Is the Holy Spirit a distinct divine Person?
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True. I was not trying to be comprehensive. Why is He called "the Spirit of Christ"? Evidently the answer is in John 14:26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
So everything spiritual revealed by the Lord Jesus Christ -- which would reflect the Spirit of Christ -- would also be brought to believers by the Holy Spirit to reinforce the words and teachings of Christ. Thus He becomes "the Spirit of Christ". There is absolute and perfect harmony within the Godhead, but that does not mean it is Modalism. It means that there is absolute unity between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- one God who is in fact incomprehensible to the human mind.
So everything spiritual revealed by the Lord Jesus Christ -- which would reflect the Spirit of Christ -- would also be brought to believers by the Holy Spirit to reinforce the words and teachings of Christ. Thus He becomes "the Spirit of Christ". There is absolute and perfect harmony within the Godhead, but that does not mean it is Modalism. It means that there is absolute unity between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- one God who is in fact incomprehensible to the human mind.
The basic understanding I have is, the trinity is there for a blessing to lead people to salvation. 😊
Which ever way it's turned around it will will always be that way. What ever way it gets viewed does not make any difference to me, to ever be overly concerned how somebody might view the trinity.
It wouldn't even cause me to dislike someone.
I really do feel anyone who dislikes someone because there views are different about the trinity or get annoyed about the holy spirit being mentioned inappropriately really is not spirit lead at that moment.
I remember prophecy well
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
Which ever way it's turned around it will will always be that way. What ever way it gets viewed does not make any difference to me, to ever be overly concerned how somebody might view the trinity.
It wouldn't even cause me to dislike someone.
I really do feel anyone who dislikes someone because there views are different about the trinity or get annoyed about the holy spirit being mentioned inappropriately really is not spirit lead at that moment.
I remember prophecy well
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
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You know I have started positive threads here in the BDF before, and tried to keep them alive, as have others. And they only make it a few pages long. But these "hot topics" can go on for hundreds of pages. It's sad really.
I think it is really important to understand the foundation of our beliefs. We can't share error to the unsaved because it continues, like that game of telephone until it's not even recognizable to the Word. As I have said before I have fellowship with people from different denominations than mine. The church I attend is a mash-up of different denominations. In fact, before our pastor went there the church did not believe in having any music in service, none at all. He came in and changed that. A few left, but most stayed. So I don't have an issue with different denominations, unless we are taking Catholic, mainly because of their view of the pope and Mary. Jehovah Witness and Mormons I would consider a cult, but will still be willing to fellowship and discuss with them. But I would see the deity of Christ as a very important and foundational doctrine, and with that, the trinity. Now I made sure I was fully awake on this one, hopefully it makes sense.
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The declaration of God on the mount to Moses demonstrates the mystery of God'[s Being as just that, a mystery.
He declared He will be what He will be.
Jesus Yeshua, the Holy Spirit and the Father are ONE, with each manifestation , no matter how you try to explain, they are One...
Once more I am reminded of Isaiah 9;6 where we are taught that the Child born to Mary would be called Almighty God, Everlasting Father, Ruler of Peace, Coundelor, Comforter, . He is also called the only Begotten Son. Why not call Him more than the Trinity then?
Stop pretending you know the deepest myssteries of our Father in this age, and dawait His teaching us in His Kingdom. All will be truly revealed at that time.
He declared He will be what He will be.
Jesus Yeshua, the Holy Spirit and the Father are ONE, with each manifestation , no matter how you try to explain, they are One...
Once more I am reminded of Isaiah 9;6 where we are taught that the Child born to Mary would be called Almighty God, Everlasting Father, Ruler of Peace, Coundelor, Comforter, . He is also called the only Begotten Son. Why not call Him more than the Trinity then?
Stop pretending you know the deepest myssteries of our Father in this age, and dawait His teaching us in His Kingdom. All will be truly revealed at that time.
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really I don't have time to become denominational over the trinity.
We hear this story about Jws pestering people but that's far from the truth, they go to people's houses to spread the word, then we here theses stories about prefabricated truths about latter day saints.
Then all of sudden there demonised.
Or the thoughts come that,, no theese denominations don't have the the truth about the holy spirit or the trinity
Then we go down the road of no no no I know what my holy spirit says.
Or someone expresses a similar view about the holy spirit without realising a JW has or a latter day saint has, because that's what there called, there not called Mormons.
Then it's like oh let's demonise you by disagreeing over the trinity, has such person stopped to think where there going, are they even realising there demonising a person by the holy spirit ?.
I say the holy spirit is not there to demonise people.
