saints didn't have the Holy Spirit?

I'm still confused by your question.

Nobody was born again untill after the resurrection of Christ.

In what form the righteous people of the ot where lead of the holy spirit I can only assume it was temporary as in all the prophets who where filled with holy spirit temporarily as they spoke.

As far as I'm aware they where called ot saints because they where saved after the resurrection of Jesus

 

[Niki7]

No

You just want to condemn me as a false teacher and not understand a thing I have said.

You know. if you know. then why condemn me as a false teacher SMH!!

Can you refer to any posts here wherein that is all I wish to do?

Stop the personal accusations and post comments that illustrate what you believe instead of these silly false accusations

I don't think anyone here actually wishes to condemn anyone else. I am sure most would prefer you come to understand all the truth and blessings of the atonement, rather than do a mashup with the OT and tell people they must worship on Saturday

Your choice though

 

[Niki7]

You have been serious??

You attack me falsly.

Thats pride my friend. thats pride..

Ditto my post 425 addressed to you.

I have not attacked you or anyone else in your camp. If you cannot properly defend your position without sounding like you are having a crying jag, then maybe you do not actually have that proof.

For the last half dozen or so replies you have made to my posts, you have done what you say I am doing.

Stop the personal comments; this thread is not about me. Stick to the op if you can.

 

[Niki7]

Here is a simple and truthful guide to better understand why the law is no longer in effect. This is a portion of the entire post and to read the entire article, just click on 'source' at the end of this post

There is no conflict between grace and the Law, properly understood. Christ fulfilled the Law on our behalf and offers the power of the Holy Spirit, who motivates a regenerated heart to live in obedience to Him (Matthew 3:8; Acts 1:8; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; 2 Timothy 1:14). James 2:26 says, “As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.” A grace that has the power to save also has the power to motivate a sinful heart toward godliness. Where there is no impulse to be godly, there is no saving faith.

We are saved by grace, through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9). The keeping of the Law cannot save anyone (Romans 3:20; Titus 3:5). In fact, those who claim righteousness on the basis of their keeping of the Law only think they’re keeping the Law; this was one of Jesus’ main points in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:20–48; see also Luke 18:18–23).

The purpose of the Law was, basically, to bring us to Christ (Galatians 3:24). Once we are saved, God desires to glorify Himself through our good works (Matthew 5:16; Ephesians 2:10). Therefore, good works follow salvation; they do not precede it.

Conflict between “grace” and the “Law” can arise when someone 1) misunderstands the purpose of the Law; 2) redefines grace as something other than “God’s benevolence on the undeserving” (see Romans 11:6); 3) tries to earn his own salvation or “supplement” Christ’s sacrifice; 4) follows the error of the Pharisees in tacking manmade rituals and traditions onto his doctrine; or 5) fails to focus on the “whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27).

When the Holy Spirit guides our search of Scripture, we can “study to show ourselves approved unto God” (2 Timothy 2:15) and discover the beauty of a grace that produces good works. source

 

[Cameron143]

I'm still confused by your question.

Nobody was born again untill after the resurrection of Christ.

In what form the righteous people of the ot where lead of the holy spirit I can only assume it was temporary as in all the prophets who where filled with holy spirit temporarily as they spoke.

As far as I'm aware they where called ot saints because they where saved after the resurrection of Jesus

How does someone who is spiritually dead relate to God spiritually? Don't they first need to be made alive?

 

[Fundaamental]

How does someone who is spiritually dead relate to God spiritually? Don't they first need to be made alive?

a hedge of protection for the righteous would be my best guess for this spiritually dead term you use, so no not completely spiritually dead.

There would have more than likely be some cover for the ot righteous called ot saints.

But what was that cover

What would that cover have been,

Well who knows,

But who can answer what the hedge of protection was over Job.

Was it an energy field from God and a reward for those who could rule over sin,

What's your ideas of ot saints or the meaning

Where they people made saints ?

Where they people that already existed in heaven befor they where born ?

Where they people who obeyed the law better than others.

Where they people born again befor the resurrection of Jesus

Do you believe ot righteous people obeying the law better than others, where saved in Abraham's bussom after the resurrection of Jesus

Answer all theese questions then I may be able to understand where your coming from

 

[Cameron143]

a hedge of protection for the righteous would be my best guess for this spiritually dead term you use, so no not completely spiritually dead.

There would have more than likely be some cover for the ot righteous called ot saints.

But what was that cover

What would that cover have been,

Well who knows,

But who can answer what the hedge of protection was over Job.

Was it an energy field from God and a reward for those who could rule over sin,

What's your ideas of ot saints or the meaning

Where they people made saints ?

Where they people that already existed in heaven befor they where born ?

Where they people who obeyed the law better than others.

