What confuses me the most is God told cain he could rule over sin.
The very next verse he kills his brother.
Could be a gap there to.
The very next verse he kills his brother.
Could be a gap there to.
In your opinion do you believe world is about 6000 years old
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i thought so, because it's only way your post i quoted made sense.
in stead of typing the 50 questions in my head, explain to me, how you think God went about creating Adam and Eve and other people. I actually am interested here.
וַיֹּ֥אמֶר יְהֹוָ֖ה אֶל־קָ֑יִן לָ֚מָּה חָ֣רָה לָ֔ךְ וְלָ֖מָּה נָפְל֥וּ פָנֶֽיךָ׃
And יהוה said to Cain,
“Why are you distressed,
And why is your face fallen?
הֲל֤וֹא אִם־תֵּיטִיב֙ שְׂאֵ֔ת וְאִם֙ לֹ֣א תֵיטִ֔יב לַפֶּ֖תַח חַטָּ֣את רֹבֵ֑ץ וְאֵלֶ֙יךָ֙ תְּשׁ֣וּקָת֔וֹ וְאַתָּ֖ה תִּמְשׇׁל־בּֽוֹ׃
Surely, if you do right,
There is uplift.
But if you do not do right
Sin couches at the door;
Its urge is toward you,
Yet you can be its master.”
וַיֹּ֥אמֶר קַ֖יִן אֶל־הֶ֣בֶל אָחִ֑יו וַֽיְהִי֙ בִּהְיוֹתָ֣ם בַּשָּׂדֶ֔ה וַיָּ֥קׇם קַ֛יִן אֶל־הֶ֥בֶל אָחִ֖יו וַיַּהַרְגֵֽהוּ׃
Cain said to his brother Abel … and when they were in the field, Cain set upon his brother Abel and killed him.
......is that the ONLY difference you discovered? These are many MANY more. Of great significance.Anyhoo, it is clear that this "Torah" you are using is nothing more than the Masoretic. And you are dead wrong. So good luck with that text which the legit scholars know is corrupt.
The problem is your awful lazyiness. Did you actually read what I posted? No. And neither did anyone else but me.
Here it is again.
https://www.barrysetterfield.org/Genesis_1-11/part_14_genealogies.html
And yes, the book of Judges undoubtedly counts off the 113 out-of-fellowship years. But you are far too lazy to read this either!
https://av1611.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23974&postcount=4
So enjoy your blubbering about the Torah. I asked for a link to the text and you delivered......NOTHING.
Whereas I HAVE delivered the goods!
genesis 4 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”
Last sentence reads
God told cain he could rule over sin.
Very next sentence Cain kills his brother
8 Now Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let’s go out to the field.”[d] While they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.
Here you go genius.....
"Compare the chronology of the two passages. The passages are both literal and historical. There is nothing poetic or symbolic about them. What is the number of years they each give for the history of Israel from the Exodus to the 4th year of Solomon? 1 Kings 6:1 gives the period as 480 years. Let us notice how many years Paul gives for the same period:
1. 40 years - wilderness (Acts 13:18) 2. 450 years - period of various judges - including Joshua and elders (Acts 13:20) 3._______ Samuel (Acts 13:20) 4. 40 years - Saul (Acts 13:21) 5. _______ David (Acts 13:22) 6. _______ Solomon until temple The amount of years Paul supplies in the text are as follows: 40 + 450 + 40 = 530 years.
Already there is an apparent problem, and we have not even filled in the spaces Paul left blank! 1st Kings gives the same time period as only 480 years. But let's go ahead and add the missing numbers. The time we are calculating extends from the Exodus to the 4th year of Solomon when they began to build the temple:
1. We must include 3 years for Solomon's reign until the temple. (1Kings 6:1) 2.Before Solomon, David reigned 40 years. (1Kings 2:11, Acts 13:22) 3. Notice Acts 13:20 says that the 450 years extends "until" Samuel the prophet. We find how long Samuel judged Israel in 1 Samuel 7:2. It was a period of 20 years. The total for the above is 63 years. Therefore, to the 530 years of Paul, we must add the total from the extra periods he left blank. 530 (years Paul listed) + 63 (years given in O.T. that Paul left blank) = 593 years.
Therefore, as we take the amount of years Paul did reveal, and add to them the numbers of years he did not directly mention, we have a total of 593 years. 1st Kings 6:12 gives the same period only 480 years: 593 - 480 = 113 years
And if you care to notice, 111 of these "out of fellowship" years are duly noted in Judges. But I will let you read about that.
Anyhoo, it is clear that this "Torah" you are using is nothing more than the Masoretic. And you are dead wrong. So good luck with that text which the legit scholars know is corrupt.
The problem is your awful lazyiness. Did you actually read what I posted? No. And neither did anyone else but me.