Then we say no the deity of Christ is very important doctrine,
Ok we know a doctrine is a church belief and all church beliefs are important.
Ok are you sure it's not more important because the holy can mean more to someone than some one else.
Where's the sharing when the holy spirit is represented as being something that should decide there truth over yours .
The deity about believing for yourself is what's most important and how the holy spirit made you believe, it isn't about how your view or my view hasn't reached someone else yet.
We hear this story about Jws pestering people but that's far from the truth, they go to people's houses to spread the word, then we here theses stories about prefabricated truths about latter day saints.
Then all of sudden there demonised.
Or the thoughts come that,, no theese denominations don't have the the truth about the holy spirit or the trinity
Then we go down the road of no no no I know what my holy spirit says.
Or someone expresses a similar view about the holy spirit without realising a JW has or a latter day saint has, because that's what there called, there not called Mormons.
Then it's like oh let's demonise you by disagreeing over the trinity, has such person stopped to think where there going, are they even realising there demonising a person by the holy spirit ?.
I say the holy spirit is not there to demonise people.
Then we say no the deity of Christ is very important doctrine,
Ok we know a doctrine is a church belief and all church beliefs are important.
Ok are you sure it's not more important because the holy can mean more to someone than some one else.
Where's the sharing when the holy spirit is represented as being something that should decide there truth over yours .
The deity about believing for yourself is what's most important and how the holy spirit made you believe, it isn't about how your view or my view hasn't reached someone else yet.
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I am not pretending anything, and it is rather hypocritical, if I may be blunt, for you to even suggest such a thing when you are the one who seemingly came here to correct all of us concerning "the deepest mysteries of our Father".
Anyway, I am not going to waste my time arguing with you or anybody else.
I stand fully behind what I previously posted.
Anyway, I am not going to waste my time arguing with you or anybody else.
I stand fully behind what I previously posted.
Don not put everything in reverse. I responded to the question and was simply told I was wrong, even ignorant. So why do you complain when I share what I have learned over the decades? I will not respond to any more alerts within this thread for no matter how I respond, I seem to be the ignorant, stupid, arrogant wandering soul depicted by those who know everthing in the Word, even as much as the Word.
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“GOD THE FATHER IS NEITHER THE SON NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT”
brother are you sure you mean to say this ? This doesn’t sound like you
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.”
1 John 5:7 KJV
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
Genesis 1:1 KJV
what im saying is Jesus is who is being called God right there he is the creator and his spirit is what moves and creates when he speaks
“And the Spirit of God ( holY spirit ) moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, ( his spoken word ) Let there be light: and there was light.”
Genesis 1:2-3 KJV
All I’m saying really is now read the gospel of John and ask what it’s saying to you
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth.”
John 1:1, 3, 9-10, 14
What that’s telling us is this
“And without controversy ( whether you we I agree with Paul or not ) great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, ( Jesus the son ) justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
That’s why we see Jesus born as a man called Immanuel God with us it’s why the prophets said “ his name of the sin will be everlasting father the mighty God “
You should re consider brother being “ right “ isnt important enough to reject what’s plain
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
Isaiah 9:6 KJV
to say Jesus is not God the father is erroneous , say the holy spirit is not the spirit of Jesus Christ the spirit of God also is erroneous and would crater any other belief unto salvation
The New Testament is about revealing tonus our lord and our God Jesus Christ who is God the father manifest himself n the flesh like the Bible very clearly says and the Holy Spirit is his spirit the one that was in Jesus christ when he was born in the flesh of man
What I’m saying is Jesus spirit isnt a different independent person from him that seems pretty common sense type stuff it’s like me saying “ you and your spirit are two independent people but you work together “ that’s not the case you are try same person as your spirit it’s only a different form of who you are
Jesus is God fully manifest to all people the fulness of God in the form of a man filled with his living spirit before Jesus was born God had never had a body or been made flesh now we can know God because he’s revealed himself in the gospel
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
Colossians 2:9 KJV
That’s why this
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”
Matthew 28:19 KJV
is always this
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38 KJV
at he holt ghost comes along with Jesus name because it’s his spirit brother
“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
Galatians 4:6
The spirit of Jesus who lived on earth is the holy spirit, his spirit is the spirit of God there’s just one holt ghost it’s gods spirit
Jesus brother is God in his fulness
the father is the living spirit who was in him
“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”
John 14:10 KJV
God is one brother
“I and my Father are one.”