Where they people born again befor the resurrection of Jesus

Do you believe ot righteous people obeying the law better than others, where saved in Abraham's bussom after the resurrection of Jesus

Answer all theese questions then I may be able to understand where your coming from

The hedge of protection around Job was God not allowing evil things to come upon him. It was removed to a high degree when God allowed Satan to attack him.

The righteous are the saints. They are not righteous because of their obedience. They are righteous because God has imputed His righteousness to them.

Born again is a NT term but it is more than adequately explained in the OT. For example, Ezekiel 36:26.

Salvation is a spiritual transaction. It occurs inwardly and manifests outwardly.

 

[Fundaamental]

The hedge of protection around Job was God not allowing evil things to come upon him. It was removed to a high degree when God allowed Satan to attack him.

The righteous are the saints. They are not righteous because of their obedience. They are righteous because God has imputed His righteousness to them.

Born again is a NT term but it is more than adequately explained in the OT. For example, Ezekiel 36:26.

Salvation is a spiritual transaction. It occurs inwardly and manifests outwardly.

OK did Job have the laws wrote on his heart as in Ezekiel 36.26 and was Ezekiel not the promise of the lord returning

So how was righteousness inputted into job if Ezekiel 36.26 hadn't arrived
And do you feel job was an ot saint, I do

You say the hedge over job was something that did something, but you havent said what that something was

 

[Cameron143]

OK did Job have the laws wrote on his heart as in Ezekiel 36.26 and was Ezekiel not the promise of the lord returning

So how was righteousness inputted into job if Ezekiel 36.26 hadn't arrived
And do you feel job was an ot saint, I do

You say the hedge over job was something that did something, but you havent said what that something was

Yes Job was an OT saint. To be so He would have to have the Holy Spirit. Everyone who is saved has an imputed righteousness.

The hedge doesn't have to be a literal entity. It just implies that God kept evil from affecting Job.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Can you refer to any posts here wherein that is all I wish to do?

Stop the personal accusations and post comments that illustrate what you believe instead of these silly false accusations

I don't think anyone here actually wishes to condemn anyone else. I am sure most would prefer you come to understand all the truth and blessings of the atonement, rather than do a mashup with the OT and tell people they must worship on Saturday

Your choice though

You continue, who said anything about Saterday?.

this is your post.

Your views are not biblical. That is my response as I have stated, others have also stated numerous times.

You seem to deny salvation through Christ and that is approaching blasphemy

We are first saved by faith in Christ and then the rest follows.

Now. can you tell me what I believe that is in error? and not biblical?

 

[Fundaamental]

Yes Job was an OT saint. To be so He would have to have the Holy Spirit. Everyone who is saved has an imputed righteousness.

The hedge doesn't have to be a literal entity. It just implies that God kept evil from affecting Job.

Job had the holy spirit indwelled permanently ?.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Ditto my post 425 addressed to you.

I have not attacked you

Your views are not biblical.

You seem to deny salvation through Christ and that is approaching blasphemy

that is not an attack huh?

or anyone else in your camp. If you cannot properly defend your position without sounding like you are having a crying jag, then maybe you do not actually have that proof.

For the last half dozen or so replies you have made to my posts, you have done what you say I am doing.

Stop the personal comments; this thread is not about me. Stick to the op if you can.

Please enlighten us, what is my camp. what do I teach that is in error?

 

[Cameron143]

Job had the holy spirit indwelled permanently ?.

Yes. This was my point all along. If you don't have the Spirit, you do not belong to God. The truth of Romans 8 didn't begin when it was written. It's always been true. But it was more fully revealed here and in other NT passages. That was the reasoning behind the very first question I asked you.

 

[George71]

Abraham is called an ot saint or a righteous dead who rested in a place of comfort for the dead called Abraham's bussom. because

They would have seen the lord after his resurrection, where Jesus went to set them free. Whilst all ot saints where righteous none where born again until after the resurrection of Christ, all tho whilst many where alive in the ot they where temporarily filled by the holy spirit and moved by the holy spirit as they spoke

Thank you for your response, which relies on Jesus going to these individuals after His resurrection. John 8:56 happens before His death on the cross/resurrection. So I'm not sure that your response which describes a post resurrection visitation answers my question about a pre-cross/pre-resurrection conversation. But I do appreciate the kindness with which you offer it.

 

[Niki7]

You continue, who said anything about Saterday?.

this is your post.


Now. can you tell me what I believe that is in error? and not biblical?

Not playing your game. Try an actual response instead of a critique of something you made up

 

[Niki7]

that is not an attack huh?



Please enlighten us, what is my camp. what do I teach that is in error?

Not playing your game. Try an actual response instead of a critique of something you made up

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Not playing your game. Try an actual response instead of a critique of something you made up

I posted your own post to me,

yet I made it up??

are you serious man?