Here it is again.
https://www.barrysetterfield.org/Genesis_1-11/part_14_genealogies.html
And yes, the book of Judges undoubtedly counts off the 113 out-of-fellowship years. But you are far too lazy to read this either!
https://av1611.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23974&postcount=4
So enjoy your blubbering about the Torah. I asked for a link to the text and you delivered......NOTHING.
Whereas I HAVE delivered the goods!
you wrote ^ all of that to prove your ignorance even more?
you only mentioned the Flood/Abraham's Death. Genesis. i only used the Book of Bereshit. only took One Book to prove you wrong!
the book of bereshit ?? That sounds grizzly
Are you sure you've spelt that right
Your calculations are wrong proving that whatever it is, its useless as far as rightly comprehending the correct dates.
Not only that, you need to post EXACTLY how you are calculating. Which Barry does.
And a flood date of 2100-ish BC is laughably outrageous. There is TONS of irrefutable evidence to defy that absurd date.
And I am AGAIN begging you to POST A LINK to this "Torah" you are using. So that I can prove that it is nothing more than a copy of the Masoretic.
i've seen literally 20 errors but let's examine who the 40 years is about:
20 for about four hundred and fifty years. And after this he gave judges till Samuel the prophet,
21 And after that they asked for a king; and God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, forty years;
22 and he removed him and raised up for them David as a king; to whom he also gave testimony: I have found David the son of Jesse, a man according to my heart, who shall do all my will.
you are adding David, when David's years are not mentioned + Solomon's?
yeah, i've seen enough of this...
Not knowing that David ruled for 40 years makes you are a hopeless hack. I mean the specific verses are noted and you are too dumb or ignorant to read them. And every legit Christian knows David ruled for 40 years. And you are fired. Bye bye.
interjecting years to David and quoting Scripture that does not back what you say is MISLEADING!
so, add Saul's 40 years, what happens?
and Samuel comes with Saul's Reign. that eliminates 2 sets of years listed.
and Samuel comes with Saul's Reign. that eliminates 2 sets of years listed.
20 for about four hundred and fifty years. And after this he gave judges till Samuel the prophet,
21 And after that they asked for a king; and God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, forty years;
490 years
450 Judges
40 Samuel/Saul
21 And after that they asked for a king; and God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, forty years;
490 years
450 Judges
40 Samuel/Saul
even to get the 450 years of Judges (410 actual years), you need Eli's 40 years.
that connects to Samuel for the 50 year period between Eli and king Saul
Saul ruled 40 years.
540 years
that connects to Samuel for the 50 year period between Eli and king Saul
Saul ruled 40 years.
540 years
Probably a better way to explain the gap theory, would be the amount of scriptures that are cut short to get to a point.
It's almost like God doesn't want to tell you the life story for each event, and just gets to the point.
It's almost like God doesn't want to tell you the life story for each event, and just gets to the point.
tut tut you had another option it can also be referred to as the book of Bereshith,
All of this is dead easy. If anyone has the ABILITY to disprove these calculations......please exert yourself.
1) A base-line is needed to anchor any scheme of chronology: a date upon which everyone agrees. One date that is usually uncontroverted is the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon in 586 BC ± 1 year. There in Babylon as a captive, the prophet Ezekiel in 4:1-5 records that Israel's idolatry had lasted 390 years from the kingdom division unto the fall of Jerusalem. This places the division of the kingdom as 976 BC ± 1 year at Solomon's death.
2) Now Solomon reigned for 40 years, and the Temple building started in his 4th year. If 36 years are now added to 976 BC, the date for the commencement of the Temple becomes 1012 BC
3) 40 years - wilderness (Acts 13:18) 2. 450 years - period of various judges - including Joshua and elders (Acts 13:20) 3._______ Samuel (Acts 13:20) 4. 40 years - Saul (Acts 13:21) 5. _______ David (Acts 13:22) 6. _______ Solomon until temple The amount of years Paul supplies in the text are as follows: 40 + 450 + 40 = 530 years.
Already there is an apparent problem, and we have not even filled in the spaces Paul left blank! 1st Kings gives the same time period as only 480 years. But let's go ahead and add the missing numbers. The time we are calculating extends from the Exodus to the 4th year of Solomon when they began to build the temple:
We must include 3 years for Solomon's reign until the temple. (1Kings 6:1) 2.Before Solomon, David reigned 40 years. (1Kings 2:11, Acts 13:22) 3. Notice Acts 13:20 says that the 450 years extends "until" Samuel the prophet. We find how long Samuel judged Israel in 1 Samuel 7:2. It was a period of 20 years. The total for the above is 63 years. Therefore, to the 530 years of Paul, we must add the total from the extra periods he left blank. 530 (years Paul listed) + 63 (years given in O.T. that Paul left blank) = 593 years.
