question: Can an unsaved person be baptized in the Holy Spirit?

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Jul 27, 2023
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Let me make something clear. I do believe that someone who has truly been saved should want to be baptized in water as a symbol of the true baptism by the spirit to the edification of the church. But, this is an action from faith and has nothing to do with salvation. If physical baptism in water was a requirement, then the thief on the cross would have been told something entirely different.

Faith - salvation (receiving the Holy Spirit) - baptism by water and other faith proving works

No contradictions.

I just searched and found this that explains it a little better than me.
Code:
https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-salvation.html
 
Jul 27, 2023
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The "condition for salvation" is removing the guilt of sin. Sin is what separates us from God. God has commanded baptism as the vehicle for the remission of sins, not faith alone. It is not for us to second guess or cross reference Him.

There is no verse that states faith alone for the remission of sins but there is a verse that states baptized for the remission of sins.

People don't accept Acts 2:38 because of its verbiage but because it goes against their theology.
I posted many earlier.
There was something said to those that wanted to throw works into the plan of salvation.

Paul made it clear that it was faith alone. James made it clear that true faith will lead to good works.
 

DJT_47

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2022
1,041
187
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Let me make something clear. I do believe that someone who has truly been saved should want to be baptized in water as a symbol of the true baptism by the spirit to the edification of the church. But, this is an action from faith and has nothing to do with salvation. If physical baptism in water was a requirement, then the thief on the cross would have been told something entirely different.

Faith - salvation (receiving the Holy Spirit) - baptism by water and other faith proving works

No contradictions.

I just searched and found this that explains it a little better than me.
Code:
https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-salvation.html
You're out to lunch and the bible clearly and unequivocally refutes such nonsensical views as yours sbd others that baptism is unimportant, not relevant to salvation or remission of sins, or means of entry to the body of Christ, is for a "public statement", blah, blah, blah. Goodbye 👋
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,205
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Midwest
There is a reason Paul went to the Gentiles and Peter to the Jews.
Precious friend, glad you stayed for more discussion and study - I have found, after some years of Confusion about this:

Both sides of this issue are absolutely Correct, but one of them is UNdispensational *

When God's Word Of Truth is 'Rightly Divided' then we see the 'reasons Peter
went to the Jews, and why Paul went to the heathen Gentiles.' (Gal 2:6-9).
Here a summary of:

Three baptisms, Rightly Divided, Within God's Contexts:

(1) Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ( earthly ) ISRAEL:

water baptism was man's operation, Commanded by God
to John the baptizer, and then by Christ to:

►►► The Twelve apostles who Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =

A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)
+
This Is The Baptism That "Christ Performed" after ascending Into Heaven:

B) Baptism WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for
power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)

Prophecy/Covenants/Law

Q: Are these TWO "still Required" By God, for us, Today, Under Grace?
Bible Answer:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

(2) Mystery/GRACE! =

our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The [ Heavenly ] Body Of CHRIST:

►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually
Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; ►►► 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB ◄◄◄)

Is it not bad math teaching Two baptisms, Under Grace?
----------------
FULL study of God's ONE ( Spiritual ) Baptism for today's Dispensation of Grace...

And, Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
(+ I and II).

Grace, Peace, And JOY!… + RICH Blessings

Amen.

More study, if you wish:

* UnScriptural or UNdispensational?
 
N

Niki7

Guest
Lol

Then interpret those scriptures for me in a way that being baptized INTO Christ, and INTO his death, and with the SPIRITUAL CIRCUMCISION made without hands. Does not SAVE US.
Since scripture states we are saved by Christ's death and resurrection I cannot do that. You should not be doing it either.
 
N

Niki7

Guest
See, you still can not respond to me.

You’re the one who first said I failed. I just returned the favor..

I speak to others the way they speak to me..

funny how once again, you could not respond to my post.
Your views are not biblical. That is my response as I have stated, others have also stated numerous times.

You seem to deny salvation through Christ and that is approaching blasphemy

We are first saved by faith in Christ and then the rest follows.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
917
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the thief on the cross would have been told something entirely different.
The old thief on the cross rabbit hole.

A. You do not know if he was not baptized. Many were baptized for the forgiveness of sins before this event.
B. He died before Jesus was resurrected.
C. You cannot claim a promise given personally to another individual.

You cannot use this person as a loophole to ignore God's command for the remission of sins.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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"It's about the Holy Spirit Baptism." You are aware that "Holy Spirit Baptism" is metaphysical in nature? Please tell me that you are aware of this.
I am aware that a baboon picking his own feces up and playing with it has more intelligence than you do.

metaphysical, is a condition of the MIND!
the Holy Spirit PHYSICALLY LIVES inside my heart.

As a former Southern Baptist, take your devil Doctrine and shove it sideways!
 
