Food for thought

[CorrectiveLens]

Acts 8: 9-24 Simon believed, and was physically baptized (probably with water), but did not receive the Holy Spirit because he was still in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity because his heart was not right in the sight of God. The motivation of his heart was greed and power. Peter and John were sent by the apostles who were in Jerusalem. It seems that the apostles were ruled by consensus and not by any one person in charge. Peter and John were given the power to administer the Holy Spirit by first praying for those in Samaria who believed (that they might receive the Holy Spirit) and then finalizing the process by laying their hands on them.
What was the purpose or significanse of laying of the hands. Might it be as a vehicle for the transfer of the Holy Spirit unto the one receiving, or is it something that was traditionally done and had a symbolic meaning? Maybe we have to remember that during the time of the apostles those that received the Holy Spirit received supernatural gifts that have now ceased and this power of laying of the hands to administer the Holy Spirit was one of them.
Numbers 27: 18 And the Lord said to Moses, Take thee Joshua, the son of Nun, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay thine hand upon him; And set him before Eleazar, the priest, and before the congregation, and give him a charge in their sight. And thou shalt put some of thine honor upon him, that all the congregation of the children of Israel may be obedient.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Christ came down and became Jesus to die for all but it is the Father who grants the repentance necessary for a person to turn to Him for forgiveness. I believe that it all starts with remorse and sadness for sins committed. The degree of the remorse and sadness depends on the person's perspective of his sins. If he considers his sins lightly because he deems them not grievous, his remorse and sadness will not be as strong as one who has committed an offense so grievous that his heart cries out to God in shame and sorrow. I don't think that God just randomly chooses people to save. He knows everything about each of us and knows who will respond positively to the degree of remorse and sadness needed to turn to Him for forgiveness. Matt 9: 12-13 But when Jesus heard that, He said unto them, They that are well need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice; for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. God the Father knows who to choose because He knows who will respond. To that chosen person will be provided the knowledge and belief in Jesus' death for the forgiveness of sins committed and the perfecting of the Holy Spirit ( of the Father and Son since both will dwell in our hearts) who changes our motivation from love of self first to love of God first and everyone else second. Obeying the Spirit of the Law means having every thought and action motivated be love. That is how we get perfected. Baptism in the Name of the Father occurs when we receive repentance from the Father. Baptism in the Name of the Son occurs afterwards when we believe in Christ's death for the forgiveness of sins. Baptism in the Name of the Holy Spirit occurs afterwards when the person is born again with a new heart filled with divine love for God and man. There is only one baptism and that is in the name of the Father because all that are in the family of God in heaven and on earth are there in His name. Eph 3:14-15 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Rom 5: 12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for all have sinned. For until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of Him to come. Death reigned from Adam to Moses even though sin is not imputed when there is no law. That is because Adam's sin involved getting the knowledge of good and evil which is inherited. All humans are born under this law of conscience (including Jesus) and we all sin (except for Jesus).

 

[Grace911]

The Heart
Gen 6: 5 The heart has thoughts and imagination
Dan 6: 14 The heart has motivation or direction
Gen 6: 6 The heart grieves
Gen 8: 21, 24: 45 The heart speaks to itself
Gen 18: 5 The heart can be comforted
Gen 45: 26 The heart can faint
Exod 4: 14 The heart can be glad
Exod 4: 21 The heart can be hardened ( made firm or unchanging)
Exod 25: 2 The heart has a will
Exod 31: 6 The heart can be wise
Num 32: 7 The heart can be discouraged
Deut 29:4 The heart can perceive
1 Sam 4: 13 The heart can be fearful
Conclusion: The heart is the consciousness that is in every being.

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jer 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Matt 7: 21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father, who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out demons? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity. My love for God and my brethrens in Christ require that I take time to meditate on what these verses mean. It doesn't matter that you believe and call Jesus Lord, that you prophesy in Christ's name, and in His name cast out demons and do many wonderful works if Jesus doesn't know you and you work iniquity. Jesus gets to know you when you are born again and the Spirit of the Father and the Son reside in your heart. You become part of the body of Christ and part of the family of the Father. You work iniquity when you don't obey Christ's commandments which is to love God first with all your mind, heart, and soul and everyone else second. You can't acquire this state of being without the assistance of the Holy Spirit of the Father and Son who both reside in us to fill us with the same love that they share. It is this love that perfects our motivation so that we are obeying the Spirit of the Law (which is easier to follow if you have that love, difficult if you don't).