4) We are now in a position to move one step further back in our chronological system. The date of the Exodus can be obtained by adding 593 years to 1012 BC. This gives a result of 1605 BC (+/-6 years).
5) Given the date for the Exodus of 1605 BC ± 6 years, we can now add the 430 years with a clear conscience to obtain the entry of Jacob (Israel) into Egypt in 2035 BC ± 6 years when Jacob was 130 years old (Genesis 47:9). Note that the entry would have been some time in April from the Passover celebration that came 430 years later. Jacob was therefore born in 2165 BC. Since Isaac was 60 years old when Jacob was born, and Abraham was 100 when Isaac was born, we backtrack 160 years from Jacob's birth to find that Abram was born in 2325 BC with an error of less than ± 10 years, and maybe less than ± 5.
1) A base-line is needed to anchor any scheme of chronology: a date upon which everyone agrees. One date that is usually uncontroverted is the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon in 586 BC ± 1 year. There in Babylon as a captive, the prophet Ezekiel in 4:1-5 records that Israel's idolatry had lasted 390 years from the kingdom division unto the fall of Jerusalem. This places the division of the kingdom as 976 BC ± 1 year at Solomon's death.
2) Now Solomon reigned for 40 years, and the Temple building started in his 4th year. If 36 years are now added to 976 BC, the date for the commencement of the Temple becomes 1012 BC
3) 40 years - wilderness (Acts 13:18) 2. 450 years - period of various judges - including Joshua and elders (Acts 13:20) 3._______ Samuel (Acts 13:20) 4. 40 years - Saul (Acts 13:21) 5. _______ David (Acts 13:22) 6. _______ Solomon until temple The amount of years Paul supplies in the text are as follows: 40 + 450 + 40 = 530 years.
Already there is an apparent problem, and we have not even filled in the spaces Paul left blank! 1st Kings gives the same time period as only 480 years. But let's go ahead and add the missing numbers. The time we are calculating extends from the Exodus to the 4th year of Solomon when they began to build the temple:
We must include 3 years for Solomon's reign until the temple. (1Kings 6:1) 2.Before Solomon, David reigned 40 years. (1Kings 2:11, Acts 13:22) 3. Notice Acts 13:20 says that the 450 years extends "until" Samuel the prophet. We find how long Samuel judged Israel in 1 Samuel 7:2. It was a period of 20 years. The total for the above is 63 years. Therefore, to the 530 years of Paul, we must add the total from the extra periods he left blank. 530 (years Paul listed) + 63 (years given in O.T. that Paul left blank) = 593 years.
4) We are now in a position to move one step further back in our chronological system. The date of the Exodus can be obtained by adding 593 years to 1012 BC. This gives a result of 1605 BC (+/-6 years).
5) Given the date for the Exodus of 1605 BC ± 6 years, we can now add the 430 years with a clear conscience to obtain the entry of Jacob (Israel) into Egypt in 2035 BC ± 6 years when Jacob was 130 years old (Genesis 47:9). Note that the entry would have been some time in April from the Passover celebration that came 430 years later. Jacob was therefore born in 2165 BC. Since Isaac was 60 years old when Jacob was born, and Abraham was 100 when Isaac was born, we backtrack 160 years from Jacob's birth to find that Abram was born in 2325 BC with an error of less than ± 10 years, and maybe less than ± 5.
"Is It Really 430 Years?
Then there is the late Christian addition to the problem on the basis of Paul's statement in Galatians 3. There we find that a total of 430 years elapsed from the confirmation of the Abrahamic Covenant to the giving of the Law at Sinai immediately following the Exodus. The issue turns on when the confirmation of this Covenant was made. Some take the 430 years from Abraham's entry into Canaan at age 75. This subtracts 215 years from the Egyptian Sojourn, which in turn leaves only 215 years for their time in Egypt. That allows just 144 years from Joseph's death to the Exodus, Alternatively, others date the 430 years from the Circumcision Covenant when Abraham was 99. This deletes 191 years, leaving 239 years in Egypt, with 168 years from the death of Joseph to the Exodus.
Moses Had Egyptian Records Of Israel's Entry
However, these solutions to the problem contradict the words of the LORD to Abraham about 400 years of affliction under one nation. In fact they compound the problem since the Children of Israel were not afflicted during the reign of Joseph. Neither were Abraham, Isaac and Jacob afflicted in the Land of Canaan. There is also the problem of how 70 children of Israel became more than 2 million in just 150 years from Joseph's death to the Exodus numbering which is related to the number of Moses' cousins.
