Christ kept the Law of Moses, so....

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Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Simple: attempting to be right with God means either trusting in Christ or following the law perfectly and completely. Since the latter is impossible, the only rational choice is trusting in Christ. That is consistent with the law being both "fulfilled" and "abolished".
So in your view the 2 terms are synonymous?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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So in your view the 2 terms are synonymous?
No, definitely not! Christ fulfilled the law. He did not need to abolish it because it was fulfilled. However, in terms of Christian practice, the effect is the same: we are not under the law.

The analogy of the mortgage is relevant here: when your house mortgage is fully paid (fulfilled), you don't keep making payments on it. The same is true if your mortgage were forgiven (abolished); you would not continue to make payments.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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No, definitely not! Christ fulfilled the law. He did not need to abolish it because it was fulfilled. However, in terms of Christian practice, the effect is the same: we are not under the law.

The analogy of the mortgage is relevant here: when your house mortgage is fully paid (fulfilled), you don't keep making payments on it. The same is true if your mortgage were forgiven (abolished); you would not continue to make payments.
Thanks for sharing.
 

Grace911

Active member
Nov 11, 2018
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Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Strong's G4137
plēroō
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.


The faulty logic is that fulfilled and abolished means the same thing. In Luke 21:24 that would mean that the Gentiles are abolished.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy G2647the law, or the prophets: I am NOT come to destroy G2647, but to fulfil G4137.

G2647
kataluō
From G2596 and G3089; to loosen down (disintegrate), that is, (by implication) to demolish (literally or figuratively); specifically (compare G2646) to halt for the night: - destroy, dissolve, be guest, lodge, come to nought, overthrow, throw down.


Mar 14:49 I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.Strong's G4137

Or in the case of the faulty logic "the scriptures must be destroyed". G2647

destroyed/abolished and fulfilled mean two different things and are in no way alike or saying the same thing. That is just foolishness.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
Hebrews 13

20 Now may the YAH of peace, Who brought again from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an Eternal covenant, our Adonai Yeshua, 21 make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well pleasing in His sight, through Yeshua the Messiah, to Whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
 

Beckie

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Feb 15, 2022
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Jesus keep the law the proper way it was meant . Then this wonderful thing happened He became the Lamb of God. He was the perfect Sacrifice . Things changed We are saved by Grace His mercy not by the law.
 
Jan 29, 2023
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The law of Moses was abolished at the cross.


In the New Covenant, we are under the law of Christ, which is more strict and carry’s a more severe penalty than the law of Moses.


Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:28-29



Always remember that grace is something and someone.

Truth is something and someone.

Wisdom is something and someone…







JLB

Thanks for your comments. Just kicking the tyres here... According to your understanding does "the law of Christ" permit a man to dress as a woman?
 
Jan 29, 2023
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The Blue Letter Bible site has the original Hebrew and Greek from the various manuscripts. It uses Strongs and Lexicons and so much more. Almost everything is clickable to zoom in further. When you click on a Hebrew word number it brings up many things about the word as well as all the verses it occurs in. They are always updating it with new and improved information as it becomes available.

Gee thanks, but, the Blue Letter Bible is not a manuscript. Could you please tell me which manuscript you turn to for an inerrant original language reading?
 
Jan 29, 2023
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check this out.

even the New Testament in Revelations 9:11 tells us that Psalm 119:176 abad/avad H6 is translated wrong.

9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

adaddon means destruction which comes from H11 which is the intensive form of H6 abad/avad. That word is translated destroy and perish all through the OT. In Psalm 119:176 abad means destroyed and perished as that was His condition in that verse. He was the slain Lamb and asking to be raised through the stanza and the Psalm.

Hey that is interesting. Psalm 119 and Revelations 9:11. Lots of 911s. Could it be a sign? Amazing that the verse in the New Testament is correcting a mistranslation in Psalm 119.
To all in this thread... Is "Evyaniy" a bot? Thumbs up if you think this is probably true. Thumbs down if you think it's probably not true.
 
Jan 29, 2023
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any Bereans can use the Blue Letter Bible or their favorite Bible study site to confirm or disprove what has been presented. So far no one has presented any evidence from the original languages to disprove that Psalm 119 is indeed the Son's prayer for life and to be raised because of His obedience to the Law in giving His Life to save us as the Law required of Him. The Law also promised Him that He would Live and He trusted that promise as He says through Psalm 119 as He asked to live according to the promise of life to Him.
The reply button! It's in the bottom right corner and it is spelled R, E, P, L, Y.
 
Jan 29, 2023
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my understanding is that we should keep the law because Matt 5:17 - otherwise we can kind of do what we want - but is it all the old laws or just some is troubling
I'm with you. Mat 5:17-20 indicates that the Law is NOT abolished, certainly not until ALL is fulfilled. The term "law" that Christ is using in v18 is a contracted form of the noun phrase "the law and the prophets" alluded to in v17. In other words "the law" often refer to the books of the Torah but sometimes is used colloquially to refer to all of the Tanakh. Christ's subject is clearly the Tanakh because of His opening statement in v17. There are literally thousands of commandments and prophecies (taken together) that are yet to be fulfilled. Not fulfilled = not abolished.