 

[CorrectiveLens]

The one God of all is the only unbegotten because He has always existed. Chicken beget chicken, horses beget horses, reptiles beget reptiles. The offsprings are not clones of the parents but have their own features and characteristics, and will. Why is it so difficult to understand that Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father means that the Father existed before Christ was begotten. Isaiah 43: 10 ... before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. This verse is spoken by Christ because the Father has no beginning but apparently, the God (Christ) in Isaiah 43: 10 had a time that existed before Him which means that He didn't always exist in the past. Actually, the beginning started when Christ was formed out of the Father's essence. Alpha and Omega means the first and the last. The Father is the one God of all including Christ. Christ is the one God of all creation.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Five Major Problems with the Trinity by Sean Finnegan
In mathematics, for something to be true, it must always be true. To prove something false, all you have to do is provide a contradiction. Most people's belief on the Trinity is pretty much set so the plan is to be respectful of their belief and simply show that their belief is inadequate.
Our Strategy
Assume the Trinity is true and see from an internal perspective what problems there might be. People aren't willing to consider a new option until they are convinced that their old option is inadequate.
Problem #1. Jesus was a Jew who believed the same about God as other Jews. First century Jews did not believe in the Trinity. Their Scriptures proclaimed radical monotheism. The reason why the Jews do not believe in the Trinity, then or now, is because of the Jewish Scriptures that proclaim monotheism. Deut 4: 35, 39 To you it was shown so that you would acknowledge that the Lord is God; there is no other besides him. So acknowledge today and take to heart that the Lord is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other. In Mark 12: 28-34 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all commandments is: Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord; And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is this: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth; for there is one God, and there is no other but he. And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. Jesus confessed the Shema, the core creed of Judaism, without altering it at all. How would the Jewish scribe have heard this? As a Trinitarian creed? If the Trinity was true, Jesus would have corrected or altered the Shema. Instead, he praises the scribe.
Problem #2 The Trinity is never explained in Scripture. Sure one can pull together a verse here and there, in order to find support for an a priori theory ( not based on evidence). There is not a book, a chapter, or a verse that mentions or explains God as a Trinity.
What is the Trinity?
one God in three persons (one being or essence with 3 personalities)
co-eternal (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have always existed)
co-essential (they share the same essence)
co-equal (the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God)
eternal generation (the begotten Son has always existed)
dual natures of Christ in one person (divine and human)
in their union each nature preserves its distinct attributes (Jesus is all human and all God)
two wills in Christ- divine and human- never conflict
let's assume that the Trinity is true. The Trinity is like an oral tradition taught along side of Scripture passed down from the apostles (remember that we are assuming that the Trinity is true) from generation to generation, and it was never written down and no one really ever talked about it until the heretics came to challenge it. This is analogous to the Pharisees who made a big deal about maintaining tradition and were denounced by Jesus.
Is It Really Necessary If.....
it is never explained by Jesus
it is never preached as gospel in the book of Acts
it is never explained in the epistles of Paul, James, Peter, or John
it is just one theory among several which tries to explain God in light of Scripture

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Problem #3 No Jews who converted to Christianity ever challenged the Trinity (lack of controversy). If the Trinity is true, then Jesus and His apostles must have believed it and taught it. The lack of controversy amongst the Jewish Christians shows that the subject was never elaborated on because it did not exist in their minds at that time. The NT is full of controversies, from factions to speaking in tongues to impropriety at communion, over whether Gentiles could be accepted into Christianity, over whether justification came through the works of the law or by faith, etc. The Trinity was not one of them.
Problem #4 God is always addressed using singular personal pronouns (you). In our language the pronoun "you" can be singular or plural. In the NT the singular or plural of "you" uses different word forms. God is always spoken of using singular personal pronouns (He, not they). God almost always speaks using singular personal pronouns (I,not we, my, not our, me, not us(except the four "us texts" in which God is including others in an action (Gen 1: 26, Gen 3: 22, Gen 11: 7, and Isaiah 6:8))). Singular personal pronouns are used for singular persons. If God were a trinity, we should find plural pronouns, but we don't. Thousands of times we are confronted by the fact that God is a single individual.
Problem #5 Jesus was not omniscient God knows everything that can be known, but if the Trinity is true, then Jesus is fully God, and so He should have full knowledge. Mark 13: 32 But about that day or hour no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Jesus is confessing that there is something that He doesn't know.

 

[Grizz44]

Heres some food for thought: How can a brown cow eat green grass,give white milk and yellow butter? Lol

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Heres some food for thought: How can a brown cow eat green grass,give white milk and yellow butter? Lol

What goes into the mouth can be of different color and what is excreted can usually be brown. What is important is what comes out of the mouth because that would indicate what is in the heart. What is in your heart with your comment?