Additionally, Moses stated that the Exodus from Egypt occurred 'on the selfsame day ' that the children of Israel went in to Egypt. It would be difficult to pinpoint an exact day when Abraham entered into Canaan as one solution requires, and Canaan is not Egypt. Nor is Abraham to be confused with the Children of Israel. Remember! Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and had access to all extant records in Egypt. He would therefore be well aware of the precise time when Israel (Jacob) and his family arrived there.
What Did Paul Say In Galatians 3?
As stated in paragraph (e), the issue turns on when the Covenant was confirmed. The answer to the problem may be found by comparing Genesis 15 and 46:2-4 with Galatians 3:16-17. In Gal.3:16, the original covenant given to Abram in Genesis 15 is definitely in view. Indeed, Genesis 15:5 is quoted in Galatians 3:16. This was the one specific occasion when the Egyptian Sojourn and Exodus were promised. Galatians 3:17 goes on to refer to the CONFIRMATION of that Covenant, not to its original giving. There is only one other instance when God actually confirmed and restated these same Sojourn details with a patriarch as Galatians 3:17 requires.
The Covenant Sojourn Was Confirmed With Jacob
God appeared to Jacob on six occasions. God's sixth and final appearance to Jacob is recorded in Genesis 46:2-4, just as Israel was setting out from Canaan to go into Egypt. There the Egyptian Sojourn was confirmed, as was the making of a great nation, which would afterwards return to the Promised Land that Jacob was leaving. This was the same as God's original Promise to Abraham. Consequently, this was the required confirmation of that Promise to Jacob (Israel). The Galatian text states that this confirmation was given 430 years before the reception of the Law at Sinai, just after the Exodus. On this basis, the Sojourn indeed lasts 430 years exactly. God's statement to Abraham, the plain record of Moses, and Paul's Galatian comments are then in entire harmony."
Then there is the late Christian addition to the problem on the basis of Paul's statement in Galatians 3. There we find that a total of 430 years elapsed from the confirmation of the Abrahamic Covenant to the giving of the Law at Sinai immediately following the Exodus. The issue turns on when the confirmation of this Covenant was made. Some take the 430 years from Abraham's entry into Canaan at age 75. This subtracts 215 years from the Egyptian Sojourn, which in turn leaves only 215 years for their time in Egypt. That allows just 144 years from Joseph's death to the Exodus, Alternatively, others date the 430 years from the Circumcision Covenant when Abraham was 99. This deletes 191 years, leaving 239 years in Egypt, with 168 years from the death of Joseph to the Exodus.
Moses Had Egyptian Records Of Israel's Entry
However, these solutions to the problem contradict the words of the LORD to Abraham about 400 years of affliction under one nation. In fact they compound the problem since the Children of Israel were not afflicted during the reign of Joseph. Neither were Abraham, Isaac and Jacob afflicted in the Land of Canaan. There is also the problem of how 70 children of Israel became more than 2 million in just 150 years from Joseph's death to the Exodus numbering which is related to the number of Moses' cousins.
Additionally, Moses stated that the Exodus from Egypt occurred 'on the selfsame day ' that the children of Israel went in to Egypt. It would be difficult to pinpoint an exact day when Abraham entered into Canaan as one solution requires, and Canaan is not Egypt. Nor is Abraham to be confused with the Children of Israel. Remember! Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and had access to all extant records in Egypt. He would therefore be well aware of the precise time when Israel (Jacob) and his family arrived there.
What Did Paul Say In Galatians 3?
As stated in paragraph (e), the issue turns on when the Covenant was confirmed. The answer to the problem may be found by comparing Genesis 15 and 46:2-4 with Galatians 3:16-17. In Gal.3:16, the original covenant given to Abram in Genesis 15 is definitely in view. Indeed, Genesis 15:5 is quoted in Galatians 3:16. This was the one specific occasion when the Egyptian Sojourn and Exodus were promised. Galatians 3:17 goes on to refer to the CONFIRMATION of that Covenant, not to its original giving. There is only one other instance when God actually confirmed and restated these same Sojourn details with a patriarch as Galatians 3:17 requires.
The Covenant Sojourn Was Confirmed With Jacob
God appeared to Jacob on six occasions. God's sixth and final appearance to Jacob is recorded in Genesis 46:2-4, just as Israel was setting out from Canaan to go into Egypt. There the Egyptian Sojourn was confirmed, as was the making of a great nation, which would afterwards return to the Promised Land that Jacob was leaving. This was the same as God's original Promise to Abraham. Consequently, this was the required confirmation of that Promise to Jacob (Israel). The Galatian text states that this confirmation was given 430 years before the reception of the Law at Sinai, just after the Exodus. On this basis, the Sojourn indeed lasts 430 years exactly. God's statement to Abraham, the plain record of Moses, and Paul's Galatian comments are then in entire harmony."