John 10:30 KJV
He is one he is not three like man has a body and a spirit and that makes him a living soul but it’s not three different people inside of Jesus it just Jesus and his spirit and then when he was glorified he sent the spirit into believers hearts by the gospel
I’m not sure you meant that or if it was just a reaction but wow I never knew you held this position that God the father Jesus the son and the holy spirit are three separate people
And yes brother my position isn that God is a spirit like it says , and jesus is God in the flesh like it says and he sends his spirit to believers like it says and I don’t see that as three different people but one person who created all things then later became flesh and redeemed all thkngs the. Returned to his glory from before the world began
brother are you sure you mean to say this ? This doesn’t sound like you
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.”
1 John 5:7 KJV
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
Genesis 1:1 KJV
what im saying is Jesus is who is being called God right there he is the creator and his spirit is what moves and creates when he speaks
“And the Spirit of God ( holY spirit ) moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, ( his spoken word ) Let there be light: and there was light.”
Genesis 1:2-3 KJV
All I’m saying really is now read the gospel of John and ask what it’s saying to you
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth.”
John 1:1, 3, 9-10, 14
What that’s telling us is this
“And without controversy ( whether you we I agree with Paul or not ) great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, ( Jesus the son ) justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
That’s why we see Jesus born as a man called Immanuel God with us it’s why the prophets said “ his name of the sin will be everlasting father the mighty God “
You should re consider brother being “ right “ isnt important enough to reject what’s plain
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
Isaiah 9:6 KJV
to say Jesus is not God the father is erroneous , say the holy spirit is not the spirit of Jesus Christ the spirit of God also is erroneous and would crater any other belief unto salvation
The New Testament is about revealing tonus our lord and our God Jesus Christ who is God the father manifest himself n the flesh like the Bible very clearly says and the Holy Spirit is his spirit the one that was in Jesus christ when he was born in the flesh of man
What I’m saying is Jesus spirit isnt a different independent person from him that seems pretty common sense type stuff it’s like me saying “ you and your spirit are two independent people but you work together “ that’s not the case you are try same person as your spirit it’s only a different form of who you are
Jesus is God fully manifest to all people the fulness of God in the form of a man filled with his living spirit before Jesus was born God had never had a body or been made flesh now we can know God because he’s revealed himself in the gospel
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
Colossians 2:9 KJV
That’s why this
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”
Matthew 28:19 KJV
is always this
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38 KJV
at he holt ghost comes along with Jesus name because it’s his spirit brother
“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
Galatians 4:6
The spirit of Jesus who lived on earth is the holy spirit, his spirit is the spirit of God there’s just one holt ghost it’s gods spirit
Jesus brother is God in his fulness
the father is the living spirit who was in him
“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”
John 14:10 KJV
God is one brother
“I and my Father are one.”
John 10:30 KJV
He is one he is not three like man has a body and a spirit and that makes him a living soul but it’s not three different people inside of Jesus it just Jesus and his spirit and then when he was glorified he sent the spirit into believers hearts by the gospel
I’m not sure you meant that or if it was just a reaction but wow I never knew you held this position that God the father Jesus the son and the holy spirit are three separate people
And yes brother my position isn that God is a spirit like it says , and jesus is God in the flesh like it says and he sends his spirit to believers like it says and I don’t see that as three different people but one person who created all things then later became flesh and redeemed all thkngs the. Returned to his glory from before the world began
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@seekingthemindofChrist
Consider …
John 8:13 "The Pharisees therefore said unto Him, "Thou bearest record of Thyself; Thy record is not true."
John 8:14 "Jesus answered and said unto them, "Though I bear record of Myself, yet My record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go."
John 8:15 "Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man."
At the time of His ministry, Jesus would not judge any man because He hadn’t gone to the cross yet.
John 8:16 "And yet if I judge, My judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father That sent Me."
Once again it is stated here that if you see the Son, you see the Father, for they are One.
John 8:17 "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true."
John 8:18 "I am one that bear witness of Myself, and the Father That sent Me beareth witness of Me."
It would have been very easy for Jesus to say, I am one witness and the person who sent me is another. ….but every detail of Jesus' life is described in the Bible—His birth, as well as every detail of His ministry. After all, it was the Father who gave the Prophets the words to write down, so it was He (the Father) who gave the testimony.
Wherever Jesus traveled, the sick were healed and even the dead were raised to life. Those who were with Jesus understood that God, not man, had performed the miracles—they knew that no man could take five barley loaves of bread and feed 5,000 people.
John 8:19 "Then said they unto Him, "Where is Thy Father?" Jesus answered, "Ye neither know Me, nor My Father: if ye had known Me, ye should have known My Father also."
Selah
Consider …
John 8:13 "The Pharisees therefore said unto Him, "Thou bearest record of Thyself; Thy record is not true."