 

[CorrectiveLens]

For with Him were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things, to whom also He speaks, saying , “Let Us make man after Our image and likeness;” He taking from Himself the substance of the creatures [formed], and the pattern of things made, and the type of all the adornments in the world.
Ireneaus a.d. 120–202 Against Heresies Book IV Chapter XX
Ireneaus explains what the above quote means. The Father is a Spirit and His Son is full of the Father's Spirit. Making man in their image simply means filling them with the Father's Spirit. The creatures formed are Adam and Eve. They both received the Spirit of the Father. The pattern of things made are the ancestors of Adam and Eve that receive the Spirit of the Father and of the Son and will include people from all walks of life in human history. What do you think is meant by creating man after their image? This would also explain that not all man were created in the image of God. Cain was not. Adam and Eve were the first man and woman created in God's image. They were not necessarily the first man and woman.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

This would also give an answer to those who ask if Cain married his sister.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

"...Adam and Eve were the first man and woman created in God's image. They were not necessarily the first man and woman." (Ireneaus)

Interesting, Ireaneaus is "against heresies" and then states one of his own?:

According To God, about His Creation:

Gen_3:20 "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of​

all living."​

​

Amen.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Interesting, Ireaneaus is "against heresies" and then states one of his own?:

According To God, about His Creation:

Gen_3:20 "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of​

all living."​

​

Amen.

We are all dead in sin. Those who have life are those that receive the Father's Spirit. Eve was the mother of all living because she was the first woman to receive the Father's Spirit of Life.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Eve was the mother of all living because she was the first woman to receive the Father's Spirit of Life.

Where do you find this in Scripture? Eve was "the mother of all living" simply because the entire human race descended from Adam and Eve. There is no allusion to her having received "the Father's Spirit of Life".

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Where do you find this in Scripture? Eve was "the mother of all living" simply because the entire human race descended from Adam and Eve. There is no allusion to her having received "the Father's Spirit of Life".

Eph 3 : 14-15 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Paul bows his knees unto the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. The whole family in heaven and earth are they that have been baptized in the Father's name and have received His Holy Spirit.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Eph 3 : 14-15 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, Paul bows his knees unto the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. The whole family in heaven and earth are they that have been baptized in the Father's name and have received His Holy Spirit.

There's no need to take Scriptures out of context. This "family" consists only of those who are children of God. This has nothing to do with Eve and the human race.

 

[Magenta]

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
How important is it to understand the Trinity? To those that claim that the Trinity is a mystery beyond our understanding, from a brother who loves you, you had better do a better job of investigating before giving up and declaring " It's a mystery." Knowing the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is the basis for understanding Scripture. Jesus is the Christ, and Christ is our Lord, our God, and our Savior, but the Father is the One God of all (including Christ).

John 17:2-3~ You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

In my post #31 on this thread "The pattern of things made are the ancestors of Adam and Eve that receive the Spirit of the Father and of the Son..." should read " The pattern of things made are the descendants of Adam and Eve ..." I caught this error afterwards.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Please explain the analogy between the body, soul, and spirit of man and that of God. Did God have a body before Jesus was born? Making man in the physical image of God would mean that God would be the physical image of man which is impossible. The like image cannot be physical likeness. It has to be a spiritual likeness. Angels are spirits with a free will and were created above man. Are they in the likeness of God? Father and Son are both Spirits and what do they have in common? They both contain the Holy Spirit of the Father. Christ is full of the Father's Spirit. That is how He was able to communicate and get empowered by the Father. He was in the Father's image because He was One with the Father. God did not make all men in His image. Just those that he filled with His Holy Spirit in order to receive His communication and empowerment. When Adam and Eve sinned, God covered their nakedness and obviously told them about the coming savior who will free them from their sin. It was then that God instituted the sacrificing of a lamb to represent the belief and trust in this coming savior. Abel obliged by offering the lamb while Cain offered the fruit of His labor. That is why Cain's gift was rejected by God. What was Cain's punishment? Gen 4: 16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. The Lord is present when His Holy Spirit is present. Cain going out from the presence of the Lord means that Cain was no longer filled with the Holy Spirit and was no longer in the image of God but wandered out on his own to live with others who also were not filled with the Holy Spirit. In Gen 4: 25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bore a son, and called his name Seth.
For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. Gen 3: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; The Savior was supposed to come through the seed of Abel, but now will be coming from the seed of Seth. Notice that both Cain and Abel were both living with their parents. Neither were married and if they were their family would be living with them. Seth was the third son and he also had a son whose name was Enosh. Who was Enosh's mother? Something is not adding up right. Gen 4: 26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enosh: then, began men to call upon the name of the Lord. The reason that men started calling on the name of the Lord is because through the Holy Spirit, there was communication between God and man. Adam and Eve were the parents of all living because just like Abraham, they believed and it was counted to them for righteousness. We are born in the image of God when we are born again and receive the Holy Spirit of the Father and Son.