Which parts are relevant to the Christian? First, rightly divide. The codified Law found in the Torah is divided for you by the Holy Spirit. The testimony (ten commandments) - Exodus 20; The Judgements (God's judgements) - Exodus 21-23; The Ordinances (God's instructions for temple worship) Exodus 26-31; Subordinate Judgements (Some from God, some from Moses) throughout the rest of the Torah.

In Ephesians 2:15 Paul tells you which part no longer pertains to you - Ordinances. Why? Because He literally fulfilled/satisfied the ordinances by becoming our new High Priest and by sacrificing Himself. An exercise which did not need to be repeated because of it's perfectness. Now, if you believe that God was manifest in the flesh to become the Lamb which takes away the sin of the world, righteousness is imputed to by Grace through faith. If you deny this then you remain in your sins since there is no alternative.

The ordinances persist even to this day to describe in more detail what Christ has done for you, especially on that cross. But this is meat for the maturing believer.

As to the other parts of the law they stand with all the authority they have ever had till heaven and earth pass by which time they will have been fulfilled. This is why the writers of the NT repeatedly reference these laws in teaching believers The Way.

Hope this helps.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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If you don't mind, I would like to test your hermeneutic. Under Christs law, written on our hearts, is it permissible for a man to dress as a woman?
Depends on whether the man is under the law of Moses.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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I'm with you. Mat 5:17-20 indicates that the Law is NOT abolished, certainly not until ALL is fulfilled. The term "law" that Christ is using in v18 is a contracted form of the noun phrase "the law and the prophets" alluded to in v17. In other words "the law" often refer to the books of the Torah but sometimes is used colloquially to refer to all of the Tanakh. Christ's subject is clearly the Tanakh because of His opening statement in v17. There are literally thousands of commandments and prophecies (taken together) that are yet to be fulfilled. Not fulfilled = not abolished.

Which parts are relevant to the Christian? First, rightly divide. The codified Law found in the Torah is divided for you by the Holy Spirit. The testimony (ten commandments) - Exodus 20; The Judgements (God's judgements) - Exodus 21-23; The Ordinances (God's instructions for temple worship) Exodus 26-31; Subordinate Judgements (Some from God, some from Moses) throughout the rest of the Torah.

In Ephesians 2:15 Paul tells you which part no longer pertains to you - Ordinances. Why? Because He literally fulfilled/satisfied the ordinances by becoming our new High Priest and by sacrificing Himself. An exercise which did not need to be repeated because of it's perfectness. Now, if you believe that God was manifest in the flesh to become the Lamb which takes away the sin of the world, righteousness is imputed to by Grace through faith. If you deny this then you remain in your sins since there is no alternative.

The ordinances persist even to this day to describe in more detail what Christ has done for you, especially on that cross. But this is meat for the maturing believer.

As to the other parts of the law they stand with all the authority they have ever had till heaven and earth pass by which time they will have been fulfilled. This is why the writers of the NT repeatedly reference these laws in teaching believers The Way.

Hope this helps.
So when will the law be fulfilled?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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No, definitely not! Christ fulfilled the law. He did not need to abolish it because it was fulfilled.
Actually Christ not only fulfilled the Law but He also abolished it. When the New Covenant went into effect the Old Covenant was rendered null and void. That is exactly what Paul is saying below.

2 CORINTHIANS 3: THE OLD COVENANT HAS BEEN "DONE AWAY" WITH OR ABOLISHED
1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament [Covenant]; not of the letter, but of the Spirit: for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance;
which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the Spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11
For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13
And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the Old Testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
Psalm 119:8

I will keep Thy statutes: O forsake Me not utterly.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
Psalm 119:14-16

I have rejoiced in the way of Thy testimonies, as much as in all riches.
I will meditate in Thy precepts, and have respect unto Thy ways.
I will delight Myself in Thy statutes: I will not forget Thy word.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
Psalm 119:22-24

I will delight Myself in Thy statutes: I will not forget Thy word.
Princes also did sit and speak against Me: but Thy Servant did meditate in Thy statutes.
Thy testimonies also are My delight and My counsellors.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
Psalm 30-32

I have chosen the way of truth: Thy judgments have I laid before Me.
I have stuck unto Thy testimonies: O YHVH, put Me not to shame.
I will run the way of Thy commandments, when Thou shalt enlarge My heart.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
Psalm 119:33-35

HE. Teach me, O YHVH, the way of Thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end.
Give Me understanding, and I shall keep Thy law; yea, I shall observe it with My whole heart.
Make Me to go in the path of Thy commandments; for therein do I delight.