Jun 20, 2022
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The earliest record of baptism in the NT is the baptism of John. It was the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. Was it in the spirit or in water? It was water baptism, and in the Jordan River. This is identical to the baptism recorded in Acts 2:38 except it was in the name of Jesus Christ, for repentance, for the remission of sins, to receive the Holy Ghost, and to be added to the church by the Lord (verse 47). Hence, the need for the Ephesians to be re-baptized as recorded in Acts 19. All baptisms can or should be assumed to be water baptism unless otherwise stated, and those are clearly otherwise stated in scripture. Why would anyone assume anything different? On what basis, other than anti-baptism bias? How can one ignore scriptures such as Acts 22:16 or the account of the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8? Clearly, baptism is in water unless otherwise stated in scripture, and the account in Acts 8 also indicates that Philip obviously included the need for water baptism as part of his preaching of the gospel to the eunuch.

Luke 3:3

3And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Mark 1:4-5

4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Acts 22:16

16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 8:36-38

36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
no one is arguing Water Baptism did not take place.
But the Verses I posted are Holy Spirit Baptism, and as you plainly see when you READ the Verses, NO WATER is ever mentioned with this type of Baptism.

The Bible is TRUTH, and you are twisting it like the Enemy would.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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A painful but true statement.
people, without God, can never SEE God work!


but they are still accountable:

19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them.

20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse—

21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God
 
Jun 20, 2022
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True, but I don't see any signs, wonders or miracles. At least Jesus did something; people today just pretend to do something.
people, without God, can never SEE God work!


but they are still accountable:

19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them.

20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse—

21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God
 
Jul 6, 2023
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The "condition for salvation" is removing the guilt of sin. Sin is what separates us from God. God has commanded baptism as the vehicle for the remission of sins, not faith alone. It is not for us to second guess or cross reference Him.

There is no verse that states faith alone for the remission of sins but there is a verse that states baptized for the remission of sins.

People don't accept Acts 2:38 because of its verbiage but because it goes against their theology.
Hi Lamar,

I took a look at Acts 2:38. To be honest it does not say baptism in water (aka water baptism). The NIV translation I have says, "Repent and be baptized, ..., in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of our sins." Clearly there are multiple "baptisms" referenced in the Bible (including some in Deuteronomy and Leviticus). This reference is to "baptism" is not to water baptism but to baptism in Jesus name. Water baptism and baptism in Jesus name (i.e. baptism in His authority) are not the same thing. In Matthew 28: 18-19 the resurrected Jesus is the speaker. He states, "All authority has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," Here Jesus is ordering His disciples to baptize in His authority (conferring the authority to Baptize in the Holy Spirit on His disciples).

Why do you think Jesus would speak of water baptism instead of the baptism that the Scripture clearly allocates to Him? That's going backward into the Old Covenant!

Truly I hope and pray that Jesus will show you His miracles!

In Christ
George71
 
Jul 27, 2023
36
8
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You're out to lunch and the bible clearly and unequivocally refutes such nonsensical views as yours sbd others that baptism is unimportant, not relevant to salvation or remission of sins, or means of entry to the body of Christ, is for a "public statement", blah, blah, blah. Goodbye 👋
You can bully and goodbye all you want, the Bible doesn't not include water baptism as a condition of salvation. Paul never intended it to be a commandment. That isn't what he taught nor the instructions given to him when he went to Jerusalem. In fact, he told us that if we even tried to fulfill just one commandment as a means of justification, then Christ is of no value to us.

Romans 10:9-11
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Ephesians2:8-19
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

100 verses that contradict your interpretation.
Code:
https://www.openbible.info/topics/justification_by_faith_alone
You can place the yoke back on your own necks if you like, but no matter how many commandments one follows, it will not gain them salvation.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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what is clearly obvious whenever a Grace member of such Doctrine tells you that, The "condition for salvation" is removing the guilt of sin?

that person thinks they have a license to sin.

The Stupid is so Real in this Thread, Satan, must be tickled pink!
 
Jun 20, 2022
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The "condition for salvation" is removing the ""guilt"" of sin.

Do you know How Twisted a mind has to be to allow this GARBAGE to come out of its mouth/fingers?
 
Jul 6, 2023
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I am aware that a baboon picking his own feces up and playing with it has more intelligence than you do.

metaphysical, is a condition of the MIND!
the Holy Spirit PHYSICALLY LIVES inside my heart.

As a former Southern Baptist, take your devil Doctrine and shove it sideways!
I understand what you mean but it came out a little off. The one who is "physical"/has physicality is you. The Holy Spirit is Spirit. I'm not sure if the Spirit actually "physically lives" anywhere. I think that no matter where He is He is still Spirit. Might be better to simply say the Holy Spirit lives inside of me, all of me. And I am a being that is physical, mental and spiritual!

Also your response comes off as angry. Is this you or the Spirit of Christ who lives in you?
 
Jun 20, 2022
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I understand what you mean but it came out a little off. The one who is "physical"/has physicality is you. The Holy Spirit is Spirit. I'm not sure if the Spirit actually "physically lives" anywhere. I think that no matter where He is He is still Spirit. Might be better to simply say the Holy Spirit lives inside of me, all of me. And I am a being that is physical, mental and spiritual!

Also your response comes off as angry. Is this you or the Spirit of Christ who lives in you?
don't you have a spirit? a Spirit to spirit is physical in its own realm.