John 8:14 "Jesus answered and said unto them, "Though I bear record of Myself, yet My record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go."
John 8:15 "Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man."
At the time of His ministry, Jesus would not judge any man because He hadn’t gone to the cross yet.
John 8:16 "And yet if I judge, My judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father That sent Me."
Once again it is stated here that if you see the Son, you see the Father, for they are One.
John 8:17 "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true."
John 8:18 "I am one that bear witness of Myself, and the Father That sent Me beareth witness of Me."
It would have been very easy for Jesus to say, I am one witness and the person who sent me is another. ….but every detail of Jesus' life is described in the Bible—His birth, as well as every detail of His ministry. After all, it was the Father who gave the Prophets the words to write down, so it was He (the Father) who gave the testimony.
Wherever Jesus traveled, the sick were healed and even the dead were raised to life. Those who were with Jesus understood that God, not man, had performed the miracles—they knew that no man could take five barley loaves of bread and feed 5,000 people.
John 8:19 "Then said they unto Him, "Where is Thy Father?" Jesus answered, "Ye neither know Me, nor My Father: if ye had known Me, ye should have known My Father also."
Selah
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The fact He never will speak of himself. Its always the Father always Christ. I do my best never ever to touch Him grieve Him. There are so many things we talk debate about that does in fact touch Him and we don't blink a eye
Oh wanted to add.. this was not about what the OP was asking
Oh wanted to add.. this was not about what the OP was asking
And here we go again.
Apparently, you and certain others here have a limited understanding of how the word "one" is used in scripture. It does not always mean a single person. Instead, it sometimes means one as in united. Two become one in marriage, for example, but they are still two distinct people.
And that is exactly what Jesus did here.
When he said, "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true," he was referring to such passages of scripture as Deuteronomy 17:6 and 19:15. "The testimony of two men" means two distinct witnesses, and those two distinct witnesses were Jesus and the Father in heaven because they are two distinct persons. One in purpose, yet two distinct persons.
John flat out stated this in the opening verses of his gospel which we are now considering.
John 1:1-2
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."
The Word, or Jesus, was with God in the beginning, and he was God in the beginning. Again, they are two distinct persons, yet one in purpose.
Finally, as I already mentioned in a previous post, Jesus prayed the following:
John 17:20-22
"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:"
Misapplying your definition of "one" to this portion of scripture, one would need to conclude that Jesus was praying for us to be God the Father because he prayed that we would be one even as he and the Father are one. Excuse my plainness of speech, but that is sheer lunacy.
When he said, "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true," he was referring to such passages of scripture as Deuteronomy 17:6 and 19:15. "The testimony of two men" means two distinct witnesses, and those two distinct witnesses were Jesus and the Father in heaven because they are two distinct persons. One in purpose, yet two distinct persons.
John flat out stated this in the opening verses of his gospel which we are now considering.
John 1:1-2
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."
The Word, or Jesus, was with God in the beginning, and he was God in the beginning. Again, they are two distinct persons, yet one in purpose.
Finally, as I already mentioned in a previous post, Jesus prayed the following:
John 17:20-22
"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:"
Misapplying your definition of "one" to this portion of scripture, one would need to conclude that Jesus was praying for us to be God the Father because he prayed that we would be one even as he and the Father are one. Excuse my plainness of speech, but that is sheer lunacy.
Why can't you get it around your head that God is indeed ONE and at the same time HE IS THREE -- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? That is three distinct divine persons.
And here is one evidence from Scripture that proves that you are thoroughly confused.
And Jesus [GOD THE SON], when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God [GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT] descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven [GOD THE FATHER'S VOICE], saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
People here are going round and round and round trying to deny this reality. And as a result they fall into all kinds of errors. Certain Scriptures MUST BE PROPERLY INTERPRETED to understand the union, the unity, the harmony, and the Godhood of al three persons. "I and my Father are One" means that there is absolutely unity and harmony within the Godhead. "I am in the Father and the Father is in me" means exactly the same thing.
And here is one evidence from Scripture that proves that you are thoroughly confused.
And Jesus [GOD THE SON], when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God [GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT] descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven [GOD THE FATHER'S VOICE], saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
People here are going round and round and round trying to deny this reality. And as a result they fall into all kinds of errors. Certain Scriptures MUST BE PROPERLY INTERPRETED to understand the union, the unity, the harmony, and the Godhood of al three persons. "I and my Father are One" means that there is absolutely unity and harmony within the Godhead. "I am in the Father and the Father is in me" means exactly the same thing.
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